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<pre><div><div><div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user9 arj] on Wed 19 of May, 2004 10:33 GMT pos Are there by the way any other changes to the other articles? A cursory read doesn't rev

[[User:arj|arj]] Posted by [[user9|arj]] on Wed 19 of May, 2004 10:33 GMT posts: 953 Are there by the way any other changes to the other articles? A cursory read doesn't rev

Posted by brablonau on Sat 07 of Jan., 2006 17:30 GMT posts: 80 arj Posted by arj on Sat 07 of Jan., 2006 18:34 GMT posts: 953

Posted by PierreAbbat on Wed 30 of Jan., 2008 04:32 GMT posts: 324 > How is the lack of pauses following BY treated in the morphology? How

...ortant to keep in mind that wherever a gismu appears, it could be replaced by any other kind of brivla. ...tly what it refers to, even if you know the meanings of “lemon” and “tree” by themselves. As English-speakers, we must simply know that it refers to “a

Copyright, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, ...ssociated research project having been called "Loglan" since its invention by Dr. James Cooke Brown in 1954. Statements referring to "Loglan/Lojban" refe

.... The Lojban vocabulary and grammar and all language definition materials, by contrast, are public domain. Anyone may freely use Lojban for any purpose w ...Supporter 1 - Word Lists and Language Description ($15) (followed by expiration issue #)

<center>Edited by</center> Edited by&nbsp;Nick Nicholas and John Cowan

.... The Lojban vocabulary and grammar and all language definition materials, by contrast, are public domain. Anyone may freely use Lojban for any purpose w We've been requested to more explicitly identify people who are referred to by initials in JL, and will regularly do so in this spot, immediately before t

...falsehood) of the results depends only on the truth value of the component sentences. For example, “James is a woman” are the component sentences.

.... The Lojban vocabulary and grammar and all language definition materials, by contrast, are public domain. Anyone may freely use Lojban for any purpose w Language Description ($15) (followed by

Copyright, 1990-1, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, ...rademark' claimed by The Loglan Institute, Inc., or to products identified by that 'trademark'.

...cu pu jai rinka so'i nu darlu''' — ''There've been a lot of debates caused by this artwork.'' '''bai''' <small>[preposition from '''bapli''']</small> — ''compelled by force ...''

Posted by pycyn on Tue 17 of Aug., 2004 16:10 GMT posts: 2388 Posted by pycyn on Mon 08 of Nov., 2004 23:18 GMT posts: 2388

...entice program 10 years ago. With any luck, we will have fluent Loglanists by year's end. We hope to prepare materials that will help the rest of you ach ...Primer. This ain't officially approved, but it has been thoroughly checked by several active Loglanists, including pc and Chuck Barton.

Posted by rlpowell on Mon 16 of Aug., 2004 01:41 GMT posts: 14214 Posted by xorxes on Mon 16 of Aug., 2004 02:17 GMT posts: 1912

Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Published by: The Logical Language Group, Inc.

...ary to logic, because every main verb has a tense marker built into to it. By contrast, Lojban brivla have no implicit tense marker attached to them. ...}, and can in fact always replace the {{vla|cu}} (although in very complex sentences the rules for eliding terminators may be changed as a result). In the follo

Copyright, 1990, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031-1303 USA ...eded to make correct decisions about tense, etc. that are required to form sentences.

<div><div><div><div><div>Posted by Anonymous on Mon 28 of Mar., 2005 20:09 GMT</div><div> although {noi djuno} would be by far better, of course.

Copyright, 1990, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Fairfax ...article by David Morrow on using Lojban in writing fiction, Lojban text is by Michael Helsem, including the first samples of original Lojban poetry, and

Copyright, 1988, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. '''Published by: '''

.... The Lojban vocabulary and grammar and all language definition materials, by contrast, are public domain. Anyone may freely use Lojban for any purpose w Language Description ($15) (followed by

<div><div><div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user47 PierreAbbat] on Sat 05 of July, 2008 05: ...to obtain a metal, not as a building material. I used {marmoru}, and for a type-3, I'd say {rokrmarmoru}.

