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					   Number 10 - November-December 1989
				    Published by:  The Logical Language	Group, Inc.
				   2904	Beau Lane, Fairfax VA 22031 USA	(703)385-0273


     Ju'i Lobypli (JL) is the quarterly	journal	of The Logical Language	Group, Inc., known in these pages as la
lojbangirz.  la	lojbangirz. is a non-profit organization formed	for the	purpose	of completing and spreading the	logical
human language "Lojban".  The newsletter section of Ju'i Lobypli is separately published under the name	le lojbo karni
(LK).  This issue was supposed to be produced in September, but	the trip to Worldcon, our rapid	growth,	and time spent
on legal work all have contributed to delays.  This issue is now intended to be	mailed with LK11, which	will inciden-
tally save us some postage costs.  The added time also gave us a larger	quantity of Lojban writings to choose from, and
more time to ensure that what we are printing is correct.  We still intend to gain a month in publishing, but it will
apparently not be until	issue #13 that we will do so.
     Some 290 of you will receive this issue of	Ju'i Lobypli; we now have over 600 subscribers to le lojbo karni.
     As	noted in LK11, we have now received IRS	approval for Section 501(c)(3) status, and your	donations (not
contributions to your voluntary	balance) are tax-deductible on U.S. and	most state income taxes, back-dated to our
incorporation last year.  We will notify all donors at the end of the year of the total	deductible donations we	have
received from you.  Our	finances are still in bad condition: we	hope that a few	of you will remember us	in your	holiday
budgets.  We note for all potential donors that	our bylaws require us to spend no more than 30%	of our receipts	on
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						 Contents of This Issue

There is no news section in this issue,	since we are coming out	with LK11.  Our	major content this issue is Lojban text
(some 3200 words total), written by people other than Bob and Nora.  The key Lojban text is Athelstan's	translation of a
short story named "The Open Window", written by	British	author Saki.  We want to encourage Lojbanists to seriously
attempt	to back-translate and read the Lojban on your own, and have printed it double-spaced, included some guidelines
							      2


on translating and reading, and	also some word lists.  You will	have to	deduce the meaning of tanru and	lujvo on your
own, though.  We've provided guidelines	and word lists enough in past issues that most of you should be	able to	do this.
     This issue	also contains discussions of Lojban poetry forms by poet Michael Helsem	and Athelstan, of various
aspects	of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis and testing thereof, and some explanations of some cmavo that seem to be giving
people trouble.


						   Table of Contents

News Notes						      ---2
On Lojban Poetry
   'Skaldic Poetry and Lojban' by Athelstan		      ---3
   Michael Helsem on Lojban Poetry Forms		      ---4
le lojbo se ciska
   Guidelines for Understanding	Unfamiliar Lojban Text	      ---6
   A Palindrome	by Michael Helsem; A Lojban Aphorism by	Michael	Helsem	   ---7
   Self-Description by T. Peter	Park			      ---8
   A letter to Marcia Greenough	by T. Peter Park; Two letters to Deb Wunder by T. Peter	Park   ---8
   From	Genesis	by T. Peter Park
   An Original Science Fiction Story by	Jamie Bechtel	      ---9
   A Re-translation of a Paragraph by JCB in Scientific	American by T. Peter Park    ---10
   Roswell, New	Mexico,	1947 by	T. Peter Park		     ---10
   A Short Lesson in Office Politics by	T. Peter Park	     ---10
   A Syllogism by Lewis	Carroll, translated by Sylvia Rutiser---11
   The Open Window by Saki, translated by Athelstan	     ---12
Translations of	le lojbo se ciska (in order listed above)    ---16
   Retranslation of The	Open Window by Saki, as	translated by Athelstan	   ---25
Letters, Comments, and Responses: from Greg Higley; from various people	on '	---32
How Many Primitives Does Loglan	Need?, by Jeff Prothero	     ---35
Mini Grammar Lessons: On du; On	cu; On ke; On ti, ta, tu vs. vi, va, vu; On po'e, po, pe, po'u;
   On go'i vs. ti vs. di'u vs. la'edi'u			     ---37
On Sapir-Whorf
   LogFest Report by pc	and Athelstan			     ---40
   Discussion on Jim Brown's Sapir-Whorf Test in Loglan	1 4th Edition
      from Bob & Athelstan's Unabridged	Review		     ---41
      from pc (John Parks-Clifford)			     ---44

Mini-cmavo List	for use	in Translations			    insert


						       News Notes

     It's been less than a week	since LK11 went	to the printer,	but the	Lojban world keeps moving.  Bob	did another
radio interview	on 11 December,	with a British station:	'Atlantic 192'.	 We've received	a copy of the San Francisco
version	of the Oldenburg article.  It was somewhat truncated, so if we get to distribute the Washington	Post version
next issue, those who see versions in other papers may want to reread to see if	they missed anything.
     Bob now has a Usenet/Internet mailbox address, compliments	of Eric	Raymond, who has set up	his Lojban network with
about 60 names so far.	Eric is	a long distance	call, and Bob won't be checking	his mailbox very often,	so Post	Office
mail is	more efficient.	 But computer files, Lojban text, and articles for LK and JL can be sent now to
lojbab@snark.uu.net.
     Finally, Rick Harrison tells me that Alembic, listed in LK11 credits, is ceasing publication.

							   3


		     On	Lojban Poetry			    In languages that do not have stress as a distinguishing
							    characteristic of tone, the	syllable count in each line is
  We have comments from	two people on the subject of Lojban important.	Japanese haiku is probably the most well-known
poetry.	 Athelstan writes primarily on one form	of poetry   of these forms; it requires	no rhyme or meter; instead it
with which he is familiar:  skaldic poetry.  Michael Helsem has	exactly	three lines with 17 syllables in a 5/7/5
writes in response to the brief	comments I made	in LK10	in  pattern, with the added requirement	that it	demonstrate a
describing the article by Athelstan.			    particular 'balance' in harmony/disharmony of subject,
							    sound, and meter.
  There	is a question commonly asked of	us, not	really	      Of poetry's many forms, English end-rhyme	does not seem
relevant to Lojban, which we can answer	in connection with  especially suited for Lojban.  This	is but a guess,	based
the following article.	This is	'Does Athelstan	have a last on the limited number of gismu that	rhyme and the lujvo
name?'.	 The answer is both yes	and no.			    architecture that limits the variety of ideas that will end
  Athelstan's name comes from Old Norse; family	names were  in matching	sounds.	 Many other poetic forms may be	more
not used for identification in that culture.  Instead,	    apropos to Lojban's	sound and word structures.  In this
surnames would be granted, generally by	nobility, in	    article, I shall concentrate on the	Norse alliterative
recognition for	some great or significant deed,	somewhat    poetry of the skalds, and in particular the	drottkvaet, or
after the manner of modern honorary degrees.  In the ab-    court metre.
sence of such an honor,	different people with the same
first name would be distinguished by their place of origin  First some definitions:
or trade, a practice that eventually led to our	modern
practice.  Honorific surnames wouldn't be used in the same    The common unit of skaldic poetry	is the strophe,	or
way as modern family names, but	rather only in an appropri- stanza, which consists of four lines, or eight half-lines.
ate context.  Athelstan	obviously has a	place he was born,  Unlike much	of English poetry, these lines are usually not
but he does not	need this 'surname' to distinguish him from grammatically intact sentences or phrases -	sentence
others.	 How many other	people do you know by the name of   structure is independent of	line structure.	 In fact, such
Athelstan?						    poetry often has several independent 'sentence' thoughts
  But, in addition to a	locative surname, Athelstan has	    going at once, with	the harmony of sound helping the
been rewarded (by appropriate authorities familiar with	the listener piece the structures together.
tradition) with	two different honorific	surnames for	      Each line	consists of two	half-lines.  There is an odd
noteworthy deeds in unrelated fields (Athelstan	is a person half-line with exactly six syllables, three	of which are
of diverse talents).  The stories are long, and	perhaps	I   accented.  Each odd	half-line is followed by an even half-
can talk Athelstan into	writing	of them	(in Lojban) for	    line, also with exactly six	syllables, three accented.  Un-
later issues; he tells these stories quite interestingly,   like English end-rhyme forms, all alliteration and rhyme
in the old bardic tradition.  But in any case, he uses them takes place	in the accented	syllables, or beats.  I	will
only in	the appropriate	context.  The following	article	is  for	this discussion	use the	most common stress pattern,
one such place,	since one of his honorific surnames stems   trochaic.  That is,	each beat is followed by an unstressed
from his demonstrated mastery of skaldic forms.	 (T. Peter  syllable.
Park uses the other honorific surname in his description of   Two syllables alliterate if their	initial	sounds are
the New	York Lojban meeting, printed in	LK11.)		    alike:  the	words 'fight', 'far' and 'phantasm' alliterate.
							    Any	two syllables that begin with vowels also alliterate.
							    In each line of skaldic poetry, exactly two	beats in the
		 Skaldic Poetry	and Lojban		    odd	half-line and the first	beat in	the even half-line
		 by Athelstan B‚rfoetskald		    alliterate.
							      A	full rhyme is one that shares the same vowel and final
  English speakers may be unaware of the wealth	of possible consonant sounds in	one syllable:  'rat'/'cat', 'rut'/'cut'
forms of poetry	that exist in the world's literature.  Most and	'rough'/'cuff' are full	rhymes.	 A half	rhyme differs
English	poetry is dominated by a single	form, end-rhyme, in from a full	rhyme in that the vowel	sound must be
which the final	word of	each line rhymes with one or more   different:	'rat'/'cut', 'rut'/'cat' and 'rough'/'cough'
other lines; the exact lines in	a stanza which are paired   are	half rhymes.  In each line of skaldic poetry, a	half
or grouped in rhyme differ according the specific form,	    rhyme appears in exactly two of the	three beats in the odd
giving us such end-rhyme forms as doggerel, limericks, and  half-line, including the third beat.  In the even half-
sonnets.  End-rhyme is often elaborated	by requiring	    line, a full rhyme appears in exactly two beats, also
particular matching stress patterns in each rhyming pair or including the third, but the pattern need not be the same
group of lines.	 End-rhyme has proven less interesting for  as in the odd half-line.
modern poets, who abandon rhyme, stress	pattern, or both to
achieve	a density or abstractness of expression	uncon-	      This is an unfamiliar (and complicated) form to many, so
strained by form.					    I include here an English language example of a skaldic
  There	are many other possible	forms, including forms that strophe.  (It's not	really supposed	to have	great meaning
ignore rhyme and which count only stressed syllables	    in it - this is only an example.)  Please note that	the
(Germanic long-line, the form of Beowulf, is an	example).   last syllables of each half-line are unstressed and	so

							   4


neither	rhyme nor alliterate.  The alliterations appear	in  glish poetry gives access to (--my English skaldic verse
bold print, the	full rhymes in italics,	and the	half rhymes must seem totally twisted to anyone	who doesn't know those
are underlined.	 Vowel alliterations are marked	with a bold conventions).  (Or a tradition of broken utterance,	which
period.							    is haiku's,	as any literal rendering will show.)  Athelstan
							    is absolutely correct in perceiving	Lojban's consonantal
  Sing with me a song of				    richness as	the salient poetic character.  But that	applies
     soaring birds and words that			    only to its	core vocabulary.  Include all the function
  tell of hawks; The hall of				    words as they naturally occur, and Lojban has a greater
     heaven flows with prose of				    resemblance	to a pizzicato language	like Hawaiian or
  .owls	and .airborne furless				    Japanese, than to the surflike pounding of Germanic	lines
     .awful bats with hats on.				    in Alliterative-Accentual.	Another	thing:	it takes many
  Night	and day	are not	the				    near-synonyms to be	able to	say what you want and have it
     nicest times for rhymes' sound.			    alliterate.	 I don't foresee this ever being true of Lojban
							    unless it swamps its carefully-distinguishable word-hoard
  Strophes were	informally composed and	recited	singly or   with a ton of redundant imports...
in pairs, but more formal occasions demanded the long lay,    I	imagine	Lojban poetry will eventually create brand new
or drapa form.	This consists of twenty	or more	strophes,   forms out of its own vast uniqueness which is hardly
partitioned into three or more parts by	a chorus of one,    perceptible	yet to those who think in English (or other
two or four lines which	ended a	strophe	or stood alone.	    natural language) first.  I've got a few noodly intimations
  Skaldic poetry often used a figurative metaphor known	as  I'm	reluctant to pontificate upon before I can substantiate
a kenning, whose canonical English form	is 'x of the y'.    them with practical	excellence, but	I can say right	now
For example, "steed of the waves" is a kenning for 'ship',  that the "abstract ideas of	modern poetry" find a greatly
and "whales' road" stands for 'ocean'.	In some	drapas,	    expanded range in this language with few concrete noun-
kennings are all-pervasive and no thing	is directly named.  distinctions (names	of birds, flowers, and feelings), but
							    capable of phrases such as "mu'e laxyzva" -- "The
  I think that Lojban is well suited phonologically and	    achievement	of balance-presence" (which may	mean just
grammatically to the use of skaldic form.  Lojban gismu	are "poise", or	imply a	whole world of Taoist philosophy). --
trochaic in meter, and Lojban's	penultimate word-stress	    so naturally and yet so suggestively.
system is conducive to the regular patterns required.  The    I	guess a	lot of people still identify "poetry" with
large number of	independently elidable cmavo words allows   rhyme+meter, although almost no poets even attempt them
one to alter the rhythm	of the utterance to suit the form.  anymore outside of popular music.  For Lojban to be
Moreover, the morphology allows	us to vary the length and   shoehorned into existing English poetic forms is not quite
form of	a lujvo, allowing the poet to choose the word form  the	contortionist feat that	skaldic	verse would be,	but my
that best suits	the meter without changing the meaning.	    earlier point still	applies.  In addition, Lojban has few
  We have the ability in Lojban	to mark	a word as	    natural rhymes, and	hardly any 'good' ones at all.	'Love'
figurative in its use, and so we may use kennings at will,  (prami) rhymes only	with 'computer'	(skami)	and 'acid'
but we also have the option of redefining the grammar for   (slami), while 'desire' (djica) rhymes with	'differ'
the poem to treat all two word metaphors as kennings, and   (frica) and	-- too closely -- 'deceive' (tcica), for
may thus accommodate the all-kenning form as well.	    example.  Compare fire/desire or Schmerz/Herz et al...
  I shall attempt such poetry in the near future as my	    This is not	as bad as Esperanto, which rhymes Vulva	and
schedule permits, but I	put it forth to	all aspiring Lojban Gunpowder; still, artificial languages seem	uniformly
poets to explore this and other	alliterative poetry forms.  unfortunate	in this	respect.  More sophisticated devices,
In addition to formal skaldic poetry, there may	be other    like slant-rhyme, assonance, and particularly the
patterns, more or less structured, that	will project the    combination	of an initial and a medial consonance (muzga
full color of Lojban's expressive nature.  A new language   zgana; lujvo jvinu), I suggest, are	well worth trying in an
calls for new ideas, and for the reexamination of old ones. irregular way.  But, to use	Pound's	nomenclature, Lojban
							    excels in aptness for meaning-subtlety (Logopoeia) rather
	   Michael Helsem on Lojban Poetry Forms	    than phonic	luxuriance (Mekpoeia) or pictorial
							    descriptiveness (Phanopoeia).
  ... Lojban poetry.  I	am eager to see	Athelstan's	      Lojban is	an athletic language; it stretches your	mind
proposal, being	a skaldic aficionado myself (albeit non-    with challenging concept-divergences and novel connections.
Norskophone), but I have grave doubts already.	(I do	    Making lujvo will probably be its first and	most popular
admire the grandeur of its absurdity --	akin to	one of the  word game always; just as Crosswords exploit the hodgepodge
projects to write quantitative verse in	English!)  Lojban   of English megavocabulary, lujvo involve the very quiddity
is a non-inflected language with numerous non-elidable	    of Lojban.	I predict that it will eventually become a
function words (at least in its	grammatically correct	    much-used source of	return-borrowings for many natural
form), whereas such rigorous modes of versification as	    languages, somewhat	as classical Greek has continued to
Drўttkvaett (or	haiku for that matter) require either a	    provide new	loans for scientific usage.
language that is inherently terse (i.e.	inflected), or else   One last thing.  I think there might be a	definite
a polyvalent grammar like the anarchical tradition of En-   limerick potential.	 Anapests seem to come easier than

							   5


iambs; and what	rhymes exist, have a quality that reminds   with embedded verse, as well as a frequently alliterative
me of a	triple rhyme in	English	-- as can be found in the   and	simply-rhyming prose.  I'll be trying to capture the
dustier	corners	of a rhyming dictionary:  mentor-centaur,   Arabic richness of pattern in Lojban, just as Burton tried
gurgle-burgle, muscular-crepuscular.  This is a	Special	    to capture it into English.	 As an example,	which helps
Effect,	like fireworks,	not the	constant recurrence of a    belie Michael's perception of a lack of synonyms, Burton's
mild harmony (like rhyme in Italian or Spanish)...	    English translation	of a vocative (near the	beginning of
							    the	first story) reads "O King of the time and Caliph of
Athelstan responds with	two notes:			    the	tide ..."; the "tide" here obviously means "season", as
  1. Germanic languages	were not as terse as they are now,  in "Yuletide".
precisely because they were more highly	inflected.  Latin     Lojban is	fully capable of expressing this parallel
and Greek were very highly inflected, and they are anything metaphor of	nearly identical meanings with two totally
but terse.						    unrelated expressions, just	as English does:  "doi nolrai
  2. There are usually several directions from which to	    co turni be	le temci be'o je catni be le cabna" (O
approach a concept:  function, appearance, resemblance,	    superlative-noble type-of [governor	of the time-interval
effects, etc.  Many gismu are also expressible as	    and	authority over the present]), and I even captured the
conversions of other gismu.  Combined with the further tool alliteration (which	is highly valued in Arabic poetry and a
of kenning description,	Lojban promises	as rich	and diverse feature that Burton	tries to emulate) at least as well as
a phonetic realm as is available in any	language, past or   the	English	does.  (I won't	promise	such successful	Arabic
present.						    poeticity in the rest of my	translation.)

