BPFK Section: Discursives

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Contents

Prior Usage and Discussion

da'i as an intensional marker

It has been suggested (boske thread) that da'i be used as a marker of intensionality (as opposed to the default Lojban way of extensional reference). The new construal of lo as entailing intensionality makes this position irrelevant today.

da'i as a counterfactual marker

The CLL refers to da'i and da'i nai as words that can disambiguate between a factual and a counterfactual reading of a sentence. Hence, it is implied that a sentence that is intended as counterfactual, need not be marked. The only example of da'i in CLL is one that puts da'i in the antecedent of an implication.

ganai da'i do viska le mi citno mensi gi ju'o do djuno le du'u ri pazvau

If you were to see my younger sister, you would certainly know she is pregnant.

The semantics of this are more or less transparent: da'i points out a potential counterfactuality of the clause beginning with "ga nai".

da'i is generally conceived of as a rough equivalent to the subjunctive in natural languages. John Parks-Clifford Conditionals ecognises da'i as a de facto antecedent marker in subjunctive clauses.

John Cowan has criticised this viewpoint, referring to it as "mere attitudinal wafflings". (ef)

The scope of da'i

It is generally agreed that da'i can affect the factuality of sub-clauses. (ef) In other words, no evidence can be found of proponents of the view that insertion of da'i somewhere in the non-first position of the bridi renders the entire bridi non-factual.

da'i is a UI, which means that it follows the same interpretive convention as other UI: it affects the entire sentence if it is the first word; otherwise, it affects the word immediately to the left, and if that word is the head of a clause, the entire clause is affected.

Usage

da'i as a marker of a hypothetical antecedent

ru'a ganai da'i do ba citka lo smani gi ri na jmive

Presumably, if you were to eat a monkey, it would not be alive.

da'i as a marker of a hypothetical consequent (erroneous)

i da'i le ve xrani cu ba dukse

If that were to happen, the damage would be too great.

.i bai le nu mi fanva kei mi cu da'i cusku zo pagbu .enai zo porpi .i ku'i mi pilno le se cusku be do

Compelled by me translating, I would say "pagbu" instead of "porpi". But I use what you said. (The discussion was about the translation of the IRC nick "fracture".)

<xod> da'i trina lo nalglico selbangu

<xorxes> i a'o go'i

Xod: Suppose we'd attract speakers of non-English languages.

Jorge: I hope so.

(A discussion about the lojban-es mailing list.)

i zo su'i binxo da'i zo sumji

The word "su'i" would become "sumji".

da'i used outside of implications

lonu da'i la betis. klama le te salci cu vajni lenu la bil. gleki

Betty's coming to the celebration was important for Bill being happy.

mi na jimpe le krinu be le si'o ko'a goi le da'i cecmu pe la and. joi la xorxes cu nitcu le'i catni selcmi

I don't understand why And and Jorge's supposed community needs the official membership organisations.

to da'i da na djica le nu le zgike kagni cu ricfu vau po'o toi

No-one would want music companies to be rich, and nothing else.

Issues

here and here.

Proposed Definitions And Examples

Proposed Definition of ba'u

ba'u (UI3)
Discursive. Used to express that something is an exaggeration. This word comprises a scale, along with "ba'u cu'i" and "ba'u nai". See also ba'u cu'i, ba'u nai, the preface. (cf. satci, dukse)
    • Keywords: exaggeration (discursive). hyperbole (discursive). overstatement (discursive). I exaggerate.

Examples of ba'u Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

ba'u le festi derxi cu simsa la tcomolunmas. lo ni barda

The pile of garbage is as big as Mount Everest.

Proposed Definition of ba'u cu'i

ba'u cu'i (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express that something is accurately expressed (ie. neither an exaggeration nor overstatement). This word comprises a scale, along with "ba'u" and "ba'u nai". See also ba'u, ba'u nai, the preface.
    • Keywords: accuracy (discursive). to be precise.

Examples of ba'u cu'i Usage

.i ba'ucu'i mi bai cliva

To be precise, I go, because I am forced to.

Proposed Definition of ba'u nai

ba'u nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express that something is an understatement. This word comprises a scale, along with "ba'u" and "ba'u cu'i". See also ba'u, ba'u cu'i, the preface.
    • Keywords: understatement (discursive). to put it mildly.