Copyright, 1988-91, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, off languages, but by and large its adherents either abandoned the whole idea or

coi ro do. I am present. For the record, I go by "maik", "maiku", "maikxlx", "Mike", or "Mike S." on the Internet. I am her ...ere I usually read these). I do not know where law it may have been posted by others, though. When I checked nothing seemed to be happening on the LLG ma

<div><div><div><div><div>Posted by Anonymous on Mon 08 of Aug., 2005 23:17 GMT</div><div> "motivated by...", not "results in..."

...dunli, simsa,...) It would be easier to revise the list if you sort it by type signature rather than just alphabetically.For comparatives, the property is Exemplary sentences I might choose a couple from:

...d in special interest group (SIG) activities, and those who have evidenced by past contribution that they are capable and possibly willing to work to com ...phone numbers, and whether you wish them released. I do a lot of business by phone, and I expect others do as well. But I also have a personal standard

...at occurs in the middle of all two-syllable vowel pairs - it is pronounced by English speakers as an 'h', though it is formally defined as the 'rough bre This newsletter is an unofficial publication by and for the Loglan community. Ju'i Lobypli has no connection with the Logla

{{cite|book|Through The Looking Glass}} by Lewis Carroll. ...Lojban without distortion: the name “Nobody” would have to be represented by a Lojban name, which would spoil the perfection of the wordplay. As a matte

''By [[la nitciion]]:'' cuxna), and is the set of all entities in the world meant by an

Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Published by: The Logical Language Group, Inc.

Diagrammed Summary of Lojban Grammar Forms with Example Sentences most general pattern is covered first, followed by successive variations on

Copyright, 1988, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. Published by: The Logical Language Group, Inc.

<div><div><div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user6 xorxes] on Wed 15 of Sep., 2004 18:12 GMT ...Style_plain BPFK Section: Inexact Numbers]</div><br></div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user11 pycyn] on Tue 09 of Nov., 2004 01:12 GMT

==Sentences: I== {{ind|general-imported|sentences|separator for joining}} The word

...e has been superseded by the book [[Lojban_For_Beginners,_The_Book|"Lojban by beginners"]]! |type=notice

*:I (as self-appointed defender of Type 3 fu'ivla)... *:Are there people opposed to type 3 fu'ivla?

...jban grammatical forms called {{vla|sumti}}; the relationship is expressed by the Lojban grammatical form called a {{vla|selbri}}. ...various ways in which the place structure of Lojban bridi is expressed and by which it can be manipulated. The place structure of a selbri is a sequence

The Lojban vocabulary is founded on its list of 1350-plus gismu, made up by combining word lists from various sources. These gismu are not intended to ...ht mean. Adding further terms to the tanru reduces ambiguity in one sense, by providing more information; but it increases ambiguity in another sense, be

Sentences are generally characterized in most languages by the inclusion of a [[finite verb]], e.g. "The quick brown fox ''jumps'' ove A simple complete sentence consists of a single clause. Other complete sentences consist of two or more clauses (see below).

...uch pronouns or anaphoric expressions may also be called ''d-type'' or ''e-type pronoun'', depending on theoretical approach to [[interpretation (logic)|in The following sentences are examples of donkey sentences.

This document is largely supplanted by the Lojban Reference Grammar, Chapters [http://www.lojban.org/files/referen Semantics - the meanings of words, sentences, and expressions

Copyright, 1990, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, If your level number has an '*' by it, we need to hear from you. This indicates that we have had no contact fr

Posted by Anonymous on Tue 09 of Aug., 2005 00:09 GMT Posted by pycyn on Tue 09 of Aug., 2005 00:09 GMT posts: 2388

<pre>Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Published by: The Logical Language Group, Inc.

<div><div><div><div><div>Posted by Anonymous on Tue 11 of Jan., 2005 21:35 GMT</div><div> This can't be right. Subkinds of, say, Mr Dog exist by virtue of being

[1] by Jeff Prothero 2 A happened after B, and potentially was influenced by B.