Bob adds some other points:				      In the final analysis, both Michael and Athelstan	may be
  Lojban has more rhyme	capability than	Michael	indicates.  right.  We have to try new ideas and see what works	for
It is true that	there isn't much rhyming capability among   Lojban.  If	we can give rebirth to old forms that have been
gismu, but among lujvo there should be considerably more    lost to English, great.  If	people choose to develop a new
rhymes.	 After all, all	Lojban brivla end in a vowel or	    cultural form of poetry, this may even be evidence of a new
diphthong, and there are only so many possible endings.	    Sapir-Whorf	effect of a type never consider	by Jim Brown
  It is	true, though, that many	of the rhyming syllables    and	others.
would be based on sharing the same rafsi, leading to a lack
of variety of pure rhyming forms.  But moving beyond pure
rhyme, into Athelstan's	half-rhyme and alliterative schemes			 le lojbo se ciska
should allow Lojban to show great richness.  After all,
Lojban has a much more restricted set of permitted word		Guidelines for Understanding Unfamiliar	Lojban Text
endings, and a smaller set of phonemes,	than does English.
Since there are, at least theoretically, more possible	      Even if you only have a gismu list and rafsi indexes, you
Lojban words than English words, this suggests a higher	    should be able to usefully work on translating the
density	of rhymes and near-rhymes than English has.  Time   following.	With simple cmavo lists, you can probably get
will tell if this is a real feature of the language, and    most of the	meaning, while if you've studied the textbook
not a false extrapolation.				    lessons, almost all	of the texts that follow should	be un-
  Lojban has many non-elidable structure words,	but it has  derstood.
many elidable ones as well.  It	can even be said that	      This doesn't mean	that you necessarily can just read the
Lojban's optional tense	system is an elidable form of	    Lojban text	straight and understand	it.  There are some
inflection.  "pu klama"	can be said to be an inflected form tricks that	a new learner can use to maximize
of "klama"; however, Lojban inflections	are both optional   understanding.  This section attempts to explain the
and completely regular.	 It is unclear why this	would be a  technique that we had the Lojban class use in tackling
disadvantage in	poetry as compared with	inflected	    unfamiliar text.
languages, as Michael implies.				      You should not allow yourself to be hampered by what you
  With regard to sound and rhythm, I cannot say	whether	    haven't yet	studied, or what you don't have	lists for.
Lojban is more like Japanese than like German.	However,    Translate what you can, and	you may	be able	to interpolate
since Lojban is	a language with	stress-oriented		    the	rest.  Failing this, look at the literal and colloquial
pronunciation, one would suspect that rhythm, (as opposed   English translations in the	section	following, and try to
to rhyme) would	follow the strong-stressed patterns of	    figure out the function and/or meaning of the word or
Germanic languages, as opposed to the syllabic rhythms that construct that you didn't understand, before moving	on to
I believe are typical of most oriental languages (as well   the	next sentence.
as French).  The consonant clustering, is of course
reminiscent of Slavic languages; perhaps we should examine    Noting that all sentences	start with .i and that new
Slavic poetry forms to determine some additional possibil-  paragraphs start with ni'o or ni'oni'o, do the following
ities for Lojban.					    (the first two paragraphs of the English re-translation of
  I am not well-versed in poetry, but I	am going to be	    Saki in the	next section have been marked in the manner
getting	a bit of experience in devising	Lojban forms: the   suggested as a sample):
Arabian	Nights tales that I am working on are scattered

							   6


1. Put brackets	[] around each sentence	in the text.  Put   to start from the left, marking off	sumti.	If you come to
quote marks "" around each quotation (starts with "lu" and  a brivla that isn't	a sumti, it generally is a selbri.
ends with "li'u", or is	a single word preceded by the word
"zo" (which indicates single-word quotation).  Parentheses  4. Relative	clauses	and phrases help identify sumti, and
(mark them as such) are	indicated by "to" as the left	    are	sub-sentences and sumti, respectively.
parenthesis, and "toi" as the right parenthesis.  "sei"	and   4a. Relative clauses are attached	to sumti with noi or
"se'u" are another set of matching left	and right	    poi.  These	are embedded bridi sentences, so mark the
parentheses markers (indicating	a metalinguistic comment -  noi/poi as a left edge of a	bridi clause with a left carat
consider a sei/se'u comment as a parenthetical sentence	em- '<'.  By the grammar, you also know	that what precedes the
bedded in the other sentence, although sumti will always be noi/poi is a sumti.	 The end of a relative clause is marked
attached with "be" and "bei" in	such a sentence) (the	    by "ku'o" (which may be elided).  Relative clauses are also
"se'u" can sometimes be	elided,	so don't worry if you don't often terminated by	running	into the end of	the sentence or
find it), and are generally found totally within another    into the main selbri of the	sentence, so again, don't worry
sentence.  Leave right ends unmarked if	you can't find	    if you don't find a	right edge.  Mark right	edges, as you
them; if the text is grammatical, they will become ap-	    identify them, with	a right	carat '>'.
parent.	 Marking these major constructs	gives you the gross   4b. Relative phrases are attached	to sumti with pe, po'u,
structure of the text.					    po,	po'e, ne, no'u,	and goi, and a few other members of
							    lexeme GOI that occur infrequently.	 If you	see one	of
2. Put braces {} around	the contents of	any NU abstraction  these words, then that which follows it is a sumti AND that
clause.	 The left side is marked by a member of	NU lexeme   which precedes it is also a	sumti.	The second sumti
(nu, ka, ni, jei, su'u,	zu'o, pu'u, mu'e, si'o,	li'i,	    modifies or	relates	to the first in	some way depending on
za'i).	These may be compounded	with le, lo, loi, lei, or   the	particular cmavo.  Put a pair of equal signs around one
one of the other articles in lexeme LE,	e.g. "lenu".  The   of these attaching terms, since they usually indicate some
end of a sentence or the word "kei" always closes an	    type of relationship between the two sumti so joined.
abstraction clause; a "cu" may also close it, but don't
assume so at this point	- leave	the right edge unmarked	if  5. Most cmavo not already mentioned	will be	in one of four
it isn't obvious.  The text within an abstraction clause is lexemes.
a sentence, so when you	translate the sentence,	you'll then   5a. Anaphora (pronouns) are in lexeme KOhA and lexeme DA.
find the right end.					    Most frequently these include mi, do, mi'o,	ma'a, zu'i,
							    zo'e, da, de, di, ko'a, ko'e, ko'i,	ko'o, ko'u.  These are
3. For each sentence, analyze it from left to right.	    all	sumti, although	they may be found in a compound
Identify and translate each brivla.  If	it is next to	    possessive form: lemi stizu, in which case the article,
another	brivla,	it is a	tanru, so translate the	tanru as a  anaphora, and brivla together make up a sumti.
whole.	A brivla may be	preceded by "na", which	negates	it;   5b. Most unfamiliar cmavo	will be	either a sumti tag in
include	the "na" in the	tanru.				    lexeme BAI or FA, or a discursive in lexeme	UI.  If	you
  If a brivla or tanru is preceded by an article in lexeme  have a cmavo list, look among those	lexemes	first.	UI
LE, then the whole is a	sumti.	Put a single underline	    lexeme has no effect on the	grammar	- you can ignore them
under each sumti as you	identify it.			    until you have all the rest	of the sentence	figured	out.
  If a brivla or tanru is preceded by "cu", then it is the  sumti tags are always followed by a	sumti, so you can also
main selbri of a bridi sentence.  Put a	double underline    ignore them, except	to use them to find a sumti that is
under each selbri as you identify it (the "cu" is not part  otherwise unidentified.
of the selbri).
  A selbri may be preceded by a	tense instead of by "cu" (a 6. By now, you should have well marked up the Lojban, and
tense is usually a single cmavo	or a compound containing    have underlined or marked pretty much every	word in	the
one or more of ba, ca, pu, vi, va, vu, zi, za, zu; e.g.	"ca sentence.  This is because everything in a sentence	is
klama").  You will use double underlines for tensed selbri  either a sumti, a discursive, or the main selbri.  Now
as well	(the tense is not part of the selbri); however,	a   translate the sentence, piece by piece, as best as you can.
tense on a brivla does not necessarily mean that you have a (Remember that "le bajra" translates as "the runner", not
selbri.	 Look at the word before the tense.  If	the tense   "the run".)	 You may fail on the first several sentences,
is preceded by a member	of LE (e.g. le pu jmive), the	    and	have to	look at	our translations to see	the pieces, but
construct is a sumti, and should be single-underlined;	    you	will find that you quickly get the hang	of it.	The
otherwise it is	a selbri and should be double-underlined.   procedure only seems complicated at	first; you'll be doing
  Not all selbri are marked with "cu" or a tense;	    it in your head rather than	on paper after a bit of
especially when	following an anaphora (pronoun).  In "mi    experience.
klama",	"mi" is	a sumti	and "klama" is a selbri.  However,    I'll let Michael start off with some of his Lojbanic
"lemi klama" (or "le mi	klama",	same difference) is a sumti attempts.  We'll have more eventually, but I'm less	willing
- the "le" makes all the difference.			    to play with someone's phrasing to make it grammatical in
  As you can see, telling the difference between sumti and  the	case of	something labelled 'poetry' instead of 'prose',
selbri is the toughest thing in	the language.  It is best   for	fear of	losing some intended sound or meaning effects.


							   7


	       A Palindrome (mitfa'e lerpoi)
		     by	Michael	Helsem

	     .a'u le rapcalku cu klacpare lu'a

 (I wish!) The repeat-shell is a going (to/from) climber,
		     loosely speaking.

Bob:  The significance of this statement is left to the
reader,	but it is both grammatical and a valid palindrome.

-------------------------------------------------
	    A Lojban Aphorism by Michael Helsem
		    (corrected by Bob)

 .uu lo'e rarbau cu simlu jalge	loi cmadjizu'e pe sekai	lo
		   ta'e	drabai ka juxre

(Sorrow!) The typical natural-language is a seeming-result
of small-want-acts (random acts) which-are-characterized-by
	  habitually correct-forcer awkwardness.
  This is approximated by:  The	typical	natural	language
 seems to result from random acts of awkwardness forced	by
		       correctness.

-------------------------------------------------

							   8


						    Self-Description
						    by T. Peter	Park

coi pendo

     .i	mi du la tipitr. park. poi cnino lojbytadni

     ni'o mi ckuzdacertu je bancertu je	circertu  .i mi	gunka vi le ckuzda po'e	la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplus.	 .i
puzuze'uku mi tadni le nintei ropno citri vi le	balcu'e	po'e la	virdjinian.  .i	lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu	zu'o
tadni le prijypenla'u .e loi bangu  .i mi pu'i tavla gi'a tcidu	vau la gliban. .e la .estyban. .e la frasyban. .e la
tcoban.	.e la spanban. .e la portyban. .e la .italban. .e la sfedban. .e la ruskyban.  .i mi steci nelci lezu'o	tadni la
lojban.	 .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta'a noi kansa loi menli .a	zdile prenu

     ni'o mi pu	jbena la .erix.	park. .e la .ilmen. park. ca la	pasovopananc. vi la .estis. noi	pucaze'a sepli gugde
gi'e caca pagbu	le softo badyjecta  .i mi capu xabju la	.iunaitydsteits. zai la	pasovobinanc.  .i mi capu tadni	vi le
slacitcu'e po'e	la linbruk. .e le balcu'e po'u la .adelfais. .e	le su'ore balcu'e po'e la virdjinian. .e la MERiland.
.i mi pu tadni le ckuzdaske vi le balcu'e po'e la MERiland.

     ni'o mi capu ciska	re lojbyciksi torselcusku

     co'o
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
					      A	letter to Marcia Greenough
						    by T. Peter	Park

coi marcan.

  .i mi	du la tipitr. park.

  ni'o lemi nu penmi do	ca le midydeisa'i noi pu kansa la krtis. bruks.	cu mutce pluka mi  .i mi mutce nelci loinu
kasta'a	noi kansa lei menli prenu

  ni'o mi ckuzdacertu gi'e bancertu gi'e circertu  .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda po'e la linbruk. pe	vi la cladaplun.  .i pu
tadni loi nintei ropno citri vi	le balcu'e po'e	la virdjinian.	.i lemi	ralju naljibri nu gasnu	cu zu'o	bantadni  .i mi
steci nelci lezu'o tadni la lojban.

  .i .e'o ko dunda lemi	nu rinsa kei la	kyrtis.	.e la djak. danyvan.

		    .i mi du la	pitr.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
					       Two letters to Deb Wunder
						    by T. Peter	Park

coi deb.

     .i	mi du la tipitr. park.	.i mi ckuzdacertu gi'e bancertu	gi'e circertu  .i mi gunka vi le ckuzda	po'e la	linbruk.
pe vi la cladaplus.  .i	mi pu tadni loi	nintei ropno citri vi le balcu'e po'e la virdjinian.  .i lemi ralju naljibri nu
gasnu cu zu'o bantadni

     ni'o lemi'o nu fonkasta'a pu mutce	pluka mi  .i mi	mutce nelci loi	menli je zdile nu kasta'a

     ni'o mi vi	benji re jbociksi selsku do  .i	mi pu ciska ri	.i .a'o	ri ba pluka do

				   .i mi du la pitr.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

coi deb.

							   9


     .i	mi pu mutce nelci lenu penmi do	 .ije mi pu mutce nelci	lenu penmi la lojbab. .e la noras. .e la. .atlstan. .e
la .abis. .e la	.erik. TIdeman.	.e la .art. .uiners. .e	la morokos.

     ni'o ledo ka prenu	cu mutce pluka mi

     ni'o .a'u mi djica	lenu do	lifri lo mutce gleki je	melbi ke cizemoi bendei	 .i mi pacna lenu do lifri lo mutce
gleki cizemoi nanca  .ije mi pacna ledo	naldu'e	ka selzunti ledo malmensi

     ni'o mi du	ledo pendo poi du la tipitr.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
						      From Genesis
					   by T. Peter Park, corrected by Bob

.i la cev. pu zbasu le tsani .e	la ted.	vi lenu	cfari
ni'o la	cev. pu	cusku
     lu	ko loi gusni cu	cfari leka zasti li'u
.ije loi gusni pu cfari	leka zasti

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
					   An Original Science Fiction Story
						    by Jamie Bechtel

     Jamie wrote this in July, having received only Lessons 1-6, and a couple of hours tutoring	at LogFest in June.
Nearly all of the grammar he uses is covered in	those 6	lessons, showing how much you can do with just a little	Lojban
grammar.
     This is the first original	Lojban science fiction,	perhaps	the start of a long tradition.

					      loi dacti	poi farlu le tsani

mi pupu	platu lenu viska lo skina poi se cmene be le latmo cmene be loi	xirma  .i lera cmene du	zo ekuus.

.i mi stali lemi kumfa ki'u lo vlipa ke	bratu carvi  .i	mi tcidu lo cukta ki'u la'edi'u

.i mi tirna lo cladu pe	vi le gapru loldi  .i mi bajra ra  .i le savru krasi cu	barda bratu  .i	ri pu farlu klama fo le
drudi fi le tsani

.i mi cikre le drudi kalri

.i mi tirna lo du'e savru pe vi	le danmo tubli

.i mi bajra le danmo tubli kalri gi'e zgana lo bratu  .i mi na kakne lenu cikre	kei mu'i leka tcima

.i savru vi le cnita loldi  .i le savru	cu na rarna  .i	mu'i la'edi'u mi cu terpa  .i mi na birti catlu.

.i lo dukse cizra prenu	cu sanli ta  .i	ra dukse barda ke blabi	kubli gi'e ponse lo dukse ni moklu.

.i ra pu farlu le tsani	 .i mi zgana lo	drata ke cizra dacti poi farlu le tsani	.i nalci since

i pa lera moklu	cu bacru lu ko na terpa	 .i le jmive ranji temci po'e ro lemi prenu cu mentu li	paci .i	mi na kakne lenu
mi xrani li'u

.i mi cu se spaji lenu le cizra	prenu cu cuksu fo la lojban

.i le tcima cu manku ri'anai la	gaicac.

ni'oni'o ve'a loi citri	ku loi prenu pu	viska loinu cizra dacti	carvi  .i loi prenu cu viska lonu banfi	carvi  .i lonu
curnu carvi  .i	lonu lijda dacti carvi

							   10


ni'o mi	puzu penmi lo tordu nanmu .i ri	krici lu da poi	loi prenu cu krici cu fasnu li'u  .i lu	la'edi'u ca na fasnu
seja'e ma li'u se cpedu	mi  .i lu ma'a krici loi saske .enai loi lijda li'u

ni'oni'o le cizra prenu	cu morsi  .i le	since cu citka le morsi	cizra  .i ba la'edi'u le since cu gapci

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
			     A Re-translation of a Paragraph by	JCB in Scientific American
						    by T. Peter	Park

Short story from James Cooke Brown, "Loglan", Scientific American, June, 1960, p. 61:

Lojban version:

le le jenmi gidva goi ko'e ge'u	girzu lidne goi	ko'a pu	cusku leko'a ka	selpluka leko'a	nu cusku leko'a	ka puzuzai djuno
le fatci  .i ko'a pu tsali cusku lu ko'e .ia na	tcica mi ri'anai leko'e	nu troci li'u gi'e pu minde leko'e noi du zenono
prenu ku'o ka pinfu leko'e kumfa

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
					       Roswell,	New Mexico, 1947
						    by T. Peter	Park

le varjenmi sonlidne goi ko'a pu skicu le seljanli volcukla ko'e goi le	varsonci .e le skeprenu	ku lo kensa marce gi'e
pu skicu le ze morsi ke	re'atra	xadni poi pupu va se facki  .i ko'a pu kajde ko'e lu loka jecta	snura cu se sarcu loka
mulno mipri noi	srana ti li'u

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
					   A Short Lesson in Office Politics
					  by T.	Peter Park, corrected by Nora

     The preceding pieces by T.	Peter use fairly straight-forward grammar, and are relatively short.  There were minor
errors,	of the types discussed in the mini-grammar discussions at the end of this issue, but T.	Peter gets full	credit
for the	work:  he did quite well.  This	translation is considerably longer, and	uses more complex grammar.  Nora had to
make substantial changes to make it both grammatical and to mean what T. Peter indicated in his	translation.  Since we
didn't have time to get	T. Peter's approval of the changes before publication, Nora is also listed in the credits.

				     tordu tadnyspi co srana lo	pu'u briju selturni

ni'o loi jikcecmu senlanli noi la .erix. from. e la deivid. rizman. e la .arlin. rasel.	xokcaild. mupli	cu jinvi lenu
lenu se	cinmo seljitro fa loi jibgunka cu ralju	mupli lo jikca nalzifre

.i le senlanli cu skicu	leka bapli pe leka roroi cisma .e leka roroi pluka gasnu

.i le cukta poi	se cmene lu nu camrivbi	leka zifre li'u	pe ci'a	la from. ge'u .e lu le sepci'o so'irpre	vau li'u pe ci'a
la rizman. ge'u	.e lu le seljitro risna	po'a vau li'u pe ci'a la xokcaild. cu skicu gi'e senlanli vau le nalrarna ke
cinmo nu jitro po'u ru

.i loi ta'e pluka gasnu	ke briju je zarci gunka	na'o klesi se fendi fi re frica	girzu

.i loi pamoi girzu gunka so'eroi xendo gasnu fi	loi kansa gunka	gi'e milxe pendo je sidju gasnu	fi loi tervecnu	.a loi
selselfu

.i loi remoi girzu gunka roroi carmi pluka je pendo je cisma je	clite simlu gasnu fi loi tervecnu .a loi selselfu gi'e
so'iroi	jursa je minde gasnu fi	loi kansa gunka

.i loi pamoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni	jinvi loi se cinmo be loi kansa	gunka gi'e so'iroi milxe lanzu bo simsa	jinvi
sera'a loi kansa gunka

.i loi gunka po'u ra cu	gungri cmima jundi gunka

							   11


.i loi remoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni	jinvi loi terzukte fi le kagni gi'e lazni ja nalpendo jinvi sera'a loi ckamu
carmi ke pluka je sutra	ke'e gasnu gunka gi'e ckamu vajni jinvi	sera'a le se cinmo be loi kansa	gunka

.i pisu'o loi pamoi girzu gunka	no'u loi gungri	cmima jundi gunka ku mabla bo po'i ganxo bo cinba po'a je ke drata gunka
bradi ke'e jinvi sera'a	loi remoi girzu	gunka

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
				       A Symbolic Logic	Problem	by Lewis Carroll
					      translated by Sylvia Rutiser

This translation was Sylvia's 'final examination' from the Lojban class, and she did quite well, though	some problems
were later identified in discussions with pc.  In going	over the translation in	class, we discussed how	to write this
logical	material in a more 'logical' form, adding the answer.  Bob took	notes and expanded to include the full text of
Carroll's original, which was stated as	a logic	problem	with solution, and stipulated symbols to be used for the various
propositions.

ro da poi na mulno leka	melbi claxu ka'e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa

.i no da poi se	jadni lo silna cu mulno	leka sudga

.i no da poi na	mulno leka na cilmo ka'e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa

.i ro da poi lumci minji cu se stuzi lo	xamsi korbi

.i no da poi se	zbasu fi lo calku jemna	cu mulno leka melbi claxu

.i ro da poi se	stuzi lo xamsi korbi cu	se jadni lo silna

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob's expansion	and correction:

					leflogji nabmi ci'a la lu,is. keral. vau

ni'osa'a faisa'a

ni'o de'e se cmima lo nalsucta jufra noi zo'e stidi lenu ke'a selru'a co nibypoi.  .i lo se nibli cu se	facki ko

ni'osa'a faisa'a

ni'o muremo'o tu'e

pamai ro da poi	na mulno leka claxu loika melbi	cu selcu'i co selra'e selstu lo	vitke nunzdi kumfa

.ije remai no da poi se	jadni lo silna cu su'oroi mulno	leka sudga

.ije cimai no da selcu'i .ei co	selra'e	selstu lo vitke	nunzdi kumfa gi'enai mulno leka	na cilmo

.ije vomai ro da poi jinru minji cu roroi selra'e selstu lo xamsi korbi

.ije mumai no da poi se	zbasu fi lo calku jmepilka cu mulno leka claxu loika melbi

.ije xamai ro da poi selra'e selstu lo xamsi korbi cu bapu'i se	jadni lo silna
tu'u

ni'o ru'u roda dacti  .ije ly .abu. du lu'elu mulno leka claxu loika melbi li'u	 .ije ly by. du	lu'elu jinru minji li'u
.ije ly	cy. du lu'elu se jadni lo silna	li'u  .ije ly dy. du lu'elu selra'e selstu lo xamsi korbi li'u	.ije ly	.ebu. du
lu'elu se zbasu	fi lo calku jemna pilka	li'u  .ije ly xy. du lu'elu mulno leka sudga li'u seisa'a ri mintu leka	sudga
.ije ly	ky. du lu'elu selcu'i co selra'e selstu	lo vitke nunzdi	kumfa li'u

ni'osa'a faisa'a

							   12



						       ni'o danfu

.isa'a faisa'a

.i muremo'o ni'ida'uku ro da poi jinru minji cu	na se zbasu fi le calku	jemna pilka

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
						The Open Window	by Saki
						translated by Athelstan

This was Athelstan's 'final examination' from the class, and an	excellent piece	of work	indeed.	 Most of the piece was
written	before the latest grammar change was approved, and Athelstan missed the	class session on tense.	 As a result,
Bob and	Nora have updated Athelstan's work to the current grammar before publication, with Athelstan having gone over
and approved most of the changes.  The piece serves as an excellent tutorial on	many more complex parts	of the grammar.
You will want to note in the translation several cmavo and grammar features that are not yet well-documented anywhere
else.  This piece is worth the considerable time it will take you to look up gismu and cmavo, analyze tanru and	lujvo,
and make your best guesses as to the grammatical meaning, then checking	with our double-checked	word-for-word
translation and	Saki's original	English.  We are providing a mini-cmavo	list as	a supplement to	this issue to aid in
your study.

This is	a long piece, and some of the grammar is quite complex,	perhaps	even more complex than 'natural' fluent	Lojban
will be, since Athelstan was trying to capture the style, sentence order, and flavor, of Saki's	writing.  Thus some
sentences are longer and more complex than they	might need to be.  Yet the Lojban is roughly the same length as	the
English.

