experimental gismu

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lo mingi'u = experimental gismu

Preceding these with za'e will endear you to those of us who are not committed naturalists (not using them at all will endear you even more).

Staple food

Prunus

plumu = x1 is a peach/plum/cherry/almond of species x2
  • phma:
    • prunu conflicts with pruni ("elastic"). We have fu'ivla for some of the species, but no concise way to distinguish between a plum and any member of the whole genus without using fu'ivla rafsi (ziryrutrprunu). With this gismu, it could be zirplumu - not that all plums are the same color.
      • Adam:
        • This might be a good temporary gismu, but plant and animal gismu should be done by the algorithm.
smela = plum (instead of plumu)
  • la najrut:
    • fixed version of scoreGismu gives the answer. "plum" in all langs:
      • Chinese Méi > mei
      • Hindi Bēra > bera
      • English plum > plam
      • Spanish ciruela > siruela
      • Russian sliva > sliva
      • Arabic Brqwq > byrkuk
      • mei 0.347 bera 0.196 plam 0.160 siruela 0.123 sliva 0.089 byrkuk 0.085
      • The highest score of 0.53 has smela. And I suggest zirsmela for plum, xunsmela for cherry, najysmela for peach, pelsmela for apricot, ri'onsmela for almond, blasmela for sloe.

Coconut

kokso = coconut
  • la najrut:
    • Coconut is just as important as bread in some countries. So we have
      • Chinese / Hindi / English / Spanish / Russian / Arabic
      • keke 0.347 / koko 0.196 / koko 0.160 / koko 0.123 / kokos 0.089 / kuku 0.085
    • And the highest score of 0.7662 have "koklo kokpo skoko kokro kokco kokso ckoko kokno kokfo kokmo kokto". So I suggest kokso (as the sound "s" is present in one of the six langs).

Papaya

pamga = papaya
  • najrut:
    • papaya is prevalent in America.
    • We have "mugua 0.347 papita 0.196 papaia 0.160 papaia 0.123 papaia 0.089 babaia 0.085" and scoreGismu outputs "pimga pamga" with the score of 0.4922

Gismu for living beings

Crow

korvo = x1 is a crow/raven/magpie/jay of species x2
  • Derived from Latin corvus, this word matches English crow, Spanish cuervo, and Hebrew `orev (what's the Arabic word?).
    • Since Latin "corvus" first of all means "raven", I'd put it first: x1 is a raven/crow/... "`orev" is both raven and crow, so it is in Malti (very close to Arabic) where it's "cawlun" (tcaulun); "cock-crow" also is "il-ghajta tasserduk" (il 'aita...).

Crustacean

  • phma:
    • There should be for crustacean, arachnid, and insect a gismu. Most people AFAIK have no problem for most arthropods telling which they are, with a few exceptions like the horseshoe crab, which despite its name is a chelicerate, like the arachnids. With three gismu we could easily tell the crab month from the scorpion month. It makes no sense to me that the same gismu is used for both.
      • I'm not so sure. Hardly anyone will be able to tell you that a pill bug is a crustacean.
      • la najrut:
        • An improved version of scoreGismu outputs:
          • Crustacean: lonxia 0.347 krefica 0.196 lopstr 0.160 langosta 0.123 rak 0.089 srtan.albxr 0.085 {lokra klora 0.44}
          • Insect: cinki
          • Arachnid: jiju 0.347 makari 0.196 spaidr 0.160 arana 0.123 pauk 0.089 xnkbut 0.085 {jijru jidju 0.40}
        • We have suggested gismu and their score in braces. I'm not sure whether I've done the proper transliteration. So please put me right if necessary. I think lokra and jidju would be nice for new gismu and jukni should become obsolete in favor of them.
      • Plastic Raven:
        • I think there are proportionally a few too many gismu for mammals as opposed to other animals. For example, there is "cmacu" (mouse) as well as "ratce" (rat) but no gismu for "turtle," "frog," or any aquatic invertebrates.

Other concepts that might have gismu

See also a [page on unofficial gismu

frili + sampu

  • frili and sampu might be merged into one gismu.
    • frili:x1 is easy for x2 under conditions x3
    • sampu:x1 is simple in property x2
      • la najrut:
        • For now, we may use temporary lujvo
filsampu = {{{2}}}