...he double predicate is also needed to make it clear that whatever is named by la Uacintyn modifies la Loglytuan. Alternatively, I could have left the sec ...ame. Note to anyone reviewing things for me. Please try to get me comments by the weekend of 13-14 September.

...However, it is customary to set aside some of these letters for a second type of term, ''variables'', typically using letters from the end of the alphabe ...These following terms are officially to be recognized (as with predicates) by counting out the number of terms giving in the superscript of the function

In natural languages, especially those of Indo-European grammar, we have sentences composed of two parts which are typically called “natural language negation”. This kind of negation is difficult to manipulate by the tools of logic, because it doesn't always follow the rules of logic. Lo

<div><div><div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user2 rlpowell] on Thu 13 of Nov., 2003 01:36 G ...><div>[http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user9 [[File:avatar_arj.jpg|arj]]]Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user9 arj] on Thu 13 of Nov., 2003 08:58 GMT po

...ually expressed by the tone of voice when speaking, and (very imperfectly) by punctuation when writing. For example, the bare words ''John is coming.'' c ...n can also be written. Therefore, these tones of voice must be represented by explicit words known as “attitudinal indicators”, or just “attitudina

Major concepts of the language are introduced by saying as much with as little as ...etails are only mentioned or explained by their mere appearance in example sentences. Look carefully!

ENG: This is a collection of notes regarding Lojban prepared mostly by [[User:Gleki|la gleki]]. ...nnot search for love but you can search for "se prami", the creature loved by you or act in such a way so that you start feeling love.

Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. Published by: The Logical Language Group, Inc.

{{ma|ba'i|basti modal, 1st place replaced by ...}} ...|bai|bapli modal, 1st place (forced by) forcedly; compelled by force ...}}

<div><div><div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user11 pycyn] on Thu 12 of Aug., 2004 13:11 GMT ...plain BPFK Section: Grammatical Pro-sumti]</div><br></div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user6 xorxes] on Thu 12 of Aug., 2004 22:08 GMT

<div><div><div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user11 pycyn] on Fri 06 of Aug., 2004 21:56 GMT ...Style_plain BPFK Section: brivla Negators]</div><br></div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user6 xorxes] on Fri 06 of Aug., 2004 23:33 GMT

...s types, both the words that already exist and new words yet to be created by speakers and writers. * CC represents two adjacent consonants of type C which constitute one of the 48 permissible initial consonant pairs:

<div><div><div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user6 xorxes] on Wed 17 of Nov., 2004 21:08 GMT > ''"da type-of fa'o" is a very strange lujvo.''

...n sentence structures. The most general pattern is covered first, followed by successive variations on the basic components of the Lojban sentence. There ...id-qIuS}}. In Lojban we make no such grammatical distinctions; these three sentences, when expressed in Lojban, are structurally identical. The same part of spe

**I completely agree that Lojban has a type system, and I've treated it that way. In fact, my jvajvo rules rely heavily **because '''karce'''1's type is "vehicle", as is klama5's. Matching up sumti types is the basis for my j

...es in common between one variety of abstraction and another. We will begin by discussing syntax without regard to semantics; as a result, the notion of a ...re twelve such cmavo; they are known as “abstractors”. The bridi is closed by the elidable terminator {{vla|kei}}, of selma'o KEI. Thus, to change the br

...use of questions is to elicit information from the person being addressed, by indicating, more or less precisely, the information which the speaker (or w ===By purpose===

ka'u - KA-hoo - I know by cultural means (myth or custom) se'o - SEH-ho - I know by internal experience (dream, vision, or personal revelation)

...t? An argument, one of those things that fills the places of simple Lojban sentences like: There are five kinds of simple sumti provided by Lojban:

These are the grammar notes for the [[Lojban by Choice/LojbanPod lessons|LojbanPod newbie lessons]]. They explain several g As we discuss Lojban grammar, we are joined by a curious little alien, who wants to know everything about humans — inclu

...pointing at something. In Lojban, we can refer to what we are pointing at by using the pro-sumti {{vla|ti}} if it is nearby, or {{vla|ta}} if it is some :<code>This-thing such-that-(IT is-a-nose-type-of skin-hole) is-big.</code>

“fee” would more nearly represent the name used by Greek-speakers. Still, not all English-speakers know these English names.)