Please notify us if you	are totally confused by	any construct.	None of	us are perfect at Lojban yet, and even work
checked	by three goods Lojbanists could	still have errors and strangeness within.  Your	comments are appreciated.


					  mele kalri canko ci'a	la sakis. vau


     ni'oni'o lu lemi rirme'i bazi dizlo klama doi mestr.natl. li'u se bacru le	clite ke jikca kufra citni'u noi ke'a li

pamu cu	nanca  .i lu .ei do troci lenu do cabi'ibaxipa renvi lenu mi jikca li'u	se bacru


     .i	la fremtn.natl.	goi fo'a troci lenu cusku le drani poi ke'a cu ge cusku	pluka le cavizi	tunbyti'u gi nake jikca

xlali le bavizi	rirme'i	 .i secau lenu fo'a cusku kei fo'a senpi lenu le porsi nu jikri'i vitke	lei pu na penmi	kei cu

sidju le xanka ve mikce	poi fo'a ca troci co se	mikce





     ni'o lu ru'a mi djuno ledo	bavuza tcini li'u lefo'a goi le	go'i ku	mensi pupu se bacru mu'i lenu fo'a ca binxo co

bredi lenu xabju klama le puxirejeva nurma ke snura stuzi  .i lu do bava jikca najenai tavla su'o jmive	prenu  .i ledo

ni xanka kei cu	zenba ri'a lenu	ranji badri  .i	da'i .ei mi ba dunda fi	do fe lei pemydjuxa'a be fe ro leva prenu poi pu

jikca se penmi mi  .i su'o ri cu sei dei jetnu befi leimi se morji se'u	pu mutce pluka li'u


     ni'o la fremtn. puxiso'e pensi lu xu la mezyz. sepltn. ne le ninmu	poi fo'a dunda fi ke'a fe pa le	pemdjuxa'a ku'o

cu cmima lei pluka li'u

							   13



     .i	lu xu do pu penmi so'i le viza prenu li'u preti	fi le tunbyti'u	mu'i lenu ri ca	pajni leni na sance jikca kei le

banzu


     .i	lu go'i	ji'ino prenu li'u se bacru la fremtn.  .i lu lemi mensi	puviza xabju la	REKtoris. pu le	puzi nanca vomei

.i ra pu dunda su'o pemdjuxa'a befe su'o le viza prenu li'u  .i	romoi jufra bacru ci'o lenu selbirti xenru


     .i	lu ju'e	do djuno le ji'inomei xu lemi rirme'i li'u ranji jmina preti se	bacru le clite ke jikca	kufra citni'u


     .i	lu go'i	lo su'emei po'u	lera cmene .e lera judri li'u tugni se danfu le	vitke  .i fo'a pensi kucli lenu	la

mezyz.sepltn. goi ko'u cu speni	gi'a mroselspe	.i da poi na kakne co se skicu zi'e pe le kumfa	cu stidi leka nanmu

xabju


     .i	lu leko'u goi ra banli betri cu	fasnu puca le pu nanca be li ci	seisa'a	se cusku be le citno  .i la'edi'u balvi

lenu ledo mensi	vi xabju li'u vau


     .i	lu ki'a	leko'u betri vau li'u preti fi la framtn.  .i ki'u da fo le vive'a surla nurma stuzi fa	lei betri cu

simlu lo fange


     .i	lu se lakne lenu do kucli lenu mu'i ma mi'a rinka lenu leva canko cu ranji le kalri kei	le mela	aktobr.

lecysoltei li'u	se bacru le tunbyti'u noi ke'a ca farja'o le barda fasyvroca'o noi lamji le saurfoi


     .i	lu .i'e	leni glare cu zmadu lo'e ni ca citsi glare seisa'a se cusku be la fremtn.  .i ji'a xu le va canko fi da

ckini fe le betri li'u vau


     lu	tai lenu va canko pagre	ku cazi	le satci cibnanca purci	ku ko'a	goi ge leko'u speni gi leko'u re citno bruna cu

cliva zukte fi le leca djedi ku	terdanti nunkalte


     .i	ko'a ko'a noroi	xruti  .i ca lenu ko'a cu ragve	klama fo le rancimdre foldi fe leko'a selneirai	ke cpirsnaipe

katstu kei ro le cimei cu se ri'usrutu'o lo nurcau rancimderke'a  .i ca	le pu kufrydukti je carvi crisa	sei se djuno

se'u loi stuzi poi ke'a	cu snura ca lei	drata nanca cu suksa je	nalseljde nalsarji  .i leko'a xadni cu noroi se	facki

.i la'edi'u kufrydukti pagbu li'u se bacru le tunbyti'u	goi fo'e  .i le	voksa be le citno cazi binxo co	ckaji leka jikca

kufra na.e leka	ci'orja'o co dirsre remna  .i fo'e bacru lu la selke'i rirme'i cu roroi	krici lenu ko'a	ba xruti ko'a ca

lo ba djedi  .i	ko'a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke'a se cirko fa'u lenu ke'a kansa ko'a cu dzukla levi

							   14



nenri fo leva canko ta'i le purci po ko'a  .i la'edi'u cu krinu	lenu le	canko cu kalri ranji fi	ro le vanci pagbu pe

ze'o le	ctebixtei


     .i	la selke'i je selnei rirme'i goi ko'u puta'e tavla mi lesu'u cliva ne pu'e lenu	ge leko'u speni	goi ko'e cu

kansa ponse leko'e blabi je jacnalgre gacko'a noi ke'a dandu leko'e birka gi la	ranis. po'u leko'u citrai bruna	goi ko'i

cu sanga lu doi	brtis. mu'i ma do plipe	li'u noi roroi se sanga	semu'i lenu zdifanza ko'u ku mu'i lenu ko'u xusra lenu

le nunsanga cu fanza ko'u  .i sei ko djuno be la'edei so'uroiku	ca lei bifcau je smaji vanci poi ke'a simsa ti ko'u mi

piso'aroi pencauji'i lenu ro ko'a ba dzugre leva canko li'u


     ni'o fo'e sisti tai lo cmalu nu desku  .i la fremtn. surlybi'o va'o lenu le rirme'i cu so'irzu'edzukla le kumfa

nenri tai lo gunma be loi xernuncru pe mu'i lenu ko'u lerci lenu ko'u klama ti


     .i	lu mi pacna lenu la viras. capu	zdile do li'u se bacru ko'u


     .i	lu ra capu carmi cinri li'u se bacru la	fremtn.





     .i	lu mi pacna lenu do na se fanza	le kalri canko seisa'a sutra se	bacru be la mezyz. sepltn.  .i lemi speni ce

bruna goi ko'a cu zvati	le selxa'u bazi	leinu seldantysazri  .i	ko'a roroi nerkla fo ta	 .i ko'a pu bartu ca lei

cimynalsai foldi seni'i	lenu ko'a ba galfi fi lo naljinsa kalsa	fe lemi	selke'i	lolbu'u	 .i simsa leka medo po'u loi

nanmu kei vau xu li'u vau


     .i	ko'u gleki rajyta'a fi leinu seldantysazri .e le cipni ka so'umei .e leka cumki	loi datka ca le	dunra  .i ga'a

la fremtn. goi fo'a la'edi'u curve ka nalpu'a  .i fo'a camtcu je su'episo'emei bo snada	troci lenu fo'a	galfi lenu

terta'a	kei lo mroru'i ckamu nu	terta'a	 .i fo'a sanji lenu lefo'a selvi'e capu	su'episo'umei jundi kei	.e lenu	leko'u

kanla ru'i midyctarmu'u	fo fo'a	fi le kalri canko .e levu saurfoi  .i fo'a birti lenu lefo'a vitke pe ca leca betri

nacykefydei cu xlafunca	cunkemdimnyfau


     .i	lu lei mikce cu	tugni ri lenu ri mikce mi fo lonu mulno	surla .e lonu menli ci'ordu'e claxu .e lonu mi rivbi

roda poi simsa lonu vlile slugu'a li'u nuzba fi	la fremtn. noi ke'a cu jinvi le	su'episo'imei kampu jifselkri po'u lenu

loi roroi penmi	.e loi paroi cunpenmi cu nuzyxagji ro lo cmalu tcila be	lei terbi'a .e lei termikce .e leiri rinka je

velmikce  .i lu	sera'a lemi ctipla ru cu na mutce tugni	li'u se	mi'acru	fo'a

							   15



     .i	lu xu na go'i li'u se bacru la mezyz. sepltn. sepi'o lo	voksa poi cazi basti lo	nalselcni nunva'u  .i ko'u suksa

lenu binxo lo cikna jundi  .i go'i mu'inai le se bacru be la fremtn.


     .i	lu ko'a	vize'o klama ca	.uo ku seisa'a se laucru be ko'u se'u cazi le tcatytei	.i .ienaipei ko'a simsa	zo'e poi

ke'a cimdre se gacri ji'e le kanla li'u	vau


     .i	la fremtn. piso'umei desku ri gi'e carna zu'i le tunbyti'u sekai leka firsku poi se djica fo'a lenu cusku leka

ci'orkansa jimpe  .i le	citno cu caicta	da pe vije'oza le kalri	canko sekai leka lo cfipu ka teprai cu se jarco	lefo'e

kanla  .i sekai	leka lenku jenca co velskicycau	nunte'a	ku la fremtn. carna le seltse gi'e catlu fa'a le se go'i





     .i	va'o le	manbi'o	vanci ku lo ci remtra goi ko'a cu dzukla fo le saurfoi vazai le	canko  .i roda po'u pa le cimei

cu bevri lo terdanti seni'a leda birka	.i pa le cimei cu mi'arbe'i lo blabi kosta noi dandu leri janco	 .i lo tatpi ke

bunre pangerku ca vazi ranji leko'a jafti'e  .i	sekai leka sancau ku ko'a jbibi'o le zdani  .i lo ruble	je citno voksa

cu sagysku ra'i	lei manku fe lu	mi pu cusku lu doi brtis. mu'i ma do plipe li'u	li'u


     .i	la fremtn. cilce jgari lefo'a grana .e lefo'a mapku  .i	le zdacravro .e	le cmaroi kacplu .e le crane folbimvro

cu kandi selzga	velplu sepa'u lefo'a xalni nu ze'o bajra  .i lo	relxilma'e sazri noi ke'a klama	fo le dargu cu bai

nerbi'o	le spabi'u mu'i	lenu zu'i rivbi	lo bazi	nu janli


     .i	lu vi stuzi mi'a doi lami dirba	seisa'a	se bacru be le bevri be	le blabi cavykosta be'o	noi ke'a nerkla	fo le

canko se'u noi ke'a piso'imei cimdre selgai  .i	ku'i piso'e le cimdre cu sudga	.i ma sukybajykla le bartu ca lenu mi'a

vi klama li'u


     .i	lu fo'a	goi lo traji nalfadni nanmu po'u la mestr. natl. cu go'i seisa'a se bacru be la	mezyz. sepltn.	.i pu

tavla fi leri nunbi'a .enai lo drata gi'e sukli'a secau	lo litli'avla .a lo xervla ca lenu do vi klama	.i lakne jinvi

lenu fo'a pu viska lo ru'ipre li'u


     .i	lu mi stidi lenu le pangerku cu	mukti seisa'a seke smaci'o bacru le tunbyti'u  .i fo'a fi mi skicu fe lenu fo'a

camte'a	loi gerku  .i paroiku fo'a seke	jersi kalte vazaive'a lo mrofoi	pe vi le ri'emla be la ganjiz. fe lo cilce gerku

girzu  .i fo la'edi'u nitcu fa fo'a fe lenu caze'a le nicte cu stali vizi lo ninselkakpa mroke'a va'o lenu lei gerku ca

gekyki'a gi'e jdecisma gi'e sputu vau ve'ijega'u fo'a  .i la'ede'u cu banzu lenu roda xalni li'u

							   16



     .i	leka finti loi cizra lisri ze'i	lo cmalu temci cu ka fo'e se certu steci


					   Translations	of le lojbo se ciska

						    Self-Description
						    by T. Peter	Park

coi pendo
Hello friends

     .i	mi du la tipitr. park. poi cnino lojbytadni
     I am T. Peter Park	who is a new Lojban-student.


     ni'o mi ckuzdacertu je bancertu je	circertu  .i mi	gunka vi le ckuzda po'e	la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplus.	 .i
puzuze'uku mi tadni le nintei ropno citri vi le	balcu'e	po'e la	virdjinian.  .i	lemi ralju naljibri nu gasnu cu	zu'o
tadni le prijypenla'u .e loi bangu  .i mi pu'i tavla gi'a tcidu	vau la gliban. .e la .estyban. .e la frasyban. .e la
tcoban.	.e la spanban. .e la portyban. .e la .italban. .e la sfedban. .e la ruskyban.  .i mi steci nelci lezu'o	tadni la
lojban.	 .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta'a noi kansa loi menli .a	zdile prenu
     I am a librarian (book-house-expert), linguist (language-expert), and historian (history-expert).	I work in the
library	(book-house) of	Lynbrook on Long Island.  A long time ago for a	long time I studied modern (new-time) European
history	at the University (great-school) of Virginia.  My principal hobbies (non-job activities) are studying philosophy
(wise-thinking-art) and	languages.  I can speak	and/or read English, Estonian, French, German, Spanish,	Portuguese,
Italian, Swedish, and Russian. I especially like studying Lojban. I very much enjoy conversation with intelligent and/or
amusing	people.

     ni'o mi pu	jbena la .erix.	park. .e la .ilmen. park. ca la	pasovopananc. vi la .estis. noi	pucaze'a sepli gugde
gi'e caca pagbu	le softo badyjecta  .i mi capu xabju la	.iunaitydsteits. zai la	pasovobinanc.  .i mi capu tadni	vi le
slacitcu'e po'e	la linbruk. .e le balcu'e po'u la .adelfais. .e	le su'ore balcu'e po'e la virdjinian. .e la MERiland.
.i mi pu tadni le ckuzdaske vi le balcu'e po'e la MERiland.
     I was born	to Erich and Ilme Park in 1941 (the date 1941) in Estonia, which was for some time a separate country
and is now part	of the Soviet Megastate	(big-polity).  I have dwelt in the United States since 1948 (the date 1948). I
have studied in	the high school	(older-young-school) of	Lynbrook, the college (great-school) named Adelphi, and	the
universities (great-schools) of	Virginia and Maryland. I studied library science at the	University (great-school) of
Maryland.

     ni'o mi capu ciska	re lojbyciksi torselcusku
     I have written two	Lojban-explaining articles (short-discourses, brief-expressions).

     co'o
     Good-bye!

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
				     A letter to Marcia	Greenough by T.	Peter Park

coi marcan.
Hello, Marcia!

.i mi du la tipitr. park.
I am the one called T. Peter Park.

ni'o lemi nu penmi do ca le midydeisa'i	noi pu kansa la	krtis. bruks. cu mutce pluka mi	 .i mi mutce nelci loinu kasta'a
noi kansa lei menli prenu
My act of meeting you at the midday-meal (lunch), which	incidentally was with the one called Curtis Brooks, very much
pleased	me.  I very much like all the acts of talking-together (conversation) which incidentally are with some of the
intelligent people.

							   17


ni'o mi	ckuzdacertu gi'e bancertu gi'e circertu	 .i mi gunka vi	le ckuzda po'e la linbruk. pe vi la cladaplun.	.i pu
tadni loi nintei ropno citri vi	le balcu'e po'e	la virdjinian.	.i lemi	ralju naljibri nu gasnu	cu zu'o	bantadni  .i mi
steci nelci lezu'o tadni la lojban.
I am a book-house-expert (librarian), a	language-expert	(linguist), and	a history-expert (historian).  I work in the
book-house (library) of	Lynbrook on the	Long-Island.  I	studied	new-time (modern) European history in the great-school
(university) of	Virginia.  My principal	un-job activity	of doing (hobby) is the	activity of language-study
(linguistics).	I particularly enjoy the activity of studying the one called Lojban.

.i .e'o	ko dunda lemi nu rinsa kei la kyrtis. .e la djak. danyvan.
Please give my acts of greeting	to the one called Curtis and the one called Jack Donovan.

				   .i mi du la pitr.
				   I am	the one	called Peter.

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
				       Two letters to Deb Wunder by T. Peter Park

coi deb.
Hello, Deb!

.i mi du la tipitr. park.  .i mi ckuzdacertu gi'e bancertu gi'e	circertu  .i mi	gunka vi le ckuzda po'e	la linbruk. pe
vi la cladaplus.  .i mi	pu tadni loi nintei ropno citri	vi le balcu'e po'e la virdjinian.  .i lemi ralju naljibri nu
gasnu cu zu'o bantadni
I am the one called T. Peter Park.  I am a book-house-expert (librarian), a language-expert (linguist),	and a history-
expert (historian).  I work in the book-house (library)	of Lynbrook on the Long-Island.	 I studied new-time (modern)
European history in the	great-school (university) of Virginia.	My principal un-job activity of	doing (hobby) is the
activity of language-study (linguistics).

ni'o lemi'o nu fonkasta'a pu mutce pluka mi  .i	mi mutce nelci loi menli je zdile nu kasta'a
Our act	of telephone-together-talking (phone conversation) much	pleased	me.  I very much like intelligent and amusing
acts of	together-talking (conversation).

ni'o mi	vi benji re jbociksi selsku do	.i mi pu ciska ri  .i .a'o ri ba pluka do
I send here two	Lojban-explaining discourses to	you.  I	wrote them and I hope they will	please you.

				   .i mi du la pitr.
				   I am	the one	called Peter.

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
coi deb.
Hello, Deb!

.i mi pu mutce nelci lenu penmi	do  .ije mi pu mutce nelci lenu	penmi la lojbab. .e la noras. .e la. .atlstan. .e la
.abis. .e la .erik. TIdeman. .e	la .art. .uiners. .e la	morokos.
I very much liked the event of meeting you.  And I very	much liked the event of	meeting	"Loj-Bob," Nora, Athelstan,
Abbie, Eric Tiedemann, Art Wieners, and	Morocco.

ni'o ledo ka prenu cu mutce pluka mi
Your quality of	person-ness very much pleases me.

ni'o .a'u mi djica lenu	do lifri lo mutce gleki	je melbi ke cizemoi bendei  .i mi pacna	lenu do	lifri lo mutce gleki
cizemoi	nanca  .ije mi pacna ledo naldu'e ka selzunti ledo malmensi
I want to wish you a very happy	and beautiful 37th birthday.  I	hope for a very	happy 37th year	for you.  And I	hope for
your not-too-much being-interfered-ness	(condition of being bothered) on the part of your quote	blankety-blank sister
unquote.

ni'o mi	du ledo	pendo poi du la	tipitr.
I am your friend who is	called T. Peter.


							   18


	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
						      From Genesis
					   by T. Peter Park, corrected by Bob

.i la cev. pu zbasu le tsani .e	la ted.	ca lenu	cfari
God made the sky and the Earth during the act of initiating.

ni'o la	cev. pu	cusku
     lu	.ai loi	gusni ca cfari leka zasti li'u
.iseri'abo loi gusni puca cfari	leka zasti
God said,
     "(I intend!) Light	now begins the quality of existing".
And therefore light did	then commence the property of existence.

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
					   An Original Science Fiction Story
						    by Jamie Bechtel

The italics are	Bob's literal translation.  The	non-bold English text is Jamie's intended English equivalent.  You can
see for	yourself how well he did, with only lessons through Lesson 6, no computer aided	instruction, and learning on his
own.	The only errors	in the version he sent me were some minor tense	items he hadn't	had lessons for	(though	he
guessed	well), and the substitutuion of	"go'i" when "la'edi'u" was correct.  I corrected these errors.	His story was
written	before the last	grammar	change,	I had to change	"po'u" to "pe" in a couple of places as	a result.
     Jamie rewards us with a couple of very Lojbanic (as opposed to English) phrasings.	 Especially until we are
established with an international speaker base,	there will be a	premium	on writings which go beyond expressing things
the way	we do in English, and which use	the features of	Lojban to express things in ways difficult or impossible in
other languages.  This can involve non-English tanru, a	feature	of Michael Helsem's writings, or the turn of Lojban
grammar	that relates ideas using Lojbanic precepts.  (The classic of the latter	form was the translation of "A table has
four legs", using the Lojbanic place structure for 'leg' to create the form "A table is	be-legged by four somethings".
In Lojban, this	is "lo jubme cu	se tuple vo da".)
     Excellent work, Jamie!

					      loi dacti	poi farlu le tsani
					     Objects that fall from the	sky

mi pupu	platu lenu viska lo skina poi se cmene be le latmo cmene be loi	xirma  .i lera cmene du	zoa ekuus.
I had-planned the state	of seeing a movie which	is called the Latin name for Horse ... and its (the movie's) name is
identical to 'ekuus'.
I had planned to see a movie called "Equus" (which is Latin for	horse).

.i mi stali lemi kumfa ki'u lo vlipa ke	bratu carvi  .i	mi tcidu lo cukta ki'u la'edi'u
I stay at my room because of some powerful hail-rain.  I read a	book because of	this (my staying in my room.)
However, I stayed in my	room because of	a powerful hail	storm.	Because	of this	I read a book.