Examples of ba'u nai Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

ba'u nai le lunra cu na cmalu

To put it mildly, the Moon is not small.

Proposed Definition of bi'u

bi'u (UI3)
Discursive. Used to flag constructs as introducing new information. This word comprises a scale, along with "bi'u nai". See also bi'u nai, the preface.
    • Keywords: new information (discursive).

Examples of bi'u Usage

.i bi'u mi terpa lo nu klama fu lo vinji

Now, it so happens that I'm afraid of flying.

Proposed Definition of bi'u nai

bi'u nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to flag constructs as expressing old or already known information. This word comprises a scale, along with "bi'u". See also bi'u, the preface.
    • Keywords: old information (discursive). aforementioned. aforesaid. said.

Examples of bi'u nai Usage

.i bi'unai mi terpa

As earlier mentioned, I was afraid.

Proposed Definition of da'i

da'i (UI3)
Discursive. Used to mark the discourse as possibly taking a non-real-world viewpoint. This word comprises a scale, along with "da'i nai". See also da'i nai, the preface. (cf. sruma)
    • Keywords: supposing. by hypothesis. by conjecture. hypothesizing. conjecturing.

Examples of da'i Usage

le tadji be la xorxes cu da'i ba rinka le nu ro pu me zo lo cu jursa ke smuni binxo

Jorge's method would cause all previous occurrences of "lo" to severely change meaning.

le nu da'i da tirna mi cu mukti le nu mi skicu le jibri menli bo tolcertu

If someone would listen to me, I'd tell about the idiots at work.

no'i ji'a lo nu da'i do cusku lu ke broda brode ke'e cei ke brodi brodo li'u cu rinka lo nu do palci vau zo'o

Returning to the previous topic; you would also be evil if you were to say "ke broda brode ke'e cei ke brodi brodo".

Proposed Definition of da'i nai

da'i nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to mark the discourse as taking a real-world viewpoint. This word comprises a scale, along with "da'i nai". See also da'i, the preface.
    • Keywords: actually. really. in actuality.

Examples of da'i nai Usage

da'inai mi milxe bilma

I am actually a bit sick.

le si'o sidju cu cinri mi .i ku'i da'inai du'eda cuntu mi

The concept of helping appeals to me. But in actuality, I already have too much on my plate.

Proposed Definition of do'a

do'a (UI3)
Discursive. Used to express that something is broadly construed. This word comprises a scale, along with "do'a nai". See also do'a nai, the preface. (cf. dunda)
    • Keywords: generously (discursive). broadly construed.

Examples of do'a Usage

.i .y. do'a milxe plika'e

Broadly construed, it's, uh, slightly useful.

Proposed Definition of do'a nai

do'a nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express that something is narrowly construed. This word comprises a scale, along with "do'a". See also do'a, the preface.
    • Keywords: parsimoniously (discursive). narrowly construed. at least.

Examples of do'a nai Usage

i ku'i so'e skami pilno cu milxe do'anai ke glico se bangu

But most computer users know a little English.

Proposed Definition of je'u

je'u (UI3)
Discursive. Used to express that something is true/a matter of fact, or that a statement is tautological. This word comprises a scale, along with "je'u nai". See also je'u nai, the preface. (cf. jetnu)
    • Keywords: truth (discursive). in fact. as a matter of fact. actually. really. in reality.

Examples of je'u Usage

je'u ckakla

I'm going to bed for real.

.ue doi .bancus. mi pu krici lo du'u do se bloti lo je'u te falnu

Aha, Bancus, I thought that the boat for carrying you were in fact sail-powered.

Proposed Definition of je'u nai

je'u nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express falsity or that something is meant to be ironic. This word comprises a scale, along with "je'u". See also je'u, the preface.
    • Keywords: falsity (discursive). contradictorily (discursive). so-called.

Examples of je'u nai Usage

le je'unai palci cu xanri le menli poi na jimpe le manku sevzi

This so-called "evil" is something that is thought up by minds who do not understand the dark self.

Proposed Definition of ke'u

ke'u (UI3)
Discursive. Used to express that something is a repetition or rephrasing of something expressed earlier, in other words, that the content is the same as that of something previously expressed. This word comprises a scale, along with "ke'u nai". See also ke'u nai, the preface. (cf. refbasna, krefu, rapli, velde'a)
    • Keywords: repeating (discursive). again (discursive).