...kso|design goals}} representing all the different forms of expression used by mathematicians in their normal modes of writing, so that a reader can unamb ...as much detail as is currently possible) the mekso system. This chapter is by intention complete as regards mekso components, but only suggestive about u

The '''finite''' verbs are in bold in the following sentences, and the <u>non-finite</u> verbs are underlined: ::Verbs '''appear''' in almost all sentences.

...tive participants receive the longer journal, ju'i lobypli (JL) (available by subscription only). The Logical Language associated research project having been called "Loglan" since its invention by Dr. James Cooke Brown in 1954. Statements

[[fu'ivla|fu'ivla]] which, unlike [[Type 3 fu'ivla|type 3 fu'ivla]], do <u>not</u> have a rafsi prefixed to them to provide a seman See also [[Making type-4 fu'ivla]], [[Exhaustive list of short fu'ivla forms|Exhaustive list of sh

...[English grammar|English]] sentence "Please be quiet". Imperatives of this type imply a [[grammatical person|second-person]] subject (''you''); some langua Imperative mood can be denoted by the [[list of glossing abbreviations|glossing abbreviation]] {{sc|'''imp'''

<div><div><div><div><div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user2 rlpowell] on Thu 04 of Nov., 2004 23:26 G I'm of the opinion (caused by xorxes' arguments) that it should be as extragramattical (sp?) as it can po

.../how-the-enemy-came-to-thlunrana/ How the enemy came to Thlunrana, a story by Lord Dunsany] dedicating it to a new meeting of the [[LLG]].}} ...lation of the song [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amapola_(song) Amapola]] by Joseph Lacalle}}

...glish. However, in Lojban, the different ways of making sumti denote which type a sumti belongs to, so while the exact natures of sumti can be ignored in E ...ncept. Similarly, in an extreme inductionist viewpoint, such as that taken by Hume, all we humans experience are subjective impressions over time - a lon

<div>Posted by [http://www.lojban.org/tiki/user11 pycyn] on Mon 24 of Jan., 2005 17:17 GMT can be achieved by going after Mr. PA-Broda, the

...view -- chunks of prime matter, since all their properties are added later by the interpretation and the same set may be at the heart of many worlds, sub ...stricting consideration to some subset of the whole ("the real things") or by introducing as identity something other than the set of ordered pairs with

...we have sumti rather than nouns, so our equivalent of pronouns are called by the hybrid term “pro-sumti”. A purely Lojban term would be ...technical terms: The term “referent” means the thing to which a pro-sumti (by extension, a pro-bridi) refers. If the speaker of a sentence is James, then

...they? And so on through the bulk of philosophy). The disadvantage is that sentences that look very much the same behave very differently (even look identical, ...See “see” just above.) The different approaches seem to sort them out by type (as perceived within the language, say); in English, verbs of knowledge and

<pre>Copyright, 1989, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, Published by: The Logical Language Group, Inc.

...ellipsizing as many "zo'e"s as you can without changing the meaning of the sentences. (Reminder: only trailing "zo'e"s may be dropped in this way.) ***a. Rewrite the sentence "mi tavla da ti ma" in four different forms by changing the position of the selbri.

...in the reading of advanced text with large, complicated, or place mangled sentences, or just to explore structures of the grammar in an intuitive way. ...the tag shapes as well based on the type of their expected sumti, as given by their gismu definition.