.i mi tirna lo cladu pe	vi le gapru loldi  .i mi bajra ra  .i le savru krasi cu	barda bratu  .i	ri pu farlu klama fo le
drudi fi le tsani
I hear a loud (thing) which-is-associated-with at-the above-floor.  I run to it	(the noise).  The noise	origin is large
hail.  They (the hail) fallingly came via the roof (as a route)	from the sky.
I heard	a loud crash upstairs, and ran to it.  Large hailstones	were making the	noise.	They were falling through the
roof.

.i mi cikre le drudi kalri
I fixed	the roof-opening.
I patched the roof hole.

.i mi tirna lo du'e savru pe vi	le danmo tubli
I hear some excessive noise which-is-associated-with at-the smoke-tube.
I heard	noises from the	chimney.

.i mi bajra le danmo tubli kalri gi'e zgana lo bratu  .i mi na kakne lenu cikre	kei mu'i leka tcima

							   19


I run to the smoke-tube	opening	and observe hail.  I'm not-able	at the event-of	repairing, because of the weather-ness.
I ran to the chimney and saw hail-stones.  I wasn't able to do repairs because of the weather.

.i savru vi le cnita loldi  .i le savru	cu na rarna  .i	mu'i la'edi'u mi cu terpa  .i mi na birti catlu.
Noise, at-the below-floor!  The	noise is not-natural.  Because of this (the un-naturalness of the noise), I fear.  I un-
certain-ly look	at.
There's	noises below.  They aren't natural, and	this scared me.	 I carefully looked.

.i lo dukse cizra prenu	cu sanli ta  .i	ra dukse barda ke blabi	kubli gi'e ponse lo dukse ni moklu.
An excessively-bizarre person stands there (on-that).  It (the person) is an excessively-large type-of white-cube, and
possesses excessive mouth-amounts.
A monster stood	there.	It was a giant white cube with many mouths.

.i ra pu farlu le tsani	 .i mi zgana lo	drata ke cizra dacti poi farlu le tsani	.i nalci since
It (the	person)	had fallen from-the sky.  I observe some other type-of bizarre things that fall	from-the sky.  Wing-
snakes.
It had fallen from the sky.  I saw other weird things falling from the sky - winged snakes.

i pa lera moklu	cu bacru
     lu	ko na terpa  .i	le jmive ranji temci po'e ro lemi prenu	cu mentu li paci .i mi na kakne	lenu mi	xrani li'u
One of its (the	person's) mouths utters	"(Imperative) You not-fear!  The live-r	continue time interval inalienably
possessed by all my people is in minutes the number 13.	 I'm not-able at the-event-of me injuring."
One of its mouths spoke	"Don't be scared.  My kind only	live 13	minutes.  I can	do you no harm".

.i mi cu se spaji lenu le cizra	prenu cu cuksu fo la lojban
I am-surprised-by the-state-of the bizarre-person expressing in	form/media Lojban.
I'm surprised the monster speaks Lojban.

.i le tcima cu manku ri'anai la	gaicac.
The weather is dark not-justified-by that called 12-hour.
It's dark despite being	noon.

ni'oni'o ve'a loi citri	ku loi prenu pu	viska loinu cizra dacti	carvi  .i loi prenu cu viska lonu banfi	carvi  .i lonu
curnu carvi  .i	lonu lijda dacti carvi
Totally	new subject.  During medium-interval of	the mass of history, the People	saw Events of bizarre-things raining.
People saw some-events-of amphibian-raining.  Some-events-of worm-raining.  Some-events-of religious-object raining.
Throughout history people have seen strange objects fall from the sky -	frogs, worms, and religious objects.

ni'o mi	puzu penmi lo tordu nanmu .i ri	krici lu da poi	loi prenu cu krici cu fasnu li'u  .i lu	la'edi'u ca na fasnu
seja'e ma li'u se cpedu	mi  .i lu ma'a krici loi saske .enai loi lijda li'u
New subject.  I	long-ago met a short-man.  He (the man)	believed "Something which People believe in, occurs."  "These
(occurrings of what people believe in) now not-occur as-a-result-of what?" was requested by me.	 "We (me and you and
others)	believe	in Science and-not Religion".
Long ago, I met	a short	man.  He believed "Whatever people believe, happens".  "Why don't weird	things happen today?", I
asked.	"Because we believe in science,	not religion.

ni'oni'o le cizra prenu	cu morsi  .i le	since cu citka le morsi	cizra  .i ba la'edi'u le since cu gapci
Totally	new subject.  The bizarre person is dead.  The snakes eat the dead bizarre (one).  And-after-this (the eating),
the snakes are gas.
The monster died.  The snakes at the monster.  Afterwards, the snakes evaporated.

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
			     A Re-translation of a Paragraph by	JCB in Scientific American
						    by T. Peter	Park

le le jenmi gidva goi ko'e ge'u	girzu lidne goi	ko'a pu	cusku leko'a ka	selpluka leko'a	nu cusku le ko'a ka puzuzai
djuno le fatci	.i ko'a	pu tsali cusku lu ko'e ia na tcica mi ri'anai leko'e nu	troci li'u gi'e	pu minde leko'e	noi du
zenono prenu ku'o ka pinfu leko'e kumfa

							   20


The Army-guides' (referred to as they2)	group leader (referred to as he1) expressed his1 state of being	pleased	by his1
event of expressing his1 state of knowing long-past-time the facts.  He1 forcefully said quote they2 certainly did not
deceive	me despite their2 event	of trying unquote and ordered their2, who incidentally were 700	persons, state of being
prisoners in their2 rooms.

Compare	the Lojban with	the 1960 Loglan	version	(which bears only slight resemblence to	JCB's current version of the
language):

le narmi glida grupa cefli pa sedbo koko da pa nu pluci	po sedbo ko da papaca sazno le ri fekto.... ka ia no de	mandu mi
ka da forli sedbo ka nu	nie de pa trati	ka e pa	djori senini de	nu lakso vi le ru kruma	pe de

The chief of the group of army guides said that	he was pleased to say theat he had known the facts for a long time.
"The certainly did not deceive me," he said forcefully,	"even though they tried," and ordered seven hundred of them
locked up in their rooms.

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
					       Roswell,	New Mexico, 1947
						    by T. Peter	Park

le varjenmi sonlidne goi ko'a pu skicu le seljanli volcukla ko'e goi le	varsonci .e le skeprenu	ku lo kensa marce gi'e
pu skicu le ze morsi ke	re'atra	xadni poi pupu va se facki  .i ko'a pu kajde ko'e lu lo	ka jecta snura cu se sarcu lo ka
mulno mipri noi	srana ti li'u

The air-Army soldier-leader, referred to as "he1", described the crashed flying-disc to	the air-soldiers and the
science-persons, [both]	referred to as "them2",	as an outer-space vehicle, and described the seven dead	type of	human-
form bodies which had been discovered there.  He1 warned them2,	quote, at least	one state of polity security
necessitates at	least one state	of being completely secret which incidentally pertains to this,	unquote.

The Army Air Force officer described the crashed flying	disc to	the airmen and scientists (both	"them")	as a space-ship,
and described the seven	dead alien bodies which	had been found there.  He warned them, "National security requires
complete secrecy which incidentally concerns this."

Bob comments:  This is quite good.  I want to point out	a feature that contrasts what I	said about Jamie's Lojbanic
forms: T. Peter's use of "ti" in the last sentence.  This is English usage, "malglico" as Nora calls it	when she all to
frequently catches me doing it.	 Yes, "ti" translates to "this"	in English.  But, "this" rarely	translates to "ti" which
is used	only when pointing or otherwise	indicating the referent.  Unlike an English reader, the	Lojbanist shouldn't
presume	what "ti" refers to in the story, and must examine the implausible as well as the plausible.

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
					   A Short Lesson in Office Politics
					  by T.	Peter Park, corrected by Nora

     tordu tadnyspi co srana lo	pu'u briju selturni
     Short study-piece which concerns that which is the	process	of office type being-governed
     Short Lesson on Office Politics

ni'o loi jikcecmu senlanli noi la .erix. from. e la deivid. rizman. e la .arlin. rasel.	xokcaild. mupli	cu jinvi lenu
lenu se	cinmo seljitro fa loi jibgunka cu ralju	mupli lo jikca nalzifre

The set	of those who are social-community doubting-analysts who	incidentally are by Erich Fromm	and David Riesman and
Arlie Russell Hochschild exemplified, think that the state of being emotionally	controlled of the set of those who are
job-workers is a principal example of that which is social type	unfreedom.

.i le senlanli cu skicu	leka bapli pe leka roroi cisma .e leka roroi pluka gasnu

These doubting-analysts	describe the property of being compelled of the	property of always smiling and the property of
always pleasing	acting.

							   21


.i le cukta poi	se cmene lu nu camrivbi	leka zifre li'u	pe ci'a	la from. ge'u .e lu le sepci'o so'irpre	vau li'u pe ci'a
la rizman. ge'u	.e lu le seljitro risna	po'a vau li'u pe ci'a la xokcaild. cu skicu gi'e senlanli vau le nalrarna ke
cinmo nu jitro po'u ru

The books, defined as "the intense-avoidance of	freedom" written by the	one named Fromm	and "the separate-feeling many-
people"	written	by the one named Riesman and "the controlled heart (figurative)" by the	one named Hochschild, describe
and doubtingly-analyze this artificial-type emotion-control.

.i loi ta'e pluka gasnu	ke briju je zarci gunka	na'o klesi se fendi fi re frica	girzu

The set	of those who are pleasingly acting type	office and market workers can typically	be classifiedly	divided	into two
different groups.

.i loi pamoi girzu gunka so'eroi xendo gasnu fi	loi kansa gunka	gi'e milxe pendo je sidju gasnu	fi loi tervecnu	.a loi
selselfu

The set	of those who are first group type workers usually kind act to the set of those who are accompanying workers, and
moderately friendly and	helpful	act to the set of those	being sold to and/or the set of	those being served.

.i loi remoi girzu gunka roroi carmi pluka je pendo je cisma je	clite simlu gasnu fi loi tervecnu .a loi selselfu gi'e
so'iroi	jursa je minde gasnu fi	loi kansa gunka

The set	of those who are second	group type workers always intense-type pleasing	and friendly and smiling and polite
seeming	act to the set of those	being sold to and/or the set of	those being served, and	often harshly or commandingly
act to the set of those	who are	accompanying workers.

.i loi pamoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni	jinvi loi se cinmo be loi kansa	gunka gi'e so'iroi milxe lanzu bo simsa	jinvi
sera'a loi kansa gunka

The set	of those who are first group type workers superlatively	important consider the feelings	of the set of those who
are accompanying workers, and often somewhat family-similar consider the set of	those who are accompanying workers.

.i loi gunka po'u ra cu	gungri cmima jundi gunka

These workers are work-group member(ly)	attentive type workers.

.i loi remoi girzu gunka cu traji vajni	jinvi loi terzukte fi le kagni gi'e lazni ja nalpendo jinvi sera'a loi ckamu
carmi ke pluka je sutra	ke'e gasnu gunka gi'e ckamu vajni jinvi	sera'a le se cinmo be loi kansa	gunka

The set	of those who are second	group type workers superlatively important consider the	set of those that are goals of
the company, and lazy and/or unfriendly	consider the set of those that are less	intensely pleasant-acting and/or less
intensely fast-acting workers, and less	important consider the feelings	of the set of those that are accompanying
workers.

.i pisu'o loi pamoi girzu gunka	no'u loi gungri	cmima jundi gunka ku mabla bo po'i ganxo bo cinba po'a je ke drata gunka
bradi ke'e jinvi sera'a	loi remoi girzu	gunka

Some of	the set	of those who are first group type workers, which incidentally are the set of those who are work-group
memberly attentive workers, derogatively anus-kissers (figurative) and other workers' type enemies consider the	set of
those who are second group type	workers.


The idiomatic English:

Social critics like, for example, Erich	Fromm, David Riesman and Arlie Russell Hochschild consider the emotional
controlledness of employees a principal	example	of social unfreedom.  They describe the	compulsion to always be	smiling
and always act pleasingly.  The	books Escape from Freedom by From, The Lonely Crowd by Riesman,	and The	Managed	Heart by
Hochschild describe and	criticize this artificial control of emotion.

							   22


Pleasantly acting office workers and salespeople can be	classified in two different groups.  Workers of	the first group
usually	act kind to fellow-workers, and	act moderately pleasing	and helpful to customers and/or	clients.  Workers of the
second group always act	very pleasing, friendly, smiling, and polite to	customers and/or clients, and often act	harshly
or bossily to fellow-workers.  Workers of the first group consider their co-workers' feelings most important, and
consider often co-workers somewhat similar to a	family.	 They are workers internally oriented to the work-group.
Workers	of the second group consider the company's goals the most important, and regard	less pleasingly-behaving or less
fast-acting workers as lazy or unfriendly, and consider	co-workers' feelings less important.  Some of the first-group,
or work-group internally-oriented, workers regard workers of the second	group as ass-kissers and/or as enemies of other
workers.

Bob:  The English uses a lot of	idiom that must	not be translated literally into Lojban, which is one way in which T.
Peter stumbled.	 For example, "The Managed Heart" has nothing to do with "risna", the Lojban word for "heart", and a
figurative marker must be used,	or better yet, the tanru "krastu co cilmo".  T.	Peter had also included	"rutni"	in his
version	of that	title, based on	the description	of the book as describing artificial control of	emotion.  But the tanru
"the artificially-controlled heart" sounds like	a medical treatise on pacemakers.  Always look at alternate in-
terpretations of your writings.	 I believe that	the Lojbanic communication philosophy should be: "A Lojban speaker is
obligated to ensure against misunderstanding by	any listener, including	those from a culture other than	that of	the
speaker."  If a	message	is not understood because of a speaker's inaccuracy, non-specificity, or cultural assumption, it
is the speaker's fault.
     A related problem was with	the phrase near	the end	"ass-kisser".  The writer is not referring to a	physical act -
again a	figurative marker is needed.  But furthermore, in a culturally neutral language, you must NOT assume that even
such as	this is	an insult.  The	mabla is mandatory.
     Nora went for minimum change in correcting	T. Peter.  If I	had been translating the piece,	I would	have been less
literal	in the translation, describing the behavior which causes one to	be labelled with this derogative in an original
Lojbanic tanru.	 I believe that	all idiom should be similarly re-expressed, unless a premium is	being put on exact
matches	with the original, in which case, Nora's solution is acceptable.
     You-all have the right to disagree	with me, of course, on these matters.  I'm not running this show, the Lojban
community is.  So comments are welcome.

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
					      A	Syllogism by Lewis Carroll
					      translated by Sylvia Rutiser

ro da poi na mulno leka	melbi claxu ka'e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa
Each something that is complete	in quality beautiful-lack are innately capable of being	located	at a visitor-amused
room.
.i no da poi se	jadni lo silna cu mulno	leka sudga
No something which is adorned with some	salt is	complete in quality dryness.
.i no da poi na	mulno leka na cilmo ka'e se stuzi lo vitke se zdile kumfa
No something which is not-complete in property non-moistness is	innately capable of being located at a visitor-amused
room.
.i ro da poi lumci minji cu se stuzi lo	xamsi korbi
Each something that is-a-washing-machine is located at a sea-edge.
.i no da poi se	zbasu fi lo calku jemna	cu mulno leka melbi claxu
No something which is made from	some shell-gems	is complete in quality beautiful-lack.
.i ro da poi se	stuzi lo xamsi korbi cu	se jadni lo silna
Each something that is located at a sea-edge is	adorned	with some salt.

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob's expansion	and correction:

					leflogji nabmi ci'a la lu,is. keral. vau
			    Symbol-logic problems, written by the one called Lewis Carroll.

ni'osa'a faisa'a
New topic (this	is not really there) Continuing	(this is not really there). [...]

ni'o de'e se cmima lo nalsucta jufra noi zo'e stidi lenu ke'a selru'a  co nibypoi.  .i lo se nibli cu se facki ko

							   23


New topic:  The	following are sets of not-abstract statements, such that, incidentally,	someone	suggests the-state-of
their being-assumptions	of-type	logical-entailment-sequence.  The logical conclusions are to-be-discovered by you
(Imperative!).

ni'osa'a faisa'a
New topic (this	is not really there) Continuing	(this is not really there). [...]

ni'o muremo'o tu'e
New topic; (52)	{

pamai ro da poi	na mulno leka claxu loika melbi	cu selcu'i co selra'e selstu lo	vitke nunzdi kumfa
1. Each	something which	is not whole in	the quality of lacking Beauty is-a-permitted-thing of-type retainedly-located-at
a visitor-amusing room.

.ije remai no da poi se	jadni lo silna cu su'oroi mulno	leka sudga
(and) 2. No something which is-adorned-with some salt is at-least-some-times complete in quality dryness.

.ije cimai no da selcu'i .ei co	selra'e	selstu lo vitke	nunzdi kumfa gi'enai mulno leka	na cilmo
(and) 3. No something is-a permitted-thing (Obligation!) of-type retainedly-located-at a visitor-amusing room and-not
[as well as not] is-complete in	quality	of non-moistness.

.ije vomai ro da poi jinru minji cu roroi selra'e selstu lo xamsi korbi
(and) 4. Each something	which is-an-immerser-machine is-always retainedly-located-at a sea edge.

.ije mumai no da poi se	zbasu fi lo calku jmepilka cu mulno leka claxu loika melbi
(and) 5. No something which is-made-from some shell gem-crust is complete in quality of	lacking	Beauty.

.ije xamai ro da poi selra'e selstu lo xamsi korbi cu bapu'i se	jadni lo silna
(and) 6. Each something	which is retainedly-located-at a sea-edge will-be-capable-of-and-have-already been-adorned-with
some salt.

tu'u
}

ni'o ru'u roda dacti  .ije ly .abu. du lu'elu mulno leka claxu loika melbi li'u	 .ije ly by. du	lu'elu jinru minji li'u
.ije ly	cy. du lu'elu se jadni lo silna	li'u  .ije ly dy. du lu'elu selra'e selstu lo xamsi korbi li'u	.ije ly	.ebu. du
lu'elu se zbasu	fi lo calku jemna pilka	li'u  .ije ly xy. du lu'elu mulno leka sudga li'u seisa'a ri mintu leka	sudga
.ije ly	ky. du lu'elu selcu'i co selra'e selstu	lo vitke nunzdi	kumfa li'u
New topic:  (I assume!)	Each something is a thing.  (and) a = symbol-for "is complete in quality of lacking Beauty".
(and) b	= symbol-for "is-an-immerser-machine". (and) c = symbol-for "is-adorned-with some salt". (and) d = symbol-for
"is retainedly-located-at a sea-edge". (and) e = symbol-for "is-made-from some shell gem-crust". (and) x = symbol-for
"is-complete in	quality	of non-moistness" [editorial metalinguistic statement not really there:	this (the quality of
non-moistness) is the same as the quality of dryness.] (and) k = symbol-for "is-a-permitted-thing of-type retainedly-lo-
cated-at a visitor-amusing room".


ni'osa'a faisa'a
New topic (this	is not really there) Continuing	(this is not really there). [...]

						       ni'o danfu
					  New topic:  (Observative!) Answers.

.isa'a faisa'a
(this is not really there) Continuing (this is not really there). [...]

.i muremo'o ni'ida'uku ro da poi jinru minji cu	na se zbasu fi le calku	jemna pilka
(52) Necessitated by the-distant-preceding statements, each something which is-an-immerser-machine is-not made-from some
shell gem-crust.

							   24


[Note, that in this translation, I had to improvise a way of expressing	"[...]", or an indication of text omitted.  We
will probably add a discursive for this, which will be more explicit than the method I used in this translation.
	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the	original is:

					    Symbolic Logic, by Lewis Carroll

...

Sets of	Concrete Propositions, proposed	as Premises for	Sorites.  Conclusions to be found.

...

							   52

(1) Everything,	not absolutely ugly, may be kept in a drawing-room;
(2) Nothing, that is encrusted with salt, is ever quite	dry;
(3) Nothing should be kept in a	drawing-room, unless it	is free	from damp;
(4) Bathing-machines are always	kept near the sea;
(5) Nothing, that is made from mother-of-pearl,	can be absolutely ugly;
(6) Whatever is	kept near the sea gets encrusted with salt.

Univ. "things";	a = absolutely ugly; b = bathing machines; c = encrusted with salt; d =	kept near the sea; e = made of
mother-of-pearl; h = quite dry;	k = things that	may be kept in a drawing-room.	[Bob: note that	I didn't translate the
"things	that", which shouldn't have been there.]

...

							Answers

...

52. Bathing machines are never made of mother-of-pearl.

	  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
				    The	Open Window by Saki, translated	by Athelstan

Struck-through words in	the Lojban text	are elidable terminator	cmavo that are not required for	grammaticality,	but may
have been included for clarity to the reader, or for stylistic reasons.	 Their inclusion does not change the meaning of
the text.  The first paragraph has been	marked in accordance with our suggested	directions, as an example of the
procedure.  The	first few paragraphs of	the English have been parenthesized to show Lojban bridi sub-sentences in the
re-translation.


					  mele kalri canko ci'a	la sakis. vau
			     Pertaining	to the open window, written by the one called Saki.
						The Open Window, by Saki

ni'oni'o lu lemi rirme'i bazi dizlo klama doi mestr.natl. li'u se bacru	le clite ke jikca kufra	citni'u	noi ke'a li pamu
cu nanca  .i lu	.ei do troci lenu do cabi'ibaxipa renvi	lenu mi	jikca li'u se bacru

[ni'oni'o "lu [lemi rirme'i bazi dizlo klama doi mestr.natl.] li'u" se bacru le	clite ke jikca kufra citni'u noi <ke'a
li pamu	cu nanca >]  [.i "lu [.ei do troci lenu	{do cabi'ibaxipa renvi lenu {mi	jikca}}] li'u" se bacru]

     "My parental-sister will-shortly low-go, O	Mr. Nuttel." is	uttered	by the polite, socially-comfortable young-woman
such that (she is 15 years in duration).  "(Obligation!) You attempt that (you now-till-later1 survive (my
socializing))."	is uttered.
     "My aunt will be down presently, Mr. Nuttel," said	a very self-possessed young lady of fifteen; "in the meantime
you must try and put up	with me."