intention

See also: intensional
  • Adam:
    • Something along the lines of x1 is intended to be/supposed to be x2 (ka) as intended by x3. Unless someone can tell me how to say this with existing gismu, which would be great. jinzi, bilga don't seem quite right.
      • Something with djica dunli.
  • The idea is to translate those pesky things like "wine bottle". According to the most common interpretation (as far as I can tell), botpi lo vanju must actually contain wine. A wine bottle could be something like broda lo ka vanju botpi if broda has the place structure above.
    • How many people would have a problem with vanju botpi? Do you think somebody would ask how a bottle could be made out of wine?
      • The problem isn't vanju botpi. If I have an bottle filled with water which is a wine bottle in English by shape and probably former contents, I can't call it a ca'a botpi lo vanju in Lojban, and thus vanju botpi may be misleading.
        • I am afraid you are being too literal. A bottle that is has only held water, but was made to hold wine, is still a vanju botpi.
          • So you would say ti vanju botpi lo djacu in the case above?
            • la xod:
              • Yes. And if anybody complains, let them first read Chapter 12 section 2 (p. 275 in the printed version). The English word "for" in the definition of botpi (...bottle for x2) may create some confusion. It may be interpreted to mean that is what the bottle is intended to contain, but not what it actually contains! Insisting upon that usage would drive us to botpi lo vanju fi'o vasru lo djacu ti botpi lo vanju fi'o vasru lo djacu. Of course, none of this is anything like a general solution to your original issue! How would you like a fi'o djitai modal?
    • xorxes:
      • ti tutci lo'e nu botpi lo vanju. This is used for bottling wine. ti vanbo'itci
        • That sounds like a device for filling wine bottles to me.
          • The English translation may be misleading. Maybe it should be This is used to contain wine. botpi of course does not mean to bottle in the sense of putting into a bottle, there is no such action implied in the Lojban version.

predicate word

brivo = predicate-word: x1 (quote) is a predicate-word expressing relationship x2 among arguments x3
See also: brivo

pitsa pizza: x1 is a pizza of type x2? with ingredients/toppings x2? mi'e .filip.

salsa salsa: x1 is a quantity of salsa containing ingredients x2

  • But sanso already means that! --mi'e xorxes
    • this is just more specific.
      • No it isn't, salsa is just the Spanish word for sauce. This can be done with sanso if you put chips in the x2 place. - .kreig.daniyl.
        • salsa is also the Italian word for sauce. When an Italian says "salsa", what he means more likely has tarragon and oregano in it than chili peppers. -phma
  • mexsanso also works. I hardly think this concept is so important that a lujvo isn't good enough.
    • Any particular reason this is mexno and not xispo or whatever?
      • The Spanish word "salsa" means sanso: any kind of sauce. The English word "salsa", borrowed from Spanish, means mexsanso, some typically Mexican sauce, I suppose. To an Argentinian, "salsa" does not have any strong association to that kind of sauce. Using salsa for mexsanso is malmerko. --xorxes
  • Salsa is sort of like Barbeque. To some people, it is a specific thing, to others it is not. And to those for whom it is specific, the answer may differ. (Ask me sometime about the confusion this can cause when you want to buy salsa or offer tips on barbequeing). - mi'e. .kreig.daniyl.

taksi taxi: x1 is a taxi/cab

  • xorxes pointed out that this should have a place for passenger/cargo, probably in x2. (Compare karce, carce, and marce, which all have "for carrying x2".) I suggest that taksi (should it exist) also have a place for usual area of operation, and possibly one for the driver. Perhaps something like taksi taxi: x1 is a taxi/cab for carrying x2, operating in area x3, with driver x4? - mi'e .filip.
    • Generally, within reason, the more places (up to five), the better. In this case, .filip.'s proposed places sound reasonable to me. --Plastic Raven

tango tango: members of set x1 consisting of lead x2 and follower x3 dance a tango

  • This clashes with tanko
  • x1 (couple) tangoes to accompaniment/music x2 (the place structure of dansu seems much more appropriate, besides the tango is a kind of music before being a dance)
    • tangygi'a for the lead and tangyselgi'a for the follower.
  • .i lo'e remei cu sarcu le nu tango
    • In addition to the clash with "tanko", "tango" encourages pronunciation of the outside-Lojban-ubiquitous "ng" sound, which does not exist in Lojban. --Plastic Raven

zbiga Asbergerish: x1 is a manifestation of Asberger's Syndrome in x2 as detected by x3

  • do you mean "Asperger's Syndrome"? -b- seems a common mispeling on the Web, however. Maybe spiga, then? --pne
    • This seems like it would be used much more often by outsiders in reference to the Lojban community than the other way around. Since Asperger's syndrome isn't normally a common topic of discussion, this is almost like asking for trouble, but not necessarily in a bad way. --Plastic Raven

zombi zombie: x1 is a zombie in event/activity x2

  • As amusing as that would be, I think gismu for various types of undead is probably going just waaay too far. (Should be a feasible lujvo, though.)
    • Take a look at what happened to the innocent word "vampire" in round two of Broken Phone.
      • You could just use compounds involving "crida" and any other morbid gismu. --Plastic Raven

nisku fraik: x1 is a fraik/marrot/eligug of species x2

  • This is a back-formation from sfenisku "Penguin", which is a kind of nisku that stays on or goes under the surface, as opposed to other kinds of nisku which can fly. The great auk was a sefta nisku, but not a sfenisku.
  • {xatci} for 'yawn'. - Lindar
    • Why {xatci} ?
      • Chinese Dǎ hāqian daxakian
      • Hindi Jambhā'ī jambai
      • English yawn ion
      • Spanish bostez-o bostez
      • Russian zev zev
      • Arabic ttha'b tytyxaxb
    • Then scoreGismu suggests "ximna/kibni/kimna/xibni/dibni". But isn't fu'ivla much better for 'yawn' ? -- mi'e najrut

Clockwise and counter-clockwise probably deserve gismu (complete with axis/frame of reference place).

See also