Examples of ke'u Usage

coi ke'u

Again, hello.

.ienai ke'u

I told you, I disagree.

Proposed Definition of ke'u nai

ke'u nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express that something is different from something expressed earlier. This word comprises a scale, along with "ke'u". See also ke'u, the preface.
    • Keywords: continuing (discursive). furthermore.

Examples of ke'u nai Usage

.i ke'u nai tezu'e lo nu jinga fi la ganyn kei la link cikre le bi fatri spisa be le cibmakfa pe lo ka prije tezu'e lo nu ponse le makfa cibjgatai

Furthermore, in order to defeat Ganon, Link mends the eight scattered fragments of the triforce of wisdom, in order to hgave the magic triangle.

Proposed Definition of la'a

la'a (UI3)
Discursive. Used to express probability. Indicates that the speaker regards the referent of the construct as probable. This word comprises a scale, along with "la'a nai". See also la'a nai, the preface. (cf. lakne)
    • Keywords: probably. likely. in all likelihood.

Examples of la'a Usage

.i le mensi be mi ca xabju la boston ja'e le nu la'a mi vitke fi le se diklo

My sister lives in Boston, hence, I'll likely visit the area.

la'a le vukrygu'e tcini cu ba se jalge lo nu panpi ku'i

What's happening in Ukraine will probably result in peace, however.

la'a na go'i

That's probably not so.

Proposed Definition of la'a nai

la'a nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express improbability. Indicates that the speaker regards the referent of the construct as improbable. This word comprises a scale, along with "la'a". See also la'a nai, the preface.
    • Keywords: improbability (discursive). unlikely.

Examples of la'a nai Usage

i ku'i la'a nai su'o da cizra ro de ro di

But it is unlikely that something is strange to everyone in every way.

Proposed Definition of li'a

li'a (UI3)
Discursive. Used to express obviousness. Indicates that the speaker regards the referent of the construct as obvious. This word comprises a scale, along with "li'a nai". See also li'a nai, the preface. (cf. klina)
    • Keywords: clearly. obviously.

Examples of li'a Usage

li'a la cein noi samjundi slilu cu jai fenki

Shane, who goes off and on attending the computer, is obviously crazy.

li'a la lojban zmadu la postskript lo ka frili

Clearly, Lojban is easier than Postscript.

.i li'a mi na viska ro marna pilno .i ku'i lo zasni nu bebna cu se rinka lo nu pilno lo marna .i ro prenu cu djuno la'e di'u

Of course, I haven't seen all marijuana users. But marijuana use causes temporary stupidity. Everyone knows that.

Proposed Definition of li'a nai

li'a nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express obscureness. Indicates that the speaker regards the referent of the construct as obscure (ie. difficult to understand). This word comprises a scale, along with "li'a". See also li'a, the preface.
    • Keywords: obscurely.

Examples of li'a nai Usage

li'anai go'i je'e

Right, I see. But it's complicated.

Proposed Definition of mu'a

mu'a (UI3)
Discursive. Used to flag a construct as an example. This word comprises a scale, along with "mu'a cu'i" and "mu'a nai". See also mu'a cu'i, mu'a nai, the preface. (cf. mupli)
    • Keywords: for example. for instance. e.g.

Examples of mu'a Usage

mu'a lo tcima

Weather, for instance.

.i mu'a lo prenu poi xadni nitcu lo xalka cu kakne le nu morsi ri'a le nu na pinxe

For instance, people who physically have to have alcohol can die from not drinking.

Proposed Definition of mu'a cu'i

mu'a cu'i (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express that examples are being omitted. This word comprises a scale, along with "mu'a" and "mu'a nai". See also mu'a, mu'a nai, the preface.
    • Keywords: omitting examples.

Examples of mu'a cu'i Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

so'u prenu mu'a cu'i cu rivbi lo nu nicygau le kumfa

A few people (I'm not telling who) have not cleaned up the room.

Proposed Definition of mu'a nai

mu'a nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as a concluding example. This word comprises a scale, along with "mu'a" and "mu'a cu'i". See also mu'a, mu'a cu'i, the preface.
    • Keywords: and such.