							   25


.i la fremtn.natl. goi fo'a troci lenu cusku le	drani poi ke'a cu ge cusku pluka le cavizi tunbyti'u gi	nake jikca xlali
le bavizi rirme'i  .i secau lenu fo'a cusku kei	fo'a senpi lenu	le porsi nu jikri'i vitke lei pu na penmi kei cu sidju
le xanka ve mikce poi fo'a ca troci co se mikce

[.i la fremtn.natl. =goi= fo'a troci lenu {cusku le drani poi <ke'a cu ge [cusku pluka le cavizi tunbyti'u] gi [nake
jikca xlali le bavizi rirme'i]>}]  [.i secau lenu {fo'a	cusku kei} fo'a	senpi lenu {le porsi nu	{jikri'i vitke lei pu na
penmi kei} cu sidju le xanka ve	mikce poi [fo'a	ca troci co se mikce]}]
Framton	Nuttel (he6) tries (to express the correct thing which is (both	(expressingly-pleasing to the right-here-now
sibling-daughter), and (not socially-bad for the future-right-here parent-sister))).  Without (his6 expressing [it]),
he6 doubts that	(the sequential	social-rite visiting to	previous not-meeters helps the anxiety-conditions-treated-for
which (he6 tries (to-be-treated-for))).
     Framton Nuttel endeavored to say the correct something which should duly flatter the niece	of the moment without
unduly discounting the aunt that was to	come.  Privately he doubted more than ever whether these formal	visits on a suc-
cession	of total strangers would do much towards helping the nerve cure	which he was supposed to be undergoing.

ni'o lu	ru'a mi	djuno ledo bavuza tcini	li'u lefo'a goi	le go'i	ku mensi pupu se bacru mu'i lenu fo'a ca binxo co bredi
lenu xabju klama le puxirejeva nurma ke	snura stuzi  .i	lu do bava jikca najenai tavla su'o jmive prenu	 .i ledo ni
xanka kei cu zenba ri'a	lenu ranji badri  .i da'i .ei mi ba dunda fi do	fe lei pemydjuxa'a be fe ro leva prenu poi pu
jikca se penmi mi  .i su'o ri cu sei dei jetnu befi leimi se morji se'u	pu mutce pluka li'u

ni'o ["lu [ru'a	mi djuno ledo bavuza tcini] li'u" le <fo'a =goi= le go'i ku> mensi pupu	se bacru mu'i lenu {fo'a ca
binxo co bredi lenu {xabju klama le puxirejeva nurma ke	snura stuzi}}]	[.i "lu	[do bava jikca najenai tavla su'o jmive
prenu]	[.i ledo ni {xanka kei}	cu zenba ri'a lenu {ranji badri}]  [.i da'i .ei	mi ba dunda fi do fe lei pemydjuxa'a be
fe ro leva prenu poi <pu jikca se penmi	mi>]  [.i su'o ri cu (sei dei jetnu befi leimi se morji	se'u) pu mutce pluka]
li'u"]
     "(I suppose!) I know your future-around-yonder situation."	his6 (the subject of the last sentence's) sister had-
previously uttered with-motive-that (he6 was simultaneously a becomer of-type prepared-for the-event-of	(dweller-going-
to the past2-there rural secure-places)).  "You	will-there socialize-not and not talk-to at-least-some living-persons.
Your amount-of (nervousness) increases caused-by being-(continually-sad).  (Actually!) (Obligation!) I will give to-you
the meeter-knower-letters to each of those-there persons which (socially-were-met-by me).  At-least-some of-them (those-
there persons) (This statement is true by-standard-of my remembrances) were much-pleasant-to."
     "I	know how it will be," his sister had said when he was preparing	to migrate to this rural retreat; "you will bury
yourself down there and	not speak to a living soul, and	your nerves will be worse than ever from moping.  I shall just
give you letters of introduction to all	the people I know there.  Some of them,	as far as I can	remember, were quite
nice."

ni'o la	fremtn.	puxiso'e pensi lu xu la	mezyz. sepltn. ne le ninmu poi fo'a dunda fi ke'a fe pa	le pemdjuxa'a ku'o cu
cmima lei pluka	li'u
     Framton pastmostly	thought	"Is it true that Mrs. Sappleton, the woman such-that he6 gives her one-of-the meeter-
knower-letters,	is-a-member-of the pleasant?"
     Framton wondered whether Mrs. Sappleton, the lady to whom he was presenting one of	the letters of introduction,
came into the nice division.

.i lu xu do pu penmi so'i le viza prenu	li'u preti fi le tunbyti'u mu'i	lenu ri	ca pajni leni na sance jikca kei le
banzu
"Is-it-true-that you met with many-of-the close-to-here	persons?" is-a-question-by the sibling-daughter	motivated-by she
(the sibling-daughter) simultaneously judges the-amount-of non-sound-socializing to-be the sufficient one.
     "Do you know many of the people round here?" asked	the niece, when	she judged that	they had had sufficient	silent
communion.

.i lu go'i ji'ino prenu	li'u se	bacru la fremtn.  .i lu	lemi mensi puviza xabju	la REKtoris. pu	le puzi	nanca vomei  .i
ra pu dunda su'o pemdjuxa'a befe su'o le viza prenu li'u  .i romoi jufra bacru ci'o lenu selbirti xenru
"It is true that (met-with) nearly-zero	persons." is uttered by	Framton.  "My sister previously-close-to-here inhabited
the Rectory, before the	recent-past year-foursome.  She	(my sister) gave at-least-some meeter-knower-letters-to	at-
least-some-of-the close-to-here	persons	[to me]."  (Observative.) Last-sentence	utterer	with-emotion the certainly-true
regretting.
     "Hardly a soul," said Framton.  "My sister	was staying here, at the Rectory, you know, some four years ago	and she
gave me	letters	of introduction	to some	of the people here."
     He	made the last statement	in a tone of distinct regret.

							   26


.i lu ju'e do djuno le ji'inomei xu lemi rirme'i li'u ranji jmina preti	se bacru le clite ke jikca kufra citni'u
"(I conclude!) You know	the nearly-nothingsome (Is this	true?) about my	parental-sister," is a continuingly-additional
question utterance by the polite type-of socializingly-comfortable toung-woman.
     "Then you know practically	nothing	about my aunt?"	pursued	the self-possessed young lady.

.i lu go'i lo su'emei po'u lera	cmene .e lera judri li'u tugni se danfu	le vitke  .i fo'a pensi	kucli lenu la
mezyz.sepltn. goi ko'u cu speni	gi'a mroselspe	.i da poi na kakne co se skicu zi'e pe le kumfa	cu stidi leka nanmu
xabju
"It is so (knowing-about) at-most-a-little-some	which-is someone-earlier's (her	= 'my parental-sister')	name and her
address," agreeably answers the	visitor.  He6 is-thinkingly-curious-about Mrs. Seppleton (her5)	is married and/or
deadly-bespoused.  Something that is not-capable of-type being described and which-pertains-to-the room	suggests man-
inhabitant-ness.
     "Only her name and	address," admitted the caller.	He was wondering whether Mrs. Sappleton	was in the married or
widowed	state.	An unidentifiable something about the room seemed to suggest masculine habitation.

.i lu leko'u goi ra banli betri	cu fasnu puca le pu nanca be li	ci seisa'a se cusku be le citno	 .i la'edi'u balvi lenu
ledo mensi vi xabju li'u vau
"Her5 which is the-one-referred-to-earlier grand tragedy occurs	before-during the past-years-duration of number	3
[metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not	actually quoted: expressed by the young	one].  This (the occurance) is
in-the-future of your sister here-inhabiting.
     "Her great	tragedy	happened just three years ago,"	said the child;	"that would be since your sister's time."

.i lu ki'a leko'u betri	vau li'u preti fi la framtn.  .i ki'u da fo le vive'a surla nurma stuzi	fa lei betri cu	simlu lo
fange
"Clarify: Her5 tragedy?" is-a-question by Framton.  Justified by something, under-conditions-of	the here-area
relaxingly-rural place,	tragedies seem-to-be strange things.
     "Her tragedy" asked Framton; somehow in this restful country spot tragedies seemed	out of place.

.i lu se lakne lenu do kucli lenu mu'i ma mi'a rinka lenu leva canko cu	ranji le kalri kei le mela aktobr. lecysoltei
li'u se	bacru le tunbyti'u noi ke'a ca farja'o le barda	fasyvroca'o noi	lamji le saurfoi
"Probable-that you are being-curious about the-state-whereby: for-what-motive me-and-others cause (the there-window
continuing-as the open one) under-conditions the October late-sun-time interval." is-uttered-by	the sibling-daughter,
who-incidentally she is	direction-showing the large french-door-window which-is-incidentally adjacent-to the grassy-
field.
     "You may wonder why we keep that window wide open on an October afternoon," said the niece, indicating a large
French window that opened onto a lawn.

.i lu .i'e leni	glare cu zmadu lo'e ni ca citsi	glare seisa'a se cusku be la fremtn.  .i ji'a xu le va canko fi	da ckini
fe le betri li'u vau
"(Reluctant acceptance!) The amount of warmth is more than the-typical amount-of present-season-warmth [metalinguisitic
narrative/editorial insert not actually	quoted:	expressed by Framton.].	 Also-is-it-true: the there-window, by some
relation, is-related-to	the tragedy."
     "It is quite warm for the time of the year," said Framton;	"but has that window got anything to do	with the
tragedy?"

lu tai lenu va canko pagre ku cazi le satci cibnanca purci ku ko'a goi ge leko'u speni gi leko'u re citno bruna	cu cliva
     zukte fi le leca djedi ku terdanti	nunkalte
     "By method	of the there-window passing-through, right-at-the-time-of the exactly three-year before	thing, they1,
     who are defined as	both her5 spouse and her5 two young-brothers, leavingly-acted-with-purpose-of the the-then-day's
     projectile-firing event-of-hunting.
     .i	ko'a ko'a noroi	xruti  .i ca lenu ko'a cu ragve	klama fo le rancimdre foldi fe leko'a selneirai	ke cpirsnaipe
     katstu kei	ro le cimei cu se ri'usrutu'o lo nurcau	rancimderke'a
     They1 themselves1 never returned.	(They never returned themselves.)  During the event of their1 across-going via
     the softly-moist-dirt field to their1 be-fond-most	type of	bird-snipe hunter-site,	each-of	the three-some is
     restrainingly-surrounding-swallowed by a secure-without softly-most-dirt-cavity.
     .i	ca le pu kufrydukti je carvi crisa sei se djuno	se'u loi stuzi poi ke'a	cu snura ca lei	drata nanca cu suksa je
     nalseljde nalsarji	 .i leko'a xadni cu noroi se facki  .i la'edi'u	kufrydukti pagbu li'u
     During the	in-the-past comfortably-opposite and rainy summer (it is known)	places which they are secure during
     other years are suddenly and not-warnedly non-supporters.	Their1 bodies are never	discovered.  That (that	their
     bodies are	never discovered) is the uncomfortably-opposite	part."

							   27


se bacru le tunbyti'u goi fo'e
is uttered by the sibling-daughter which defines she7.

.i le voksa be le citno	cazi binxo co ckaji leka jikca kufra na.e leka ci'orja'o co dirsre remna  .i fo'e bacru	lu la
     selke'i rirme'i cu	roroi krici lenu ko'a ba xruti ko'a ca lo ba djedi
     The voice of the young one	sometime-near-this becomes of-type characterized by socially-comfortable-ness-not and
     emotion-showingness of-type interruptingly-erringly human.	 She7 utters "Pitied Parent-Sister always believes that
     they1 will	return themselves1 during some future day.
     .i	ko'a noi se kansa le cmalu je bunre pangerku poi ke'a se cirko fa'u lenu ke'a kansa ko'a cu dzukla levi	nenri fo
     leva canko	ta'i le	purci po ko'a  .i la'edi'u cu krinu lenu le canko cu kalri ranji fi ro le vanci	pagbu pe ze'o le
     ctebixtei
     They1, incidentally accompanied by	the small and brown Spanish-dog	(spaniel) that it is lost associated-with-event-
     of	it accompanying	them1, are walkingly-going to this-here	inside via that-there window in-manner-of the past of
     theirs1.  This (the walkingly-going) is-the-reason-for the	window open-continuing during each of the evening-parts
     which-are until-the night-become-time-intervals.

     .i	la selke'i je selnei rirme'i goi ko'u puta'e tavla mi lesu'u cliva ne pu'e lenu	ge leko'u speni	goi ko'e cu
     kansa ponse leko'e	blabi je jacnalgre gacko'a noi ke'a dandu leko'e birka gi la ranis. po'u leko'u	citrai bruna goi
     ko'i cu sanga lu doi brtis. mu'i ma do plipe li'u noi roroi se sanga semu'i lenu zdifanza ko'u ku mu'i lenu ko'u
     xusra lenu	le nunsanga cu fanza ko'u
     Pitied-And-Liked Parental-Sister (her5) was-habitually talking to me about	the nature of leaving which-
     incidentally-is of-the-process-of both {her5 spouse (him2)	accompanyingly-possessing his2 white, water-not-
     penetrating, cover-coat, which-incidentally hangs-from his2 arm} and Ronnie, who-is her5 young-most brother (him3),
     singing, "O Bertie, with-what-motive, you leap?" which-incidentally always	is-sung	motivating the amusing-annoyance
     of	her5, and motivated-by her5 asserting that the singing annoys her5.
     [Bob: Yes - that was all one sentence.  The English would be equally confusing to someone who didn't know the
     language.	This one took a	lot of work on Athelstan's, Nora's, and	my part, to get	it to both parse and match the
     English.  Hopefully, few Lojban speakers will talk	in the manner of this young lady.  Given the difficulty	of the
     sentence, let me show it properly grouped according to our	method (Using subscripts in a sentence that is this
     complex may help you keep track of	the pieces.  While I'm not doing it, you can even subscript the	sumti within
     each bridi	so as to keep track of them.:
     [.i la selke'i je selnei rirme'i =goi= ko'u puta'e	tavla mi lesu'u	{cliva}	=ne= pu'e lenu {1ge <1leko'u speni =goi=
     ko'e cu kansa ponse leko'e	blabi je jacnalgre gacko'a noi <2ke'a dandu leko'e birka>2>1 gi	<3la ranis. =po'u=
     leko'u citrai bruna =goi= ko'i cu sanga "lu doi brtis. mu'i ma do plipe li'u" noi <4roroi se sanga	semu'i lenu
     {zdifanza ko'u} ku	mu'i lenu {ko'u	xusra lenu {le nunsanga	cu fanza ko'u}}>4>3}1]
     Did that help?  No?  Oh well!  It will eventually make sense.]

     .i	sei ko djuno be	la'edei	so'uroiku ca lei bifcau	je smaji vanci poi ke'a	simsa ti ku'o mi piso'aroi pencauji'i
     lenu ro ko'a ba dzugre leva canko li'u
     (Know the-referent-of-this-statement!) At-least-some-times, during	breeze-without,	quiet, evenings	that they (the
     evenings) are-similar-to this, I almost-always thinking-withoutly-opine-that the-event-of each-of-them will
     walkingly-penetrate that-there window."

     "Out through that window, three years ago to a day, her husband and her two younger brothers went off for their
day's shooting.	 They never came back. In crossing the moor to their favourite snipe-shooting ground they were all en-
gulfed in a treacherous	piece of bog.  It had been that	dreadful wet summer, you know, and places that were safe in
other years gave way suddenly without warning.	Their bodies were never	recovered.  That was the dreadful part of it."
Here the child's voice lost its	self-possessed note and	became falteringly human.  "Poor Aunt always thinks that they
will come back some day, they and the little brown spaniel that	was lost with them, and	walk in	at that	window just as
they used to do.  That is why the window is kept open every evening till it is quite dusk.  Poor dear Aunt, she	has
often told me how they went out, her husband with his white waterproof coat over his arm, and Ronnie, her youngest
brother, singing, 'Bertie, why do you bound?' as he always did to tease	her, because she said it got on	her nerves.  Do
you know, sometimes on still, quiet evenings like this,	I almost get a creepy feeling that they	will all walk in through
that window--".

ni'o fo'e sisti	tai lo cmalu nu	desku  .i la fremtn. surlybi'o va'o lenu le rirme'i cu so'irzu'edzukla le kumfa	nenri
tai lo gunma be	loi xernuncru pe mu'i lenu ko'u	lerci lenu ko'u	klama ti
     She7 ceases in-the-manner-of small-shaking.  Framton relaxingly-becomes under-conditions-of the parent-sister many-
act-walk-going to the room-inside in-the-manner-of a mass of Regret-utterings which-are	motivated-by her being late at
going here.

							   28


     She broke off with	a little shudder.  It was a relief to Framton when the aunt bustled into the room with a whirl
of apologies for being late in making her appearance.

.i lu mi pacna lenu la viras. capu zdile do li'u se bacru ko'u
"I hope	Vera has been amusing-to you." is-uttered-by her5.
     "I	hope Vera has been amusing you?" she said.


.i lu ra capu carmi cinri li'u se bacru	la fremtn.
"The earlier-referent (she) has-been intensely-interesting." is	uttered	by Framton.
     "She has been very	interesting," said Framton.

.i lu mi pacna lenu do na se fanza le kalri canko seisa'a sutra	se bacru be la mezyz. sepltn.  .i lemi speni ce	bruna
goi ko'a cu zvati le selxa'u bazi leinu	seldantysazri  .i ko'a roroi nerkla fo ta  .i ko'a pu bartu ca lei cimynalsai
foldi seni'i lenu ko'a ba galfi	fi lo naljinsa kalsa fe	lemi selke'i lolbu'u  .i simsa leka medo po'u loi nanmu	kei vau
xu li'u	vau
"I hope	that you are-not-annoyed-by the	open-window [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert	not actually quoted:
quickly-is-uttered-by Mrs. Seppleton].	My {spouse, brothers} (they1) are-at the-place-of-habitation immediately-after
the projectile-firer-operations.  They1	always in-come vi'a that-there.	 They1 were outside during the moist-non-
supporting-fields logically-necessitating-that they1 will modify, into non-clean chaos,	my pitied floor-cloth.
(Observative!) Similar-to the-qualities	which pertain-to you-who-are-Man.  (Is this sentence true?)
     "I	hope you don't mind the	open window," said Mrs.	Sappleton briskly; "my husband and brothers will be home
directly from shooting,	and they always	come in	this way.  They've been	out for	snipe in the marshes today, so they'll
make a fine mess over my poor carpets.	So like	you menfolk, isn't it?"

.i ko'u	gleki rajyta'a fi leinu	seldantysazri .e le cipni ka so'umei .e	leka cumki loi datka ca	le dunra  .i ga'a la
fremtn.	goi fo'a la'edi'u curve	ka nalpu'a   .i	fo'a camtcu je su'episo'emei bo	snada troci lenu fo'a galfi lenu terta'a
kei lo mroru'i ckamu nu	terta'a	 .i fo'a sanji lenu lefo'a selvi'e capu	su'episo'umei jundi kei	.e lenu	leko'u kanla
ru'i midyctarmu'u fo fo'a fi le	kalri canko .e levu saurfoi  .i	fo'a birti lenu	lefo'a vitke pe	ca leca	betri
nacykefydei cu xlafunca	cunkemdimnyfau
She5 happily continue-talks about the projectile-firer-operations and the bird few-some-ness and the possibility of Duck
during the winter.  To-observer	Framton	(he6), this (the happily-continue-talking) is pure unpleasantness.  He6
intensely-needs, and at-most-mostly succeedingly, tries	that he6 modifies the subject-talking-about into some dead-
spiritually-less subject-talking-about.	 He6 is-conscious-of his6 host has-been	at-most-a-little attending and her5 eyes
continuously middle-look-moving	from him to the	open window and	the-yonder grass-fields.  He6 is certain that his6 visit
that is-during the-present tragedy year-recurring-day is a-bad-luck random-type-of-fate-occurance.
     She rattled on cheerfully about the shooting and the scarcity of birds, and the prospects for duck	in the winter.
To Framton it was all purely horrible.	He made	a desperate but	only partially successful effort to turn the talk onto a
less ghastly topic; he was conscious that his hostess was giving him only a fragment of	her attention, and her eyes were
constantly straying past him to	the open window	and the	lawn beyond.  It was certainly an unfortunate coincidence that
he should have paid his	visit on this tragic anniversary.

