Talk:proga:LMW - Lojbanic MediaWiki

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Broken pages

While importing the content of the old wiki into LMW the attachments with the following attachments couldn't be imported because they were files of zero length.

254 262 649 650 654 655 656 657 658 85

Other removed pages

863 and 310 files removed as it was from http://www.lojban.org/tiki/Sandbox

http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Draft_SandBox removed

http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/Draft_Tiki_Feature_Testing removed

805 is removed as it's a duplicate of 818.

The menu

Here is the old menu:

  • Help
  • Home Page
  • Popular Pages
  • What's New?
  • Donate
  • Recent Changes
  • Login
  • About Lojban
  • What Is Lojban?
  • Why Learn Lojban?
  • What Is Lojban?, The Book
  • FAQ
  • Learning Lojban
  • Lojban For Beginners
  • Advanced Lojban
  • Texts In Lojban
  • Helping Out
  • Donate
  • Official LLG Projects
  • LLG Committees
  • Contributing To This Site
  • Giving Feedback
  • Resources
  • FAQ
  • Lojbanic Forums
  • Vocabulary
  • Promotional Materials
  • Community
  • Public Pages
  • Web Pages in Lojban
  • Lojban materials in other languages
  • Lojbanic Software
  • Multimedia
  • Texts In Lojban
  • Miscellaneous
  • About This Site
  • About The LLG
  • Contributing To This Site
  • LLG Publications
  • LLG Projects
  • LLG Committees
  • Contact Us

And here is the new one:

  • About
  • Introduction
  • FAQ
  • Learning
  • Books
  • Vocabulary
  • Lojbanic Software
  • Community
  • Mailing list
  • IRC Chat
  • Forums
  • Links
  • Contribute
  • Dictionary
  • Wiki
  • Toggle Multimedia
  • Lojbanic Texts
  • Audio
  • Wiki
  • Recent Changes
  • Public Pages
  • Popular Pages
  • RSS feed
  • The LLG
  • Official Projects
  • Publications
  • Committees
  • Donate!
  • Links to pages which need creating.

Feel free to create pages that need making, otherwise I will do them tomorrow. The 'Learning' page needs to be a 'getting started' page i.e. a clear and concise explanation of how to get learning with Lojban, books, vocabulary, community, rememberize or stuff like that, how to contribute, etc. Same theme for books, enumerate all the books in a clear way ready to be compared.

  • la gleki:
    I think the fewer links the better. Newbies shouldn't be shocked by a large number of strings to read when they enter mw.lojban.org. Here are my suggestions:
  • Learning
  • Questions
  • Contacts
  • Discussion board
  • Recent changes

Well, may be we should add "Texts in Lojban" but that page needs to be in Lojban itself since no one could read it unles they speak Lojban. Thus, this link should probably be put only inside pages related to learning and onto the main opage localised to Lojban.

Similar sites

Two web sites with similar navigation, and one which is also Wiki-based:

These sites are good-ish, especially the Python one. The Haskell one could be simpler but it is generally a fine example of a wiki-based web site imo.

Both of these web sites are worthy of having their ideas stolen, if any.

Jim Dabell's implementation

Imho it's a nice idea, but it's a lot harder than simply editing the existing Lojban web site as it is to our needs:

Plus it looks like it'll never get done. I think it's better for someone like me to shout at people and tell them to get their shit together and start organising and using the wiki, for the community as a whole, rather than making a pretty web site which is incompatible with the rather large pre-existing wiki.

Pin Stack, whoever that is

http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2008/07/lojban-needs-to-reorganize.html

Has the right idea in general, make the wiki more organised, less cluttered, etc. But has unrealistic expectations about installing a new wiki and moving the site over to it. Isn't going to happen, imo (at least right now).

Positive suggestions from alternjupiter

http://community.livejournal.com/lojban/36512.html

Again, doesn't seem, to me, that a complete rewrite is needed at all. Mere sensible modifications are called for. Nice points, though.

purpleposeidon's updated (1) thoughts

  • Have the menu items indented, and have the menus default to being collapsed. (And when a top-level menu is clicked, it should visit the link and expand the menu.)
  • lojban fortunes, slashdot style, would be nice, changed every eight hours or so. (There could be random/convoluted attitudinals, and one-liners from IRC, jbotcan, books... but that would be its own project.)

I started a fortune file a while ago (I like fortune) - cmacis fortune file

  • Merge the live journal and last forum post feeds into one
  • Reduce the number of live journal/mailing list items on the home page, and have a "More News" page
  • Make the URLs pretty
  • lojban.org is powered by so many things, it's a wonder it doesn't explode. What I really mean is... is it really neccessary to have all of those icons on the bottom?
  • That search bar seems kindof iffy.
  • Put the logout stuff on the top-right corner
  • Put the logo at the top.
  • Having a long wait (nearly 5 seconds!?!?) for the homepage to load is not acceptable. Maybe "latest forum posts" slows stuff down? In that case, three possibilities: Don't have it (sadness); use an iframe (flashback to 2003); ajax (more effort). Consider putting a caching/proxy server in front of the website. It would probably be the easiest way to try to speed things up. (You could have HTTP running on port 81, and the cache running on :80)
  • I agree. I've changed the default to collapsed and clicking the section visits a link, but I think the tiki software will have to be modified to support what is wanted.
  • No idea what fortunes are, will look at this later.
  • Live journal is blog software, I don't think it should be merged with the forum at all, in a feed.
  • Agreed, the news section isn't relevant for newbies who'll have feeds etc. anyway, it could be below a description of lojban, the lojban community and the web site.

