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This page is about a person la tsali. For other uses, see Tsali (disambiguation).
Arnt Johansen
Native name la tsali
Born Arnt Richard Johansen
Other names Broca
Occupation former president of The Logical Language Group, a member of The Logical Language Group and baupla fuzykamni.
[email protected]


  • John Cowan:
    • I don't know why he calls himself "tsali"
      • la tsali:
        • OK, here is the story of how I chose my name. Basically, it is because I found my name too hard to Lojbanize. The native pronunciation of my name (in SAMPA) is ['A:n`t` 'r\ikAd` ju'hAnsn,_]. Both the lojbanization according to pronunciation (.ant. rikad. .iu'ansn) and the lojbanization according to orthography (.arnt. rikard. .iuxansn) are unacceptable to me. Therefore I decided to translate my name, and turned to a naming dictionary to find out what my name originally meant. Apparently, "Arnt" means "eagle", and "Richard" means powerful. To my dismay, there is no shorter word for "eagle" in Lojban than cpirAKuila. So I decided to stick with my second first name, and named myself tsali.
          • Jay:
            • isn't vlipa closer to "powerful" than tsali?
              • la tsali:
                • Possibly. In fact, now that you mention it, I'm not entirely sure the dictionary said "powerful" or "strong". I always thought of vlipa as something like "good at something", mi vlipa tu'a la lojban .i ku'i mi na'e vlipa le nu cpare. But in any case, it's too late to do anything about it now.

My opinion on cultural gismu/lujvo vs. cultural fu'ivla

  • la tsali:
    • I disagree with the notion that the creation of cultural gismu gives certain cultures (those with their own gismu) an advantage over others (without cultural gismu) in Lojban usage. This hinges on the assumption that gismu space is special, and that selbri that were created as gismu are somewhat more important than other words. I don't think this was ever the intention of the gismu list. If the word form of cultural gismu does matter, it must be because of Zipfean shortness. But I don't see the fact that some cultural words are longer than others as a threat to Lojban's cultural neutrality. If they were, surely there would have to be other much worse abominations in the gismu list, as it, too, was created without any form of semantic theory. Those are probably much more difficult to find, as they are hidden to us because of Sapir-Whorfean assumptions, but nevertheless, cultural gismu get attacked because they are easy to spot. I dislike people creating fu'ivla such as steito, or even wresting glicybau out of lujvo-space with such non-words as gli'icybau, in a misguided attempt to put all cultures on an equal footing. In short, I don't consider this matter important enough to warrant neither a baseline change or making communication in Lojban more difficult and prone to misunderstandings.
      • Jay:
        • Who is removing glicybau from lujvo space? Not I. And I'm the one who made gli'icybau, which you're so worked up about. I just want cultural fu'ivla to be valid, I'm not trying to say that cultural gismu ought not be valid. (As that would compromise the baseline!)
        • Also, what is the cultural brivla for Norwegian? How are you going to make lujvo with it? (Now now, you can't say "norgo", as that is a non-word.) In the end, we're going to be using cultural fu'ivla/rafsi for most of the world's cultures. I just want things symmetric.
          • la tsali:
            • I believe the cultural brivla for Norwegian to be bangrnorge, kulnrnorge or prenrnorge. In the rare event that it is needed in a fu'ivla, zei is more than sufficient.


This member presides over: Checkpointed

Done, ready to vote (according to arj)

Work in progress