.i lu lei mikce	cu tugni ri lenu ri mikce mi fo	lonu mulno surla .e lonu menli ci'ordu'e claxu .e lonu mi rivbi	roda poi
simsa lonu vlile slugu'a li'u nuzba fi la fremtn. noi ke'a cu jinvi le su'episo'imei kampu jifselkri po'u lenu loi roroi
penmi .e loi paroi cunpenmi cu nuzyxagji ro lo cmalu tcila be lei terbi'a .e lei termikce .e leiri rinka je velmikce  .i
lu sera'a lemi ctipla ru cu na mutce tugni li'u	se mi'acru fo'a
"The doctors agree with	themselves that	they treat me by complete-relaxing and mental emotional-excess being-without and
my avoiding all-somethings which are-similar-to	violent	muscle-working." is-news according-to Framton, who opines the
at-most-much-somely-common false-belief	which-is-that Never-Meeter and Once Chance-Meeter is news-hungry-for all small-
details	of the illnesses and their (the	illnesses) causes and treatments.  "Pertaining-to my eater-plan, the much-
earlier-mentioned not-muchly-agree" is additionally-said by him6.
     "The doctors agree	in ordering me complete	rest, an absence of mental excitement, and avoidance of	anything in the
nature of violent exercise," announced Framton,	who laboured under the tolerably widespread delusion that total
strangers and chance acquaintances are hungry for the least detail of one's ailments and infirmities, their cause and
cure.  "On the matter of diet they are not so much in agreement," he continued.


.i lu xu na go'i li'u se bacru la mezyz. sepltn. sepi'o	lo voksa poi cazi basti	lo nalselcni nunva'u  .i ko'u suksa lenu
binxo lo cikna jundi  .i go'i mu'inai le se bacru be la	fremtn.

							   29


"Is-it-true-that not-this (the not-much-agreement) is so." is uttered by Mrs. Seppleton, using a voice that just-then
replaces a not-interested breath.  She5	is sudden in becoming an alert-attender.  This (the sudden becoming) is	not-
motivated-by the utterance of Framton.
     "No?" said	Mrs. Sappleton,	in a voice which only replaced a yawn at the last moment.  Then	she suddenly brightened
into alert attention --	but not	to what	Framton	was saying.

.i lu ko'a vize'o klama	ca .uo ku seisa'a se laucru be ko'u se'u cazi le tcatytei  .i .ienaipei	ko'a simsa zo'e	poi ke'a
cimdre se gacri	ji'e le	kanla li'u vau
"They1 here-approachingly come now (Completion!) [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: is-
loudly-uttered-by Mrs. Sappleton], just-at the tea-time.  (Don't you agree?) that they1	are-similar-to some-thing(s)-
unspecified such-that they moist-dirtily are-covered up-to-limit the eye(s)."
     "Here they	are at last!" she cried.  "Just	in time	for tea, and don't they	look as	if they	were muddy up to the
eyes!"

.i la fremtn. piso'umei	desku ri gi'e carna zu'i le tunbyti'u sekai leka firsku	poi se djica fo'a lenu cusku leka
ci'orkansa jimpe  .i le	citno cu caicta	da pe vije'oza le kalri	canko sekai leka lo cfipu ka teprai cu se jarco	lefo'e
kanla  .i sekai	leka lenku jenca co velskicycau	nunte'a	ku la fremtn. carna le seltse gi'e catlu fa'a le se go'i
Framton	a-bit-ly shakes	himself	and rotates-around the-typical-axis in-the-direction-of	the sibling-daughter,
characterized-by facial-expressive-ness	which is-desired-by him6 for expressing	emotionally-together-with understanding-
ness.  The young one intense-looks at something	a-medium-ways-beyond-the-location-of the open window, characterized-by
the nature-of a	confused quality of fear-extreme being-shown-by	her7 eyes.  Characterized by cold-shockness of-type
description-without fear, Framton turns	on-axis	the sat-upon and looked	in-the-direction-of it (that which is intensely-
looked at by the young one).
     Framton shivered slightly and turned towards the niece with a look	intended to convey sympathetic comprehension.
The child was staring out through the open window with dazed horror in her eyes.  In a chill shock of nameless fear
Framton	swung round in his seat	and looked in the same direction.

.i va'o	le manbi'o vanci ku lo ci remtra goi ko'a cu dzukla fo le saurfoi vazai	le canko  .i roda po'u pa le cimei cu
bevri lo terdanti seni'a leda birka  .i	pa le cimei cu mi'arbe'i lo blabi kosta	noi dandu leri janco  .i lo tatpi ke
bunre pangerku ca vazi ranji leko'a jafti'e  .i	sekai leka sancau ku ko'a jbibi'o le zdani  .i lo ruble	je citno voksa
cu sagysku ra'i	lei manku fe lu	mi pu cusku lu doi brtis. mu'i ma do plipe li'u	li'u
In environment the dark-becoming evening, three	human-forms (they1) walkingly-come via the grassy-field	towards-near the
window.	 Each-something	which-is one-of	the three carries a gun	which-has-underneath its arm.  One-of the three
additionally-carries a white-coat, which hangs from its	(the one-of-the-three's) shoulder.  A tired type-of brown
Spanish-dog simultaneously near-there continues-at-being their1	foot-behind thing.  Characterized by sound-without-ness,
they1 near-become to the nest.	A weak,	young, voice singingly-expresses, from-source the dark,	"I said	'O Bertie, with-
what-motive, you leap?'."
     In	the deepening twilight three figures were walking across the lawn towards the window; they all carried guns
under their arms, and one of them was additionally burdened with a white coat hung over	his shoulders.	A tired	brown
spaniel	kept close to their heels.  Noiselessly	they neared the	house, and then	a hoarse young voice chanted out of the
dusk: "I said, Bertie, why do you bound?"

.i la fremtn. cilce jgari lefo'a grana .e lefo'a mapku	.i le zdacravro	.e le cmaroi kacplu .e le crane	folbimvro cu
kandi selzga velplu sepa'u lefo'a xalni	nu ze'o	bajra  .i lo relxilma'e	sazri noi ke'a klama fo	le dargu cu bai	nerbi'o
le spabi'u mu'i	lenu zu'i rivbi	lo bazi	nu janli
Framton	wildly-grasps his6 rod and his6	cap.  The nest-front-door, the small-rock car-route, and the front field-wall-
door, dimly observed route-points which-are-parts-of his6 panicky away-running.	 A two-wheeled-vehicle operator	who is
going along the	road forcedly inside-becomes the plant-wall motivated-by the typical-one's avoiding of an imminent
collision.
     Framton grabbed wildly at his stick and hat; the hall door, the gravel drive, and the front gate were dimly noted
stages in his headlong retreat.	 A cyclist coming along	the road had to	run into the hedge to avoid imminent collision.

.i lu vi stuzi mi'a doi	lami dirba seisa'a se bacru be le bevri	be le blabi cavykosta be'o noi ke'a nerkla fo le canko
se'u noi ke'a piso'imei	cimdre selgai  .i ku'i piso'e le cimdre	cu sudga  .i ma	sukybajykla le bartu ca	lenu mi'a vi
klama li'u
"Here sited are	me-and-others, O My Dear." [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial	insert not actually quoted: is-uttered-
by the carrier-of the white rain-coat, who in-comes via	the window], who are much-ly moist-dirt-ly covered.  In
contrast, most-of the moist-dirt is dry.  What suddenly-runningly-goes to-the outside during me-and-others at-here
coming?"

							   30


     "Here we are, my dear," said the bearer of	the white mackintosh, coming in	through	the window; "fairly muddy, but
most of	it's dry.  Who was that	who bolted out as we came up?"

.i lu fo'a goi lo traji	nalfadni nanmu po'u la mestr. natl. cu go'i seisa'a se bacru be	la mezyz. sepltn.  .i pu tavla
fi leri	nunbi'a	.enai lo drata gi'e sukli'a secau lo litli'avla	.a lo xervla ca	lenu do	vi klama  .i lakne jinvi lenu
fo'a pu	viska lo ru'ipre li'u
"(He6 who is) a	most not-ordinary man who is the-one-called Mr.	Nuttel did (suddenly-runningly-go) [metalinguisitic
narrative/editorial insert not actually	quoted:	is-uttered-by Mrs. Sappleton].	(Observative!) Talked about his	(Mr.
Nuttel's) illnesses and-not another-thing, and suddenly-left without <some polite-leaver-words or some regret-words>
when you at-here come.	(Observative!) Probably-opinion-holder that he6	saw a spirit-person."
     "A	most extraordinary man,	a Mr. Nuttel," said Mrs. Sappleton; "could only	talk about his illnesses, and dashed off
without	a word of good-bye or apology when you arrived.	 One would think he had	seen a ghost."

.i lu mi stidi lenu le pangerku	cu mukti seisa'a seke smaci'o bacru le tunbyti'u  .i fo'a fi mi	skicu fe lenu fo'a
camte'a	loi gerku  .i paroiku fo'a seke	jersi kalte vazaive'a lo mrofoi	pe vi le ri'emla be la ganjiz. fe lo cilce gerku
girzu  .i fo la'edi'u nitcu fa fo'a fe lenu caze'a le nicte cu stali vizi lo ninselkakpa mroke'a va'o lenu lei gerku ca
gekyki'a gi'e jdecisma gi'e sputu vau ve'ijega'u fo'a  .i la'ede'u cu banzu lenu roda xalni li'u
"I suggest that	the Spanish-dog	motivates [metalinguisitic narrative/editorial insert not actually quoted: is-uttered-
by-quiet-utterer the sibling-daughter].	 He6, to me, described that he intense fears Dog.  Once, he6 is	chasingly-
hunted,	near-into-over-a-medium-interval a dead-field which-is at the river-beside of the Ganges, by a wild-dog	group.
Under these (being chasingly-hunted) conditions, needed	he6 to during-through the-night	to stay	right-in a newly-dug
dead-hole in-environment the dogs then dog-crying and warn-smiling and spitting	in-small-area-and-above	him6.  These
(the events just described) suffice-for	all someones to	panic.
     "I	expect it was the spaniel," said the niece calmly; "he told me he had a	horror of dogs.	 He was	once hunted into
a cemetery somewhere on	the banks of the Ganges	by a pack of pariah dogs, and had to spend the night in	a newly	dug
grave with the creatures snarling and grinning and foaming just	above him.  Enough to make anyone lose their nerve."

.i leka	finti loi cizra	lisri ze'i lo cmalu temci cu ka	fo'e se	certu steci
The quality of inventiveness in	bizarre	stories	smally-within small-time-intervals, is-the-nature-of her7 expert-
special-ness.
     Romance at	short notice was her speciality.


					    Letters, Comments, and Responses

						    from Greg Higley

...
  In lesson 4A,	page 9,	your usage is not only illogical and ultimately	ambiguous, but based upon analogous English
structures which are just as ambiguous.
...
  It is	possible to make sentences in Lojban that are grammatically valid but semantically meaningless:	 mi klama lo
bridi.	A meaning might	be conceivable for this	sentence, but would it have any	relevance?  The	point I	am trying to
make is	this: For the Lojban grammar to	 be valid, all sumti must be treated equally. (the 'symmetry principle')

							   31


  Commencing further, we must assume that any sumti must    statement is: "mi .ebabo la	djan. klama" ("I, and later
have the same grammar after a sumti tcita cmavo, because    John, go.").
the grammar must transcend meaning in order to be	      Greg's argument of symmetry is not relevant.  Symmetry is
unambiguous.  You have used the	sumti tcita cmavo in a way  an aesthetic principle, not	a linguistic one.  Most
that violates those standards.				    languages fail the symmetry	test, and we have not made it a
  Apparently - according to your usage - there are two	    factor in Lojban design.
distinct ways that a sumti can be treated after	"ba", "ca",   Also, all	questions regarding the	interpretation of a
and "pu".  The first way is to define the tagged sumti as   grammatical	string in Lojban are considered	semantic
being an event temporarily relative to the modified bridi.  questions.	Lojban is grammatically	unambiguous in that its
In other words,	the modified bridi is 'marked' as occurring grammar, defined as	the set	of rules that generate all
before,	after, or at the same time as the tagged sumti.	    valid strings, is so constructed that no string can	be
  The other way	is to treat the	tagged sumti as	having some generated by two different applications of the rules.  Loj-
kind of	implicit structure parallel to that of the modified ban's grammar is not defined as a transformational grammar,
bridi.	An example:					    and	sentences that mean the	same thing are semantically
							    equivalent,	not grammatically so.  Thus my last expression
		   mi klama pu la djan.			    of his example, using ".ebabo" is not grammatically	equiva-
							    lent to the	others,	even if	semantically so.
which is assumed to be:					      Notwithstanding all this,	Greg, who asked	this question
							    within a few weeks of receiving the	lessons, has
	      mi klama pu lenu la djan.	klama		    contributed	by finding an error that others	with more
							    experience have missed.  This is why 75 of you have	the
  The tagged sumti is presumed to be parallel to the x1	    lessons already, before we publish the textbook.  We need
sumti of the same bridi.  But this leads to some problems.  your help to catch our errors and confusing	explanations.
Look at	the following:					    You	needn't	be expert in the language to point out that
							    something doesn't make sense to you.
		   mi klama pu le ritli
							      Greg asked a couple of other questions in	his letter.  He
  If we	treat this sentence as being analogous to the first asks about the interpretation of such sentences as:
example, above - and we	must do	this to	maintain the wall
between	semantics and grammar -	then we	must assume it to	       "mi viska le nanmu vi lei so'i tricu"
be elliptically	representing:					    I see the man among	the-mass-of many trees.

	    mi klama pu	lenu le	ritli cu klama		      He asks whether this means that the observer is in the
	       ?I go before the	ritual goes		    trees, the man, or both.  The answer, implied by the same
							    argument he	used above, is that the	event of seeing	takes
  This leads to	some confusion.	 We could imagine a ritual  place in the trees (which probably but not necessarily
going somewhere	- a collection of people which I'm	    implies that both are there).  The other interpretations
describing as a	'ritual' going to some destination from	    are	expressed as:
some location, etc.  But this is not what I'm trying to
say.  I	mean that my act of going occurs before	the ritual	     "mi viska le nanmu	ne vi lei so'i tricu"
OCCURS (not 'goes').  I	am not suggesting anything about	 I see the man who is among the-mass-of	many trees
the motion of the ritual, but "mi klama	pu le ritli is
clearly	open to	that interpretation based upon your usage.  and:
How do I know when there IS an implicit	structure and when
there is NOT one?						    "mi	ne vi lei so'i tricu cu	viska le nanmu"
  The only way to remove this ambiguity	without	adding new	   I, among the-mass-of	many trees, see	the man.
cmavo to represent implicit parallel structures	is to use
'full' phrases such as "mi klama pu lenu la djan. klama"
instead	of the unstable	logic of "mi klama pu la djan."

Bob responds:  Of course Greg is right.	 The examples on
that page and a	couple places elsewhere	in Lesson 4 are
malglico.  "mi klama pu	la djan." must mean that "I go
before 'the thing called John' occurs",	which is an
unlikely statement though potentially meaningful.  Greg's
proposed alternative, "mi klama	pu lenu	la djan. klama", is
a correct phrasing, though not the only	one.  You need to
study Lesson 5 to get the shorter "mi ne pu la djan. klama"
("I, before John, go.").  Another, nearly identical

							   32


  This is also covered in Lesson 5, though I'm not sure	how is that there are many languages, including	French,	where
clearly.						    the	sound will not be heard	except possibly	between	two
							    vowels.  We	also have to avoid confusion with the similar
  Greg also asks how to	translate something such as "The    'x'.
sun moves across the sky." which is a false statement in      Note that, if a native language speaker has difficulty
our physical world, but	is apparently true to a	non-	    with the 'h' sound,	they are permitted to use another non-
educated observer.					    Lojban unvoiced consonant instead; the most	likely such
  There	are a couple of	answers	to this	one.  The	    choice is the /th/ of "thistle".  There have been questions
'observational'	discursive "za'a" indicates that the	    as to why we do not	have this sound	in our alphabet.  One
statement is made as a result of personal observation.	    reason is its relative infrequencies among non-English
This could be made explicit as "mi zgana lenu le solri cu   languages; the other is this use as	an alternative to 'h'
klama fo le tsani se ragve" (I observe that the	sun is a    for	'.
go-er via route	the sky	acrossed-thing.) which puts the	      4. Actually, since the Arabic alphabet is	not the	Roman
movement in a "lenu" clause; these latter are slippery in   alphabet, the glottal stop in Arabic is not	represented by
truth determination, since anything using the article "le"  an apostrophe - although indeed the	Arabic letter looks
refers to something by description.  If	I describe a cat    like one.  On the other hand, the Greeks, who after	all
sitting	in my lap as "lenu le solri cu klama fo	le tsani se invented the word, use the apostrophe for none other than
ragve" in the above statement, the statement is	true if	I   the	'rough breathing' sound, and in	a roughly similar
observed the cat in my lap, and	the sun	is totally	    context.
irrelevant.
  A third way, which avoids such nonsense, is to use	      The other	issue affecting	the ' is its effect on stress
"simsa"	as the selbri, to make the apparentness	explicit.   syllable determination.  Tommy Whitlock, who was involved
Then it	doesn't	matter whether you use "lenu" or "lonu"	to  in our original decision to	add the	', has proposed	that
describe the sun's motion - the	claim is the appearance	of  the	two syllables divided by an ' be treated as one
the motion, not	the motion.				    syllable for determining penultimate stress.  He reasons
							    that we were using the ' primarily to create a recognizable
							    diphthong of sounds	that normally are not stable as
		 from various people on	'		    diphthongs.	 Thus "a'a", without the ', would be
							    indistinguishable from "a"	in some	contexts.
  We've	had a variety of comments on the ', which fall into   Tommy is right about the original	motive for ', but Nora,
two categories.	 Most such remarks ask us to drop it, or    Athelstan, and Bob are all opposed to this change.	One
use the	letter 'h' to stand for	it.  Indeed we do so in	the reason is that it is a change to the baseline to fix "what
machine	grammar, which is written according to C program-   isn't broken" - there is no	clear problem with what	we
ming language conventions.  Not	surprisingly, all of those  have.  More	importantly, it	has been pointed out that
who have proposed deleting the ' are C programmers.  One of stressed syllables would not necessarily be	any easier to
the arguments raised is	in fact	that C doesn't consider	the say, or to pick out	of the speech stream, and in fact, the
' to be	alphabetic.  It	has also been pointed out that the  change could result	in unstable phonetics.
' is used to represent a glottal stop in Arabic, which is     The advantage would be in	recognizing a word like
exactly	the opposite of	what we	are trying to convey with   "ga'unrai" (gah-HOON-rai) =	"highest", where the stress on
the mark in Lojban (you	cannot put a pause or a	glottal	    the	/'un/ syllable makes the components unrecognizable.  By
stop where an '	occurs between two vowels.		    Tommy's proposal, the /ga'u/ would be treated as a single
  There	are several arguments for our current practice.	    syllable for stress	determination (GAH-HOON-rai); both
  1. The ' is a	buffering sound	which is not a consonant    'syllables'	would be equally stressed.  The	advantage is
insofar	as the morphology is concerned.	 For people (as	    also its disadvantage.  Linguistically, it seems likely
opposed	to computers) to learn the language, it	is nice	to  that Tommy's "ga'unrai" and	"gaurai" (GAUN-rai)= "doing-
have the generalization	that cmavo are of the forms CV,	    most" would	be likely to degenerate	together.  Even	worse
CVV, and CV'V.	Since most people (as opposed to computers) would be a word like "ci'abra" (shee-HAH-brah) = writing-
think of 'h' as	a consonant, using 'h' would make these	    apparatus, which would be pronounced (SHEE-HAH-brah) under
basic patterns harder to recognize, and	the rule harder	to  Tommy's proposal.  I find it difficult to say this word,
teach.							    stressing both adjacent syllables, and not turn the	final
  2. Since ' is	a buffering sound that is primarily a	    vowel into that English nemesis, the schwa.
pronunciation guide, it	should look like the other	      Debate is	welcome	on these points, and other proposals
pronunciation guide lerfu, which are . and ,  Remember that are	welcome, too.  However,	better justification will be
none of	these are punctuation marks.			    required in	order to increase enthusiasm for a potential
  3. If	we used	'h', people would get the idea that you	can change.
use it for Lojbanizing any English 'h',	anywhere you can
use any	other letter.  This is also not	true.  ' can only
go between two vowels.	Thus Michael Helsem's name must	be		 How Many gismu	Does Loglan Need?
Lojbanized as xelsem. or .elsem. and not as *'elsem.  The			 by Jeff Prothero
reason why we left 'h' out of the regular Lojban alphabet