'''Voksigid''' was a language project developed by a group headed by Bruce R. Gilson (together with Jim Carter, John Ross and others) in 1991-19 ...ained unfinished: only 256 words and affixes. There is the lack of example sentences. The definitions of the case tags aren't always specific enough to give the

Copyright, 1991, by the Logical Language Group, Inc. 2904 Beau Lane, these three sentences, when expressed in Lojban, are grammatically

Currently there is no way to specify multiple sentences in the construction ''subsentence'', such as inside a NU or a NOI. For exam This was born of an actual, spontaneous use of just such a construction by [[Michael Helsem|Michael Helsem]], uber-naturalist, at [http://groups.yahoo

...ur decades by dozens of workers and hundreds of supporters, led since 1987 by The Logical Language Group (who are the publishers of this book). 15:04 * llrcombs takes notes by turning on logging

...:yt-lightning talk.png|240x160px|a «lightning talk» introduction to Lojban by Timo Paulssen|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdlGxgKt7nc|thumb]] [[Image:yt-lesson in lojban i.png|240x160px|«Lessons in Lojban» by Dustin Lacewell|link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZjSTUK3hFI|thumb]]

...yle="background:#cff;"| 66 ||style="background:lightblue;"| 42 || B || tau by ...|| style="background:#cff;"| 98 ||style="background:lightblue;"| 62 || b ||by

''tanbau'' is a logical language developed by [[la tsani]]. ...ani (Jacob Thomas Erringon) with ideas from Lojban, Gua\spi, and Toan Dzu. By using the more powerful parsing expression grammar formalization, Tanbau us

This is a bidirectional Lojban-English dictionary, run by [[la durka]]. It works from a dump of [http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/ Jbovlas Run by [[la donri]] ([https://github.com/lojban/vlasisku/blob/master/vlasisku/irc.

...groups, the opposite seems to be the case - indeed, the subgroups defined by predicates turn out to be simply different selections, not subgroups at all ...lo broda}}, which is some group of brodas fixed for the context though not by the speaker. Its referents are the brodas themselves, not their singletons.

...nd more official and be more confusing). The factual side is (represented by) a set – all the real things that fall under (are specimens of) the speci ...s fixed for the context (one advantage of this is that we can explain {le} by saying it is a context in which the specimen relation breaks at a much lowe

...ll of these can be expressed with sentences (inordinately complex and ugly sentences, true) involving just the set of main verbs and cmavo (other than prepositi ...' plus (BAI-type modifier) Gotcha|''pe'' necessary for ''sumti'' plus (BAI-type modifier) Gotcha]].

#Autocorrection is when FA-less sentences like '''zo coi cusku mi''' are autocorrected into '''fe zo coi cusku fa mi' ...n activates only when you put a sumti into a place that can't contain this type of sumti.

...by English gloss, searching by rafsi, and listing the contents selma'o. -- by [[User:Tsani|Tsani]] This is available in Debian simply by installing the jbofihe package through apt-get. Ubuntu users might first ne

...it would refer to a non-person who doesn't exist (assuming that it's said by a real person... what if it was said in a book? Imagine the philosophical r ** Yet self-negating sentences are inherently paradoxical, yet the brochure says that "This sentence is fa

...rd that means "x1 (relation with an arbitrary number of empty spots marked by ce'u) is true with x2 filling ce'u1, x3 filling ce'u2, etc"}} {{irci|valsi|nolraitru {{=}} t1{{=}}n1 is a regent/monarch of t2 by standard n2.}}

...ectives work in general, and then learn the logical connectives themselves by heart. ...coffee'', just more complicated. The last two, TFTF and FTFT, can be made by prefixing '''.u''' with good ol' '''se''', which just reverts the two state

* I ei jdice lo du'u ma kau smuni zoi gy "by standard" gy pe lo gismu vlavelcki ...PA. Notice how {pi} and {ni'u} and {ka'o} and {ci'i} and {fi'u} are all of type {pa}, so they can go in a numerical literal between digits. especially {ka'

...n afford, while fixing things. (That things need fixing is beyond dispute, by the way.) It will not likely preserve backward compatibility with usage, as Lojban has two essential categories distinguished by its gadri: the individual and the mass. Though this distinction exists in E

...ice and systematic though, words with certain functions tend to be grouped by morphological classes, but exceptions may occur. !Defined By

...ee decades by dozens of workers and hundreds of supporters, led since 1987 by The Logical Language Group. Why should you learn it? ...ve power, opening up areas of thought that have not been easily accessible by human language before. Meanwhile, the formal rigidity of the language defin

