SE + x2-less brivla

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If broda has only an x1 and no x2, what does se broda mean?
  • se broda just means that there has been a reordering of places. If something fills the x1 of se broda, there is a big semantical problem. .greg. used se broda in se zasti lo ninmu poi cisma. I thought when I wrote it that zasti had only an x1, but I still feel that the sentence was correct in my original intension. Just like I believe se blanu ta is an equally correct form of ta blanu
    • And Rosta:
      • This makes sense, but you could also have said zasti fa, so although the proposed convention would invalidate your usage, it wouldn't deny you the ability to postpose x1.

And Rosta proposed that it denote a predicate that is semantically related to broda but has an x2. The meaning would be tanru-like in that it would be established from context, but selbroda would have a fixed meaning that, once established, could be listed in a dictionary.

  • I believe that selbroda could mean something, but I would not expect to have to find a meaning for ta se broda

I further propose that broda fe ko'a work similarly, where broda lacks an x2.

Needless to say, te broda would force reconstrual as a 3-place predicate, xe broda as a 5-place, and so forth.

  • Blah. Overcomplex. If you stick something in a non-existant place, expect to get well deserved blank stares.
    • If you use za'e first, at least your hearers will know some monkey business is afoot.
  • An example from usage: da pu laldo ninmu co tunlo le sfani
  • And Rosta:
    • What prompted this proposal was Jorge's preference for se ka over poi'i. Adding an x2 to ordinary ka would be a Bad Thing, unless x2-less ka were replaced by du'u.
      • la xod:
        • x2-less ka is du'u, assuming there are su'o zo ce'u. The suggested ka2 was for something that can fit in the single ce'u of the ka bridi. (I don't believe it was ever defined for ka with multiple ce'u.) It's not really that useful except to ease the transition of those who liked the idea of ka without any ce'u, into the modern, purified usage.
          • And Rosta:
            • Yes: on the semantic equivalence of ka and du'u but the interpretive distinction, see ka, du'u, si'o, ce'u, zo'e, which was a summary of the consensus we (including you) reached. I don't remember the ka2 you're talking about, but I think it is different from the se ka that would replace poi'i, since this se ka is just ordinary ka with an added place for the thing that has the property: ko'a se ka ce'u broda = ko'a se ckaji lo'e ka ce'u broda.