							   33


  Bob's	note:  Jeff's original used a lot of jargon from    ining the current loglan vocabulary, which represents the
earlier	periods	in Loglan history; I have updated these	    result of a	practical investigation	of this	question
terms to the current Lojban words to minimize confusion	on  stretching back at least as	far as Basic English, with its
his key	points.	 However, it is	clear that Jeff	is	    vocabulary of approximately	850 words.
attempting to make a statement not just	limited	to our	      The overwhelming majority	of loglan lujvo	contain	two
Lojban efforts.						    rafsi selected from	a gismu	list of	roughly	1000 choices.
							    1,000 * 1,000 = 1,000,000 -- the current gismu set is used
  Loglan was crafted in	the 1950s.  Like any good	    to map concept space into about a million regions.	Another
craftsman, Jim Brown looked at the best	designs	he knew	of  line of evidence comes from	the game of Twenty Questions,
(European languages and	logic notation,	mostly), took the   in which player A is allowed twenty	yes/no questions to
intuitively pleasing features from each, and tried to	    identify something selected	in advance by player B.
combine	them to	produce	something workable.  The result	    Countless hours invested in	this game have settled on
could fairly be	characterized as the first human language   twenty questions as	a fair number to identify an arbitrary
worth criticizing.					    object.  Twenty yes/no questions (twenty bits of informa-
  Three	decades	later, craftsmen have largely been replaced tion) suffice to distinguish two to	the tenth objects,
by engineers, who are inclined to replace rule-of-thumb	    suggesting a concept space of size 1,048,576.  Clearly, the
imitation by design and	analysis from fundamental	    agreement of these two lines of reasoning to within	four
principles whenever possible.  If human	language design	    percent is due more	to chance than skill!  But this	same
were an	engineering discipline,	what fundamental principles agreement does give	us some	confidence that	the required
would language engineers work from?  What sort of	    resolution of our map of concept space is on the order of
characteristics	would they try to optimize?  How close to   one	million	regions.
optimum	are current designs?  Let's take a shot	at	      So we have reduced our question to:  How many gismu are
imagining how such an engineer would tackle a specific	    needed to map concept space	into one million distinct
issue such as design of	the gismu vocabulary.  Even more    regions?  We presume the map is built by assigning each
specifically, what is the optimum number of words in such a gismu some portion of concept space, and then intersecting
vocabulary?						    these regions.  The	answer turns out to depend on how we
  Any sort of precise analysis requires	some precise	    pick our gismu.  The smaller your tiles are, the more tiles
assumptions, typically oversimplified and somewhat	    it takes to	tile a given room.  In vaguely similar fashion,
arbitrary.  We need to decide what the function	of the	    the	more specific each gismu is, the more gismu you	need to
gismu vocabulary is, and what measure we are trying to	    provide the	required million regions.
optimize. Let us concentrate on	the rafsi system, and	      Without getting too far into information theory, we can
suppose	that the purpose of the	gismu vocabulary is to	    note that the ideal	solution consists of twenty mutually
provide	the building blocks for	the lujvo vocabulary:  Log- orthogonal gismu, each (like yin/yang) covering about half
lan's thousand-odd gismu serve to provide mnemonic names    of concept space.  By allowing all combinations of these
for the	tens of	thousands of words which (will eventually)  twenty gismu, we would generate the	required million poten-
form the working vocabulary of the loglanist.  For lack	of  tial lujvo.	 Each lujvo would, on the average, contain half
a better idea, we may suppose that the criterion to be op-  (ten) of the gismu,	so the current concatenate-the-gismu
timized	is the time required for a student of the language  style of lujvo construction	would not be practical -- if
to learn the gismu vocabulary, and we may further assume    each gismu were assigned a Consonant-Vowel sequence, the
that this learning time	is proportional	to the number of    average lujvo word would run to ten	syllables!  This is a
words in the gismu vocabulary.	That is, we assume that,    trivial problem -- it is easy to construct a positional
everything else	being equal, the fewer gismu the student    bit-string encoding	which will reduce the average lujvo to
has to learn, the better.  How many gismu do we	really	    two	syllables.
need?							      The interesting problem is finding a satisfactory	set of
  Clearly, we need a clear notion of the function of the    twenty lujvo. Each must be much more general than any of
gismu set. What's in a name?  In a word: a mnemonic.  A	    the	current	set of lujvo --	each must cover	about half of
loglan lujvo certainly does not	define the concept it	    conceptual space.  The Chinese (?) concept of yin/yang is a
labels,	but is does classify that concept.  The	set of	    good starting point.  Everything, but everything, seems to
gismu do not constitute	a basis	vector set spanning concept be either yin or yang, about half each way.	 One needs
space, but they	do provide a Dewey Decimal System	    twenty such	concepts, linearly independent of each other.
cataloguing concept space.  In essence,	the gismu set	    The	current	set of 1000 gismu can be used as a development
provides a coordinate system for concept space.	 The lujvo  tool:  One needs to	find twenty concepts, each of which is
name we	assign a loglan	concept	does not identify the exact TRUE of about half of the current gismu and	FALSE of the
position of that concept in concept space, but it does	    remainder.	These twenty concepts must be independent:
identify the general area it lives in.			    given any two concepts A and B from	the set, about a
  That seems to	answer the qualitative question	of what	the quarter of the 1000	current	gismu should satisfy both A and
gismu set does,	but leaves in its wake a corresponding	    B, about a quarter should satisfy A	but not	B, and so forth
quantitative question:	How fine a map of concept space	do  for	the other two combinations.
we need?  This is an empirical question, and demands an	      If anyone	makes any progress toward constructing such a
empirical answer.  One way of approaching this is by exam-  twenty-gismu set, I	would be delighted to hear about it.

							   34


In the meantime, we at least have a solid quantitative	      Jeff has done a reductio ad absurdum on the centuries-old
claim to make for loglan:  its gismu list is at	most fifty  philosophical attempt to a priori divide the universe into
times harder to	learn than is logically	necessary!	    categories (the basis for all of the world's artificial
							    languages that are a priori	systems).  Lojban is a priori
					      Jeff Prothero only to the	extent it had to be in order to	be independent
					  221 SW 153rd #194 of culture.	 Efficiency was	not, and should	not be,	the
					  Seattle, WA 98166 goal; lest Lojban fall below some minimum level of
							    redundancy needed to make human communication feasible.
							      Lojban is	a human	language; let it remain	one.
Bob:  Alas, I think Jeff is seeing making much from
coincidences.  The reason why about 1000 gismu exist in
Lojban,	Basic English, etc., is	very simple; it	is the			       Mini Grammar Lessons
round number closest in	size to	that of	the 'basic'
vocabulary needed to get by minimally in any foreign	    Space and time will, by necessity make these discussions
language, and thus demonstrated	in history as being a	    abbreviated, but we	have noticed some consistent problems
reasonably learnable number of root words.  To some extent  among students and correspondents trying to	write in
also, there is feedback	between	word-lists.  If	someone	    Lojban.
generates a longer list, there is pressure to explain why
there are more words needed than in the	previous lists.
  Jeff's analysis of semantic space as a bunch of				       On du
categories, each with its own word, has	been proposed by
many people, but is not	universally accepted as	a paradigm.   On "du": avoid it	- like the plague.  DO NOT TRANSLATE
Words may be needed for	larger areas of	semantic space as   THE	ENGLISH	IS AS "du".  The cmavo stands roughly for a
well as	smaller	ones, and these	spaces may need	to overlap. mathematical equal sign, and you don't go strewing equal
But such an analysis is	arguable as well.		    signs around your English prose, do	you?
  The argument may be put more forcefully:  while most	      Almost always, the English "is" marks the	following word
individuals can	use 20 questions to narrow down	a concept   as the main	"predicate" if English were a predicate
in the game, this is a round number and	hence to be	    language.  Lojban is, so make that word or phrase the
reasonable.  10	questions is clearly too small;	30 would be selbri.  Then translate the	"is" as	either "cu" or "ca"
too large.  I note that	probably no person actually has	a   depending on whether you have a good reason	to specify
vocabulary of 1	million	words though.  It is only when you  present or simultaneous (with the event of the previous
take the union of words	used by	all speakers of	a language  sentence) tense.  (Unnecessary tense expression should also
that you get much larger than 1	million, especially when    be avoided in Lojban; it seldom is relevant	to meaning.)
jargon words are included.  There are more than	1 million     In text, "du" has	use only to define a word or phrase.
words in English.  In fact there are more than 1 million    In a self-introduction: "mi	du la bob.", you are defining
species	of plant and animal, so	words for these	alone would "mi".  You can also	use "du" to define anaphora such as
exceed Jeff's limit, but they aren't in	use by everyone.    "ko'a" - it's the only way to do so	when you have only
(In fact, '20 questions' has unwritten rules about speci-   studied the	first couple of	lessons.
ficity of concept and use of jargon.)			      Otherwise, almost	always,	one sumti of a "du" bridi will
  Even if there	were exactly (1020) concepts in	the	    be a quoted	word or	string,	or a lerfu.  See my version of
semantic space,	this does not mean that	20 gismu would	    the	Carroll	syllogism for an example of this.
suffice.  People divide	some areas of semantic space more
finely than they do others, because human endeavor is not a
uniform	spectrum.  Thus	there is probably no orthogonal	set			       On cu
that would come	close to achieving what	Jeff has in mind.
  Something similar has	been attempted.	 Paul Doudna has      "cu" is a	separator.  It doesn't mean anything (when I
reported on 'Wordtree'tm, a published attempt with less	    said just now to translate "is" as "cu", I did so because
than 100 gismu roots and their opposites.  Every word in    of grammatical role, not because of	meaning.
the list is expressed as a compound of two simpler ones.      In a simple sentence, there will be no more than 1 "cu"
It's neat to trace out the composition of a fairly concrete in the sentence, immediately before	the main selbri.  In
term - you'll find the string to be hundreds of	components  fact, there	will always be one there, implicitly.  The
long.  But not practical, and the decomposed root set	    rules say that you can elide (leave	out) "cu" if it	doesn't
doesn't	in the least suggest the result.		    cause ambiguity.  Only experience will tell	you all	the
  But even if it were possible to devise 20 orthogonal	    times when such elision is possible, so when in doubt leave
roots for all of language, Jeff's proposed compounding	    it in.
method fails the test of language.  Yes	a computer could      "cu" does	not occur between sumti.  It does not occur
bit-encode and generate	short composites.  But human beings after the selbri to	separate it from the following sumti.
can't.	Lojban rafsi are easily	recognizable as	to what	    The	following sumti	is always identifiable by either an
they represent;	 Jeff's	composites would need to be	    anaphora pronoun or	a descriptor like "le",	so no separator
analyzed carefully to pick them	apart to the roots.	    is needed.

							   35


  "cu" is very useful.	Given its very limited role in the    Now if the tanru you want	to express doesn't fit this
sentence, it can be used to close off some of the most	    nice pattern, you may need "ke".  Relatively common	in a 4-
hideously complex grammatical constructs before	the main    place tanru	is the grouping	"(a b) (c d)", where you are
selbri,	and to do so completely	unambiguously.	in fact,    really making two tanru to express different ideas that are
that is	why it is in the language: to make it easier for a  non-simple,	then using those pieces	to make	the more
reader or listener to find that	all important selbri that   complex tanru.  An example might be	"zoology textbook".
indicates just what the	speaker	is trying to say.	    "Zoology" is "animal-science", "textbook" is "student-
  "cu" does occur elsewhere in a sentence, IF the sentence  book".  The	combined tanru is "(animal-science)-(student-
is complex.  Most Lojban expressed by the more advanced	    book)", but	by left	grouping, you would get	"((animal-
students tends to be run at a 2nd or 3rd level of iterative science)-student)-book".  By using "ke" in the middle, you
complexity, so this may	happen quite frequently.  When does get	the grouping you want: "danlu saske ke ckule cukta" or
it so occur?						    "(a	b) ke (c d)".
  When a sumti in a sentence internally	includes a sentence   "ke" wouldn't be needed, though, if the right pair in the
either as a relative clause ("noi" or "poi", or	as an	    tanru were made into a lujvo; you now have a left-grouped
abstracted clause (lexeme NU), that internal sentence is a  "(a	b) c".	"danlu saske cu'ecku" works fine without "ke".
bridi just like	the main sentence.  Thus it may	need a "cu" Consider making any	the right side of a right-grouped con-
to mark	its selbri.  This is how you get more than one "cu" struct into	a lujvo; they usually are natural candidates
in a sentence.						    for	doing so, and it eliminates the	need for the "ke".
  Actually, 'natural' Lojban expression, sumti in relative    Don't use	"ke" when you don't need to.  It flags in your
and abstract clauses tend to be	of simpler construction	    reader/listener's mind that	you are	doing something
(e.g. anaphora or simple descriptions) than sumti in the    abnormal.  If you then have	only a single word after the
main sentence.	This is	why Lojban tends to stop at 2nd	or  "ke" you will confuse your listener, even though it	is
3rd orders of complexity.  Anything more complex tends to   grammatical	to use "ke" with a single brivla after it - so
play spaghetti with your brain.	 (Translations of English   don't do it.
tend to	run 3 or 4 levels deep in complexity if	you try	to    "ke" is like a left-parenthesis grouping marker.	Note
match the style	as well	as content; English writers tend to that there is a right marker for "ke", which is "ke'e".
use complex run-on sentences - see the monstrosity in Saki  (Those with	lessons	will have "kei"; this was changed after
for an example with 5 levels of	complexity.  If	style isn't they were written.	Change these to	"ke'e" in your copies,
critical to the	translation, break it up into digestible    as you find	them, but only where they are closing "ke" in
chunks.)						    tanru.)  "ke'e" is almost never seen.  Even	when you do
  Normally, if you are reading or listening in a sumti,	    need non-left grouping, the	right side typically is	a
running	into the "cu" tells you	the sumti is over and you   simple pair, or a left-grouped triple - thus the "ke'e"
are moving on to the selbri.  In a complex sentence, it	is  would go at	the end	of the whole tanru.  You can always put
nearly as simple.  If you are in the middle of a complex NU these final	"ke'e" in.  But	they seldom provide any	useful
abstraction or relative	clause and you run into	a "cu",	    information	to the listener/reader - so don't.  The	only
just ask yourself:  "Have I run	into the main selbri of	    time you should use	ke'e in	a 4-place tanru	is in the
this clause yet.  If not, the "cu" marks the clause of the  grouping "(a ke(b c))ke'e d", where	without	the "ke'e" you
selbri.	 If so,	then you've ended the sumti, popped out	to  would have "a ke((b	c) d).
the next lower level of	complexity, and	repeat the ques-      You can't	use a "ke'e" without a matching	"ke" preceding
tion.  If you get out to the main sentence, you	have found  it.	 Not grammatical.
the main selbri.  This is easy once you	get the	hang of	it,   On a related point:  if, in a tanru, you need a "nu" or
believe	it or not.					    "ka" or "ni" clause	that involves only a single brivla, or
							    even a simple tanru, this is a prime candidate to make into
							    a lujvo.  For example, in my version of the	Carroll
			   On ke			    syllogism, I had the tanru "visitor-amusement-room", where
							    "amusement"	is the event abstraction of "zdile".  If I had
  "ke" is used mostly in tanru,	and overrides left-	    not	made the "nu" event into a lujvo, the tanru would have
grouping.  Normally, Lojban constructs,	including tanru,    been "vitke	nu zdile kei kumfa" where the "kei" is needed
are left-grouping.  This is convenient,	since most tanru    to close off the "nu" so that it doesn't absorb the	"kumfa"
you come up with will make more	sense when left-grouped.    (and any trailing sumti) into the abstraction.  I get rid
But in the occasional event of right-grouping, you need	    of the kei by making a lujvo "nunzdi", resulting in	the
"ke".  Using schematics	to make	things easier, assume that  simple left-grouping "vitke	nunzdi kumfa", which is	much
the letters in the following stand for brivla in a tanru.   easier to read and understand.  Only rarely	should you
  Normally, a tanru "a b c d" will group as "((a b) c) d"   leave "nu" and "kei" surrounding a single brivla - its not
for modification purposes - this means that 'a modifies	b'  fair to the	listener/reader.
and you	determine the meaning of the two-place tanru "a	b".   Note that	all these elidables and	combinables might be
You then use the tanru as a modifier to	c, forming a new    explicitly expressed in longer form	to obtain a certain
tanru.	Finally	the meaning of this 3-place tanru serves as rhyme or meter in poetry - "nu zdile kei" would be
a modifier to d.					    different in both rhyme and	meter effects from "nunzdi".

							   36


This is	probably the only case where long forms	are			       On po'e,	po, pe,	po'u
justifiable.
							      These four words are used	to attach sumti	to another
							    sumti in such a way	as to provide additional information,
	       On ti, ta, tu vs. vi, va, vu		    aiding the listener/reader to know exactly what that first
							    sumti is referring to.  They are members of	lexeme "goi",
  One of the more pervasive problems is	the exchange of	    and	the right sumti	is followed by a normally elidable
these words with each other.  The "ti" series is a sumti,   "ge'u".  If	found in a complex construction, these bind
the "vi" series	is part	of the tense construction and is    with the closest sumti.  Thus "le mapku .e le grana	po mi"
used to	inflect	a selbri or as a sumti tag.  Do	not use	    is "the cap, and the rod-of-mine"; the "po"	has nothing to
"vi" as	a sumti	- it is	not grammatical: "*mi klama vi"	    do with "le	mapku".
does not mean "I am-coming-here."; however "mi klama ti"      The last two have	non-restrictive	counterparts, ne and
does work for this, presuming that you in some way indicate no'u, when you want	to relate the second sumti to the first
where 'here' is	- an accurate translation that clarifies    as incidental information not needed for identification of
this would be "I am-coming to this-here."		    the	first sumti.
  The opposite situation is where more errors occur.  "ti"    These four words are the Lojban expressions of
can confuse if you assume it is	always a translation for    possession.	 Yes, I	know I just said that "le mi cukta" is
"this".	 "le ti	cukta" is not "this book" - you	are leaving a possessive.  But "le mi cukta" is	IDENTICAL in meaning to
out the	"le" from the translation, which should	be "the	    "le	cukta po mi" - with no qualifications.	One translates
this book".  You might use this	if there are books in two   as "the me book", the other	as "the	book of	mine".
boxes (and hence not visible to	be pointed at).	 You could    Let us first dispense with "po'u", which is the 'identity
then point to one box and say "ko cpacu	le ti cukta" - get  possessive'.  (This	is changed from	the published lessons
this thing's book.  The	"ti" in	such a position	is like	a   which used "pe".  Change all "pe" to "po'u"	and all	"po'u"
possessive; compare with "le mi	cukta" ("my book" or, more  to "pe" in your lessons.  Then change all "ne" to "no'u"
accurately, "the me book").				    and	all "mo'u" to "ne".  These will	be found in Lessons 5
  To express "this book", you wish to mark the book, a	    and	6 only.)  "po'u" indicates another identity for	the
brivla,	with a location.  So you use "le vi cukta" - "the   sumti it is	attached to, hopefully giving more information
here-book" or "le va cukta" - "the there-book".		    to listener	to help	in identifying the sumti.  Thus, if two
  We'll	address	one other issue	with "this", in	a moment.   people (Jill and John) in a	room are both doctors, you
							    could say "le mikce	po'u la	djil." to indicate "The	doctor
							    who-is the one named Jill."	 "po'u"	almost always
							    translates as "who-is" or "which is".  It may also be
							    viewed as a	contraction of "poi du", although the latter
							    would have a different elidable terminator on the right
							    side of the	right sumti, if	one is required.
							      The other	three are more like our	familiar possessives.
							    Unlike English, incidentally, none of the Lojban
							    possessives	inherent implies legal ownership.  "le cukta po
							    mi"	or "le mi cukta" says only that	there is some
							    unspecified	relationship between 'me' and 'the book'.  The
							    germane brivla for "po" is "steci" - "is-specific-to", not
							    "ponse" "possesses".
							      "po'e" and "po'u"	are best described in relation to the
							    non-specific "po".	"po'e" specifies a close relationship,
							    one	that is	permanent or inalienable.  Your	mind is
							    inalienably	yours.	Your experiences are also inalienably
							    yours.  So you can say "le menli po'e mi" instead of the
							    weaker "le menli po	mi" or "le mi menli".  Quite often, if
							    "po'e" is called for in usage, you will find that there is
							    a place in the brivla reserved for the relationship.  You
							    can	say "le	birka po'e mi" - "The arm of me.", but it is
							    preferred that you use the place structure provided	for
							    "birka":  "le birka	be mi".	 "po'e"	exists because you may
							    not	know the place structure (Oops!), or the left side
							    sumti may not HAVE a place structure.  Thus, if two	mothers
							    (Jane and Jill) have sons named John, you can say "la djan.
							    po'e la djein." to indicate	one of them.
							      "pe" is, on the other hand, a looser relationship.  The
							    germane brivla is "srana" -	"pertains to".	"pe" is	used to
							    attach incidental identifying information.	When visiting