> > oblgation by the speaker. sense. There is not much point in restricting '''ei''' to sentences

...finition (if "typedef" preceeds a definition, the symbol defined becomes a type rather than a variable : semantics change depending on the context, given t * English is not context-free. The way we parse/understand sentences depends on the context, either past or future. Consider this text:

| valign="top" |Morphological type: | colspan="2" bgcolor="#ffeeee" align="center" |'''Created by:'''

Skaldic Poetry and Lojban, by [[Athelstan|Athelstan]] Berfoetskald ..., or both to achieve a density or abstractness of expression unconstrained by form.

...vious reasons, "(number / lerfu-string) MAI#" can't be attached to PA# and BY#, and vocatives can't be attached to COI# and DOI#. ...e common than when we need them together (e.g. "abu za'ure'u cusku" or "ci by .e re cy", etc.) When we need to use digits in a lerfu-string, we can use p

* This meaning is the only meaning predicted by the baseline ...ogy ('''farna''' - ''direction'') of '''fa'a''' supersedes the pattern set by the other members of selma'o FAhA (Example 3b, not 3a).

...rtisfranks. and submitted to the LLG in A.D. 2017 and being further edited by users of this wiki. ...zed website in which everything is official and code-reviewed and reviewed by an official committee.

...s what is being emphasised: Is the hitting, or the event of hitting caused by you? In this specific case, though, that's just about the same thing. --> ...be'o''' - one instance of '''be'o''' for each selbri which has sumti bound by '''be'''.

...he accompanying considerations) compiled on behalf of the Lojban community by lai .krtisfranks. and submitted to the LLG in A.D. 2017. ...zed website in which everything is official and code-reviewed and reviewed by an official committee.

...then quote or underline (leftline?) the whole thing. But where should the type ('''pemcr'''-) go? :-( ...hough AUI seems to think it is, to the point of not distinguishing between sentences and compounds. But then it is basically German, an I-E for which this is o

...which can take a YACC-esque description of a language and generate random sentences, but it tends to never stop, as its recursive in its generation. ...nd a paper '''Generating Strings at Random from a Context Free Grammar''', by [[Bruce McKenzie|Bruce McKenzie]]. It can be downloaded from the University

...type of subordinate bridi. These are called ''relative clauses''. They are sentences which add some description to a sumti. Indeed, the "''which''" in the previ {{gl|melbi|x1 is beautiful to x2 in aspect (ka) x3 by standard x4}}

--Richard Darwin, edited by [[pc|pc]]. If Talen were really omniscient (as he implies by his use of "also") then he wouldn't need to ask, because he'd already know

...' plus (BAI-type modifier) Gotcha|''pe'' necessary for ''sumti'' plus (BAI-type modifier) Gotcha]]. ...an ''I make the dog eat if I give him food.'' and not ''I make the dog eat by giving him food.''? '''fau''' means ''if'' no more than [[ci'a|'''ci'a''']]

...t with LIP, examine the string of implicit closures which will be supplied by the parser, and try out the last of them as an explicit punctuator. If this ...uu alone causes mi to be interpreted as the second argument of tsodi. This type of closure is difficult to predict without either good knowledge of the gra

...tor: property/quality abstractor (-ness); x1 is quality/property exhibited by [[bridi|bridi]]. ...d abstractor (how); x1 is [[bridi|bridi]] as a non-specific abstraction of type x2.

****'''mo'i''' does not mix well with predicates that already involve motion by themselves. In '''mo'i klama''' you would be saying that the goer, the dest **Using '''mo'i''' with a predicate that already by itself describes a motion is in my opinion wrong, because you are then sayi

that (1) uses complete English sentences and (2) might be useful to that can be used to refer to all cmavo of that type, for consistency

...ting nonstandard stress, should represent their lerfu. "A" = "abu", "B" = "by.", etc. --xod ...but both are correct if spelled '''tirki,ie''', insofar as I can call any type 4 [[poo'ivla|poo'ivla]] "correct." - mi'e. [[.kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.]