Examples of mu'a nai Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

mi pu citka lo vrici grute no'u mu'a lo plise .e lo badna mu'a nai .i ji'a mi pu citka re patlu

I ate different fruits like apples and bananas and such. I also ate two potatoes.

Proposed Definition of pa'e

pa'e (UI3)
Discursive. Used to express justness or impartiality. This word comprises a scale, along with "pa'e nai". See also pa'e nai, the preface. (cf. tcinydracu'a, tcinydrapai, vudypai)
    • Keywords: justness (discursive). impartially.

Examples of pa'e Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

pa'e le skina cu mutce xlali

My unbiased opinion is that the movie is awful.

Proposed Definition of pa'e nai

pa'e nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express prejudice, bias, or partiality. This word comprises a scale, along with "pa'e". See also pa'e, the preface.
    • Keywords: prejudice (discursive). partiality.

Examples of pa'e nai Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

pa'e nai la lojban. je'u xamgu

Of course I'm biased, but Lojban really is quite good.

Proposed Definition of pau

pau (UI3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as a non-rhetorical question, that is, a question that is supposed to be answered. This word comprises a scale, along with "pau". See also pau, the preface.
    • Keywords: question:. tell me.

Examples of pau Usage

pau do te preti lo se du'u ma krinu lo nu balvi kei ji lo nu pilno kei

You are asking about something that is the reason for something happening in the future, and/or a usage. What is that reason, and is it for something happening in the future, a usage, or both?

ku'i le se badri cu na cliva mi'a .i ze'e go'i .i ki'u ma pau

But the sad things don't go away. They never do. Why is that so?

Proposed Definition of pau nai

pau nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as a rhetorical question, that is, a question that is not supposed to be answered. This word comprises a scale, along with "pau". See also pau, the preface.
    • Keywords: rhetorical question:.

Examples of pau nai Usage

.i do tavla fi ma pau nai

What are you talking about?!

Proposed Definition of ra'u

ra'u (UI3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as being relatively high in importance. This word comprises a scale, along with "ra'u cu'i" and "ra'u nai". See also ra'u cu'i, ra'u nai, the preface. (cf. ralju, vajni)
    • Keywords: above all. primarily. chiefly.

Examples of ra'u Usage

.i go'i fa ra'u le nunfanva cipra jufra pe le fanmo be ro te ctuca pagbu

Above all, the translation exercises at the end of each chapter are.

Proposed Definition of ra'u cu'i

ra'u cu'i (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as being of equal importance. This word comprises a scale, along with "ra'u" and "ra'u nai". See also ra'u, ra'u nai, the preface.
    • Keywords: equally important.

Examples of ra'u cu'i Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

le xe flalu cu te mukti lo nu lo ninmu cu se jibri lo se gunka poi pu steci lo nanmu .i ra'u cu'i le xe flalu cu te mukti lo nu lo nanmu cu se jibri lo se gunka poi pu steci lo ninmu

The lawgivers wanted women to work in traditionally male occupations. Equally importantly, the lawgivers wanted men to work in traditionally female occupations.

Proposed Definition of ra'u nai

ra'u nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as being relatively low in importance. This word comprises a scale, along with "ra'u" and "ra'u cu'i". See also ra'u, ra'u cu'i, the preface.
    • Keywords: incidentally.

Examples of ra'u nai Usage

ra'u nai mi djuno le du'u zoi u rlpowell u na cmevla

Incidentally, I know that "rlpowell" is not a Lojban name.

Proposed Definition of sa'e

sa'e (UI3)
Discursive. Used to express exactness. This word comprises a scale, along with "sa'e nai". See also sa'e nai, the preface. (cf. satci, jibni)
    • Keywords: precisely speaking. to be precise. to be exact.

Examples of sa'e Usage

sa'e mi pinxe lo xunre vanju

To be precise, I drank red wine.

je'e .i mi na jimpe sa'e fi le cfila

Okay. To be precise, it is understanding the flaws that I don't.

Proposed Definition of sa'e nai

sa'e nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express inexactness. This word comprises a scale, along with "sa'e". See also sa'e, the preface.
    • Keywords: roughly. approximately.

Examples of sa'e nai Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

sa'e nai lo mikce cu cikre lo prenu

Roughly speaking, a doctor repairs people.