							   37


someone	else and sitting in a chair there, someone might    avoid sucking any following	sumti into the abstraction bri-
refer to "le stizu pe do", "the	chair that pertains to	    di.
you".  In a classroom with assigned seating, the teacher      But if you want to say "This is true." about the previous
might use "po" instead:	"le stizu po do", "the chair that   sentence, you do not say "la'edi'u jetnu".	You've fallen
is specific to you".					    into the trap of reference vs. reality.  "la'edi'u"	refers
  "pe",	and its	non-restrictive	counterpart "ne", are also  to the referent of the previous sentence, not to the
used to	attach any number of relative phrases providing	    sentence itself, which is "di'u" ("la'e", unsurprisingly,
identifying information	marked with sumti tags,	or even	a   means "the referent	of ..."	attaching to a following sumti;
bare 'tense/location'.	"le vi cukta" is equivalent to "le  it may be used like	a computer language pointer, indicating
cukta pe vi".  In general, if there is a sumti tag, you	    the	attached sumti points to or describes the thing	you
should use "pe"	or "ne".  Thus the examples used in the	    actually want to refer to.)
discussion of Greg Higley's question above.  (There could
be exceptions -	the colloquial English "the man	of the	      Hopefully, these discussions clarify some	problems you
hour" might be rendered	as "le prenu po'e ca" instead of    may	have had.  I'll	find out when you send some Lojban text
"le prenu pe ca", indicating that the speaker expects that  that uses them.
the person will	inalienably always be associated with that
time in	the listener's mind.
  All of these words are symmetrical, which is why we say			  On Sapir-Whorf
that Lojban has	no true	possessive in the same sense as				 Report	on LogFest
English.  In Lojban, you can say "le birka po'e	mi" or "mi
po'e le	birka" - "I that am inalienably	associated with	the   Of the four who agreed to	write reports on the extensive
arm.", or colloquially "the arm's me"; the reason for doing discussion of Sapir-Whorf last June	at LogFest, only pc
so would be if the listener would find it easier to	    actually submitted one.  For those not present, the
identify you knowing that you were associated with 'the	    discussion resulted	from Ralph Dumain's comments back in
arm', presumably an arm	that the listener already had	    JL6, and a further selection that he submitted for
identified.  "po" and "pe" work	similarly, and "po'u"	    publication	a few months later.  The latter	included a
obviously so.  The assumption with the 'pV(V)' cmavo in	    bibliography; this list seemed to be slanted towards a
this set is that the listener doesn't know which of several particular viewpoint, and omitted basic works like John
possible interpretation	of the left sumti the speaker is    Carroll's collection of Whorf's papers, and	any reference
referring to, and the sumti attached will provide useful    to Sapir (I've yet to have someone tell me where Sapir said
identifying information.  For the 'nV(V)' words, the	    things about SWH).
reverse	is true.  The listener knows the referent of the      Seeing a need for	balance, and recalling Ralph's strong
left sumti, and	the speaker is supplying a hitherto	    criticisms of Loglan/Lojban's scientific approach to SWH, I
unstated associational information about that sumti, that   proposed a group discussion	at LogFest.  Ideally, we would
is incidental to the main point	of the statement.	    have discussed JCB's statements on the subject from	the new
							    L1,	but that book was not published	before LogFest.
							      Unfortunately I didn't get to participate	in much	of the
	   On go'i vs. ti vs. di'u vs. la'edi'u		    discussion,	so I asked the major participants to write up
							    what happened.  What follows is pc's perceptions of	the
  As stated above, "this" is not always	translated as "ti". session.  Note that	this report was	written	before pc had
The latter is used only	when you can point to the referent  seen Loglan	1.  He has given me only one comment in	writing
or otherwise indicate it - this	is why "ti" is called a	    on the latter, which is also found below.
demonstrative.						      Athelstan, during	the session, attempted to formulate an
  On the other hand, you will almost always translate the   expression of Sapir-Whorf that reflected the consensus;
English	"I'm doing this, too." as "mi go'i".  "go'i"	    this is also included here,	although Athelstan didn't
repeats	the MAIN selbri	of the previous	sentence (not the   report on the group	reaction to his	formulation.  So you
last selbri, which might be in a relative clause or NU	    get	to react!
abstraction), carrying over all	sumti, except those that
may be replaced	in the new sentence by new values, and
carrying over the tense/location, unless replaced.				    pc Reports
  But be careful!  "go'i" has the grammar of a brivla.	You
cannot say "*go'i fasnu" for "This happened".  The Lojban,    As for SWH, my memories of that session run something
which is grammatical, is an odd	tanru, whose meaning is	    like this:
dependent on just what "go'i" refers to.  To refer to the
event of the previous sentence,	you use	"la'edi'u", which     The SWH session was devoted to two and a half questions:
literally means	"the referent of the previous sentence":    what is the	hypothesis, or,	better,	what does Jim Brown
"la'edi'u fasnu" correctly translates "This happened".	    take it to be, and could it	be true.  There	was also some
(You can also use "lenu	go'i", which has similar meaning to discussion of how the hypothesis might be tested, obviously
"la'edi'u", but	is likely to require a closing "kei" to	    tied to the	first question.

							   38


  Those	who have read Whorf or even Brown admitted that	    be evidence	that the hypothesis is correct.	 (Most process
what they said was pretty unclear but the general	    metaphysics	is also	done in	Indo-European languages, which
characterization of the	hypothesis to be something between  can	be taken - it is said -	as being ultimately verb-based
a very weak view and a very strong one.	 The weakest view   and	so "really" pointing to	a process conceptualization.)
was that having	a lexical item for a thing or property	    A large part of the	notion that this hypothesis is un-
permitted a speaker to spot that property or thing more	    testable, was, then, derived from the fact that it was
readily	than a speaker without that item in his	vocabulary. unclear how	to tell	either what the	grammatical categories
The strongest reading was that having a	certain	grammatical of a language really were and what the conceptualiza-
category in a language compelled the speakers of that	    tion/perception its	speakers really	had - as opposed to the
language to conceptualize their	world in terms of the onto- way	they expressed it in the language.  The	latter seemed
logical	correlates of that grammatical category.  The	    especially an impossible task, since conceptualization is
strengthening/weakening	of the hypothesis seems	to be done  not	usually	accessible except through language (or so it
by replacement first of	all between "enables a speaker to   seemed) and	thus the test became circular.
do better" and "compels	a speaker to do" and then by	      By and large, the	Brown test (as we understood it) - to
referring to items at different	levels of abstraction as    look for changes in	behavior/conceptualization/personality
governing:  lexical item, conceptual class, construction,   (in	a broad	sense) when a new language is learned, to
..., grammatical category.  Whorf wrote	about both extremes correlate with features of the new language	- looked like
and seems to have placed most emphasis on the strongest	    as reasonable a test as was	possible.  The problem was, of
form - or the one just weaker -	that the existence of a	    course, what features of the new language were to be
category made it easier	for a speaker to conceptualize that relevant and what are the appropriate correlates of	these
way, or	perhaps	harder not to.				    features?  Brown's design of Loglan	gives some clues to his
  Brown's position is less clear since not (at that time -  ideas of appropriate features, as noted above, but what
there is said to be more in the	new edition of L1) spelled  traits he would correlate with each	was still unclear.  Nor
out at any length (mirabile dictu!).  What he does say	    did	anyone have any	useful suggestions beyond those	made in
seems towards the stronger end in involving grammatical	    Ju'i Lobypli at other times.
categories (the	importance of having only the category	      I	should note in passing that, like earlier more formal
predicate in content words) but	weaker in only postulating  discussion of SWH in academic circles, our discussion
an enabling rather than	a compelling character - but	    generated much more	heat than light, with some of even our
presumably enabling a speaker of the new language to do	new mildest members becoming rather abusive to some of their
things by breaking the compulsions (or at least	tendencies) opponents.	I think	we did manage to end amicably, however.
of the old.  This was more inferred from the features that
Brown stressed in his design of	Loglan then form what he
said directly about SWH, although he does also stress that     Athelstan's Formulation of the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis
his vocabulary is culturally neutral, looking also toward
the weaker end of the spectrum of possible hypotheses.	      Whorf says that the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis (SWH) occurs
Another	feature	of Brown's view	(which was not stressed	in  through the	grammar, not the lexicon.  Grammar is a	pattern
the discussion)	is the role of metaphor, suggesting that    of increasingly complex relationships between words, and
one part of the	hypothesis he is interested in is that the  then groups	of relationships between words,	thus building a
easier it is to	bring two words	into grammatical rela-	    continuum of complexity from lexicon to grammar.
tionship, the easier it	is to see connections between the     If Whorf's grammatical view is some-what correct,	it may
two things they	represent.				    still be a semantic	effect.	 In analyzing apparent SWH
  On the subject of truth [of SWH], the	weakest	hypothesis  effects towards the	grammatical end	of the spectrum,
was generally held to be uninteresting because a truism,    semantics affects thought more subtly and less avoidably.
although some experiments said to aim at testing it were      Compare Marvin Minsky's view of intelligence as a
reported to have had results taken as non-confirming	    progressively built	complex	of interactions	between
(monolingual English- and Russian-speaking children sorted  reactions, agents, and groups of them.
objects	by color in about the same way or did not differ in
ways that matched nicely with differing	color vocabularies, Bob's note:	 Athelstan has expanded	upon this formulation
for example.)  But there were some questions about just	    into a more	quantitative view of SWH than I	have heard
what those tests tested	and so some talk occurred about	how before.  He	has written this up in technical Lojban, and
better tests might be devised ("better"	- it turned out,    the	result will be in JL11.
meaning	ones that confirmed the	truism.)  The strongest
thesis was obviously more interesting but generally thought
either clearly false or	untestable.  On	the false side was  Discussion on Jim Brown's Sapir-Whorf Test in Loglan 1 4th
the fact that, for example, nearly every discussion of				      Edition
process	metaphysics has	been in	a heavily noun-adjective-
verb language, which ought to force a static metaphysics.     We'd like	more opinions on what the Sapir-Whorf
Of course, most	of these discussions [of metaphysics] have  Hypothesis (SWH) is	and how	to test	it.  After the heated
also said that the reality they	were pointing to was ulti-  debate at LogFest, we were surprised that Jim Brown	does
mately ineffable and beyond conceptualization, which might  not	even refer to 'strong' or 'weak' versions of the SWH in

							   39


Loglan 1.  It seems that Jim's views are orthogonal to that civilization" due to Chinese grammar and the "virtually
classification scheme -	which may be the most significant   limitless interplay	of verbal categories" found in Chinese.
theoretical advance in Jim's formulation - he has changed     Dr. Brown	then goes on to	claim that Loglan can be used
the terms of the debate	on SWH,	perhaps	in a direction less to test either of these formulations, and outlines a fairly
subject	to philosophical and political posturing that pc    detailed approach to such a	test.  Along the way, he points
reports	has haunted SWH	throughout its history.		    out	that the nature	of modern science is such that
  Jim also discusses how he thinks SWH may be tested in	L1. experiments	must be	designed to disprove a theory or model
pc, Athelstan, and I have found	the test he proposes to	be  assuming that it is	true, rather than to try to prove the
scientifically invalid,	but perhaps the	seed of	a more	    model, and that scientific advance comes when such experi-
valid test.						    ments lead to refinements of the model that	allow it to
  The following, from our longer review	of L1, which the    more accurately describe reality.
LK10 review was	condensed from,	discusses what Jim Brown      Dr. Brown	also indicates that the	'Whorfian effects'
proposes for the SWH and the Loglan test, and why we	    perceived by current loglanists are	not scientifically
believe	it to be inadequate.  The text is not polished to   useful, although he	then goes on to	use those effects as a
the extent we would have liked,	nor is it written in the    means of identifying true 'Whorfian	effects' in a test
apolitical, academically disinterested style we	eventually  population.	 This is but the first sign of several that Dr.
adopted	for the	review;	Athelstan and I	have ruled out	    Brown's remarkably cogent presentation of the hypothesis
spending a lot more time on L1 for a while.  But the ideas  and	the problems in	testing	it did not open	his mind to
therein	should stimulate thought among those of	you	    countless problems that he did not see.  The result	is that
interested in using Lojban to test SWH;	they also should    his	detailed experimental scheme is	fatally	flawed.
raise questions	about the nature of experimental linguistic   A	few brief examples are needed; this section is the
research in general - important	if Lojban indeed is to be   major new section of the book and covers an	important part
the cradle of experimental linguistics.			    of the scientific justification for	the language.
							      First, Dr. Brown suggests	that a useful test of Sapir-
							    Whorf can be conducted with	second language	learners,
	 from Bob & Athelstan's	Unabridged Review	    specifically American university students (not the most
							    homogeneous	of intellects or cultures) who study Loglan,
  The main discussion of the scientific	rationale for the   French, and	Chinese	in a "Summer Workshop" 'total
language takes place in	the introduction and in	the new	    immersion' environment.  He	then contradicts himself by de-
Chapter	7 on "Testing the Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis".  The	    ciding that	this workshop should last 8 months for Chinese,
introductory section is	lucid and presents the purpose of   4 months for French, and two months	for Loglan (he does not
the language quite well.  In Chapter 7,	he then	goes on	to  propose any	standard for setting these times, like a pre-
explore	a variety of formulations of the Sapir-Whorf	    experiment to determine how	long it	takes to reach a
hypothesis as he perceives it, and discusses the	    measurable level of	proficiency using the proposed teaching
implications of	these formulations for testing.		    methods; nor does he recognize that	time taken to learn a
  In so	doing he nicely	avoids the controversial aspects of language may be unrelated to time needed to	evoke 'Whorfian
Sapir-Whorf, including the politically and philosophically  effects' - the difficulty of Chinese is due	more to	its
issue of 'linguistic relativity' that Ralph Dumain	    writing system and tones, while the	grammar	is relatively
discussed in JL7, as well as the various attempts to divide easy to learn - so 'Whorfian effects' based	on grammatical
the hypothesis into a strong and untenable form	(that due   structure may show up relatively sooner).
to different language structures, people can never truly      Also, the	summers	may be awesomely long in Gainesville (8
understand the culture of another language community) and a months?), but even so, few university students are going to
weak and trite form (different languages give different	    be able or willing to take 8 solid months of their
perspectives, so learning a new	one broadens your mind).    educational	program	to study a single subject, even	for
  The formulations he chooses as best exemplifying Sapir-   pay, unless	that subject was their primary interest	- and
Whorf are that "a pattern of relationships exists between   he has specifically	excluded choosing students on the basis
the cultures of	certain	peoples	and the	structures fo the   of their interest in the language.	(Money doesn't motivate
individual languages with which	those cultures were associ- everybody, Jim!)  Dr. Brown	never really addresses the
ated", that "structural	features of languages are seen by   question of	holding	a disinterested	subject's interest in
Whorf as limiting the domain of	the possible for minds	    learning a language	(probably the toughest problem in
shaped by them"	and (actually from American philosopher	F.  foreign language education), except	to hold	out to the non-
S. C. Northrup)	"a facilitory one ... notational advances   Loglan students the	offer to teach them Loglan for free in
... that replace other notations are facilitory", or in	    a workshop the following summer.  Wow.
other words, that a language with a more efficient or	      Somewhat surprisingly, he	chooses	to measure 'creativity'
effective way of expressing certain kinds of ideas will	    as the area	for detecting short-term Sapir-Whorf effects,
cause its associated culture to	be richer in the realms	of  and	not the	logical	thinking that is the original basis for
those ideas.  Dr. Brown	cites the "enabling" effects of	new the	language.  This	is actually a good choice; it is too
mathematical notations,	and the	relative poetic	richness    likely that	any attempts to	measure	development of logical
and "deeply esthetic orientation of the	Chinese		    thought over a short period	will be	colored	by the teaching
							    methodology	used and the fact of actually teaching of

							   40


logic, since most people are ignorant of logic,	especially  He indicates some of the difficulties of monitoring	such
as it applies to their linguistic expression.  He suggests  long-term studies, but forgets the obvious one.  Why would
that linguistic	creativity be the basis	for measurement,    the	students, by design not	especially interested in Loglan
citing the 'Whorfian effects' mentioned	earlier.  Unfortu-  to begin with, be expected to continue to grow in fluency
nately,	he never addresses the issue on	a basis	of cultural and	usage?	Where is the 'cultural environment' wherein
development.  The tests	he proposes measure individual	    they would interact	to grow	in this	manner?	 If their
creativity, and	not cultural creativity.  A far	better test lifestyle and interactions with others do not demand use of
might be the comparative group solving of problems	    loglandic features that would generate 'Whorfian effects'
requiring significant creativity and linguistic	interaction to be tested, such as logical competence, it is unlikely
in the target language,	and measuring either speed or	    that any such effects will be noticed.
quality	of results.						 As an comparative example, how	many English speakers
  This example shows how Dr. Brown's elucidation, while	in  can	identify the implications of a restrictive vs. a non-
itself severely	flawed,	is useful in pointing to a better   restrictive	relative clause	even a week after the grammar
approach; the above alternative	test was composed 'at the   test, even though that is a	structure basic	to English
computer' as this is written, merely on	rereading the rele- grammar (as	well as	Loglan's).  (One of our	respondents
vant section.						    indicates that most	college	graduates don't	even clearly
  Another problem is Dr. Brown's failure to take into	    remember the difference between nouns, verbs, and
account	the bias imposed by the	teachers of these	    adjectives,	five years after college.  This	may indicate
workshops.  Recalling the difficulty in	motivating	    why	many Americans can't write cogently, and why these
disinterested students in learning a language, one cannot   parts of speech are	blending together; e.g., using 'impact'
imagine	trying to teach	them Loglan without engaging in	the as a verb.	Dr. Brown suggests, while discussing metaphor
type of	word-play and linguistic experimentation that the   relations, that English and	European languages may be
experiment is supposed to measure.  This would be	    evolving towards this loglandic ideal.)
especially heightened if the teachers are today's
loglanists, as Dr. Brown proposes; we all recall what
inspired our passionate	interest in Loglan and would be	un-
able to	teach it to others without passing along that which
we found inspiring.  It	is unlikely that Chinese and French
teachers could be found	that could emphasize the same mix
of skills and interests	as the Loglan teachers of this
generation, and	Dr. Brown, while addressing several other
biases,	does not appear	to recognize this one in his at-
tempt to convince people of the	relative immediacy of a
possible Sapir-Whorf test.
  Perhaps the strongest	evidence of Dr.	Brown's	inadequate
analysis of the	problem	is his method of eliminating what
he calls "host culture effects".  He chooses the three
languages to be	taught on the basis that French	is a lot
like English, while Chinese is different, in ways he
presumes are like Lojban's  (He	never says why Lojban is
more extreme than Chinese in ways that would increase
linguistic creativity).	 He predicts that this comparison
would cancel effects not due to	the languages themselves,
with succeedingly higher 'Whorfian effects' in comparing
French to Chinese to Loglan students.  (He doesn't explain
why this test couldn't be done with three natural languages
first, if only to prove	the methodology.)
  To eliminate host country effects, he	then suggests that
French students	be given the same program, with	the
expected results to be increasing from English to Chinese
to Lojban.  He also proposes a similar test for	Chinese
students, but never indicates the results that would be	ex-
pected (which are indeterminate	with regard to his method-
ology, since English and French	are supposedly equidistant
from Chinese, while Loglan is an unknown difference from
Chinese	- presumably less, but skewed in a direction that
would increase 'Whorfian effects' as much the 'short
distance' would	minimize them).
  For long-term	effects, Dr. Brown proposes a five-year
period of relatively low levels	of monitoring and control.

							     41


     Interestingly, Dr.	Brown doesn't mention any testing implications related to the 'metaphysical parsimony' that is a
basic design principle of the language.	 What 'Whorfian	effects' might be expected by the optional tense approach?  Dr.
Brown doesn't discuss this, nor	does he	suggest	a comparison with the Hopi language and	culture	that led Whorf to his
hypothesis.
     These reviewers believe that Dr. Brown has	made no	case that suggests that	Sapir-Whorf testing is plausible without
at least second-generation bi-lingual speakers who can interact	in a significantly loglandic environment.  In fact, the
problems he foresees suggest that it is	harder than originally perceived to isolate variables that would invalidate test
results.  However, by at least discussing the topic, after years of silence, Dr. Brown has made	it possible for	others
to build on his	work, perhaps solving the problems that	seem to	make a Sapir-Whorf test	impractical in the near	future.
     Our conclusion is that Dr.	Brown has made a start towards a Sapir-Whorf test strategy, but	that his approach is
academically weak.  He embarrasses his 'advisors', including scholars noteworthy in the	fields of linguistics, anthro-
pology,	and language education,	by suggesting their presumed approval of this approach.	 It is little wonder that the
NSF proposals in the mid-70s did not impress the linguistics experts that reviewed them, who were possibly more
committed to a thorough	peer review of the program than	was Dr.	Brown's	team.


					     from pc (John Parks-Clifford)

     I was surprised that Jim's	discussion made	no mention of the two big projects on the Whorf	Hypothesis (WH)	(and
related	stuff) held in the early 50's.	Surely these conferences must have influenced him to think about the issue, if
only indirectly.  Moreover, they were the biggest (and so far as I can find, the only) major projects -	government and
foundation grants, great lists of top-ranking second-raters as participants - ever conducted on	WH.  All the fields
involved went off in other directions shortly after the	proceedings were published in 1954 and 1958.  The most sharply
focussed (on WH) was held at U/Chicago in March	1953 with a Ford grant.	 The papers and	the discussions	around them were
edited by Harry	Hoijer (from whom I first got doses of WH) and published by U/Chicago Press in 1954 as Language	and
Culture.  The other, at	U/Michigan using grants	from Rockefeller and Ford, ran through the academic year 1951-2.  It's
results, which start at	WH but go far afield (a	lot of philosophers involved in	this one) were summarized by Paul Hanle
in Language, Thought, and Culture published in 1958 by U/Michigan Press, reprinted in paperback	in 1965.  I haven't
looked at either in 20 years, so I don't remember much about conclusions (except that they were	generally negative, I
seem to	recall)	or any details.	 Still,	they seem like a good place to get through in any discussion of	WH.


					      ko lifri le gleki	ni'ornanca