Proposed Definition of sa'u

sa'u (UI3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as being simply put. This word comprises a scale, along with "sa'u nai". See also sa'u nai, the preface. (cf. sampu, pluja)
    • Keywords: simply speaking. simply put.

Examples of sa'u Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

sa'u lo remna cu gunma lo so'i selci

Simply put, a human being is an aggregate of many cells.

Proposed Definition of sa'u nai

sa'u nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as being an elaboration. This word comprises a scale, along with "sa'u". See also sa'u, the preface.
    • Keywords: furthermore.

Examples of sa'u nai Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

sa'u nai ro selci be lo remna cu cmima pa lo so'i klesi

Furthermore, each cell in the human body belongs to one out of many classes.

Proposed Definition of ta'o

ta'o (UI3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as digressive. This word comprises a scale, along with "ta'o nai". See also ta'o nai, the preface. (cf. denpa, cneterta'a)
    • Keywords: by the way. incidentally.

Examples of ta'o Usage

ta'o xu do se cmene zo robin. ji'a

By the way, are you called Robin as well?

ta'o mi caca'o citka lo stasu belo dembi

By the way, I am eating a bean stew right now.

Proposed Definition of ta'o nai

ta'o nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express a return to main point. This word comprises a scale, along with "ta'o". See also ta'o, the preface.
    • Keywords: back to the point.

Examples of ta'o nai Usage

.i ta'onai mi ca jimpe tu'a zo marji .i .e'u pilno lu marce vorme li'u

But back to the point; I now understand the word "material". I suggest using "vehicle door".

Proposed Definition of to'u

to'u (UI3)
Discursive. Used to express brevity. This word comprises a scale, along with "to'u nai". See also to'u nai, the preface. (cf. tordu, clani, tcidu)
    • Keywords: shortly. in brief. in short.

Examples of to'u Usage

.i to'u ko ca troci tu'a la dikt

In short, try Dict.

Proposed Definition of to'u nai

to'u nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to express elaborateness. This word comprises a scale, along with "to'u". See also to'u, the preface.
    • Keywords: in detail. elaborately.

Examples of to'u nai Usage

.i to'unai mi pensi le smuni be lu ko no'e zasti li'u

In detail, I'm considering the meaning of the command "exist somewhat".

Proposed Definition of va'i

va'i (UI3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as a reformulation. This word comprises a scale, along with "va'i nai". See also va'i nai, the preface.
    • Keywords: in other words. put differently. to rephrase.

Examples of va'i Usage

va'i do tugni mi xu

In other words, you agree with me?

.i va'i mu'i ma do cusku lo judri

To rephrase, why did you say an address?

va'i nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as a verbatim repetition. This word comprises a scale, along with "va'i". See also va'i, the preface.
    • Keywords: in their exact words. as they put it.

Examples of va'i nai Usage

None found. Constructed examples follow:

do co'a mutce tatpi .i va'i nai do co'a mutce tatpi

You are feeling very tired. Yes, you are feeling very tired.

Proposed Definition of zu'u

zu'u (UI3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as representing one viewpoint. This word comprises a scale, along with "zu'u nai". See also zu'u nai, the preface. (cf. karbi, frica. dukti)
    • Keywords: on the one hand.

Examples of zu'u Usage

None found. Constructed example follow:

zu'u le stuzi cu jai tolkargu .i zu'u nai ri glare dukse

On the one hand, the place is cheap. On the other hand, it's too hot.

Proposed Definition of zu'u nai

zu'u nai (UI*3)
Discursive. Used to mark a construct as representing another, contrasting viewpoint. This word comprises a scale, along with "zu'u". See also zu'u, the preface.
    • Keywords: on the other hand.

Examples of zu'u nai Usage

.i zu'u nai le degji pi so'e roi te ganse jdika ri'a lo nu mi to'e xamgu sipna

On the other hand, my fingers usually get numb when I haven't slept well.

Notes

The most contentious part of this section seems to be the definition of da'i. da'i is different from the other discursives, because it may be irrealis -- the definition seems to affect the truth-functional meaning of the sentence in which it occurs.

Impact

da'i is sanctioned as a marker of the antecedent in subjunctive clauses. Prior usage that ties da'i to the consequent of the subjunctive clause is deemed erroneous.

Poll

{POLL(pollId=>26)}BPFK Poll: Discursives{POLL}