Cmacis' tuppence worth

The site looks and feels like nothing else I've encountered, except maybe from my early days on the net. Lojban good, but this site is a mess. Sometimes someone will link something nice, but I've never a clue how they got to it. This editor looked daunting at first, but is quickly growing on me. I know that right now I'm whining without suggesting anything. I know that moving from the tiki is a big ouch, but has anyone considered more usual wiki software? People know this stuff.

On killing the tiki .iunai

I was just looking into the possibility of switching away from the tiki .iunai to something that actually merits use, and it doesn't seem like it would be that hard. Instructions for moving everything over to MediaWiki (what Wikipedia and everything else use) can be found at [1]; unfortunately, it requires admin access to the tiki .iunai, thus quashing my plans to mirror the site on wikia.com as proof-of-concept.

On a related note, I would like to suggest changing the main lojban.org page back to the one viewable at [2]. (I swore, until recently it was still available at [3], but apparently not anymore. MUST ALL GOOD LOJBAN RESOURCES BE DESTROYED?) The tiki .iunai could still be accessible via a link on that page, while showing newcomers actually user-friendly & navigable information.

mu'omi'e .kamymecraijun.

Yes, I think it would be better to have the lojban.org as a mediawiki site. It's far more user-friendly.

mu'o mi'e omologos

You can think what you like, but Tiki is the only system I know of that does decent forum<->email gatewaying besides Google Groups, which would mean losing control over the lists. As such, I will oppose any attempt to replace it.

As far as the old web page goes, I got near constant complaints about it. Your single vote for it, I'm afraid, doesn't count for much. I moved it because many of the things it points to are on the tiki site now. However, I've put it back at http://lojban.org/old-style/ just for you.

If you want admin access to the tiki for any purpose, just come find me on #lojban ; I'm helpful like that.

mu'o mi'e camgusmis

  • la gleki:
    That gatewaying hasnt been working since 2010. Do we still need it?

UPDATE: the current mediawiki became the main wiki on March 30 2015.

Formatting Lojban text

Am I the only one who prefers that lojban be in italics? I find the italicized comma and apostrophe more attractive. I also think that commas and periods in the middle of words such as for names or fu'ivla are less disruptive if the surrounding letters are italicized. But maybe I'm just off my rocker. - mi'e .kreig.daniyl.

Posted by brablonau on Fri 26 of May, 2006 13:51 GMT posts: 80
Ok, good. But how on Earth does one start a NEW page??
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rlpowellPosted by rlpowell on Wed 31 of May, 2006 05:58 GMT posts: 14214

On Fri, May 26, 2006 at 06:51:39AM -0700, brablonau wrote: > Ok, good. But how on Earth does one start a NEW page??

Thought it was pretty obvious from the part about quick edit module, but it should now be explicit.

-Robin

-- http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/ Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!" Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/

Posted by rlpowell on Thu 09 of Oct., 2003 01:11 GMT posts: 14214

On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 06:09:26PM -0700, wikidiscuss@lojban.org wrote: > * E-mail-to-forum gatewaying! You can now receive all changes to the WikiDiscuss forum15px|(external link) as e-mails, and replying to them will cause a forum post to occur! Just subscribe to the WikiDiscuss list. If your mail program asks, you definately want to reply to the "Reply-To" address, not any others. > **You can now reply to a Monitor This Page notice directly to the discussion forum for that page. > ** You can now receive e-mail notification on any wiki page change by ttp://www.lojban.org/lsg2/|subscribing to the WikiDiscuss list]

xorxes, note those please.

-Robin

-- Me: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. "Constant neocortex override is the only thing that stops us all from running out and eating all the cookies." — Eliezer Yudkowsky http://www.lojban.org/ *** .i cimo'o prali .ui

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Posted by xorxes on Thu 09 of Oct., 2003 17:25 GMT posts: 1912

> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 06:09:26PM -0700, wikidiscuss@lojban.org wrote: > > * E-mail-to-forum gatewaying! You can now receive all changes to > the WikiDiscuss forum15px|(external link) > as e-mails, and replying to them will cause a forum post to occur! Just > subscribe to the WikiDiscuss list. If your > mail program asks, you definately want to reply to the "Reply-To" > address, not any others. > > **You can now reply to a Monitor This Page notice directly to the > discussion forum for that page. > > ** You can now receive e-mail notification on any wiki page change by > ttp://www.lojban.org/lsg2/|subscribing to the WikiDiscuss list] > > xorxes, note those please.

ui ki'esai doi camgusmis

mi'e xorxes


'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''__ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

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Posted by xorxes on Thu 09 of Oct., 2003 17:25 GMT posts: 1912

> > Tiki Features And Information > Use this thread to discuss the Tiki Features And Information page. >

Could we _not_ receive a message like the above every time someone clicks on the discuss button but then doesn't write anything?

ki'e mi'e xorxes


'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''__ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com

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rlpowellPosted by rlpowell on Thu 09 of Oct., 2003 17:25 GMT posts: 14214

On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 05:36:43AM -0700, Jorge Llamb?as wrote: > > --- wikidiscuss@lojban.org wrote: > > > > Tiki Features And Information > > Use this thread to discuss the Tiki Features And Information page. > > > > Could we _not_ receive a message like the above every time someone > clicks on the discuss button but then doesn't write anything?

I think I just figured that out, yes.

-Robin

-- Me: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** I'm a *male* Robin. "Constant neocortex override is the only thing that stops us all from running out and eating all the cookies." — Eliezer Yudkowsky http://www.lojban.org/ *** .i cimo'o prali .ui

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rlpowellPosted by rlpowell on Thu 29 of Dec., 2005 05:53 GMT posts: 14214

"Rename "Login" menu item to "Login/Logout" (took me ~5 min. to find the logout link!)"

Umm, it's in the Login box in the upper right corner.

logged as: rlpowell Logout

Oh, and you didn't say who you were, despite instructions to do so.

-Robin

Why not tiki?

Advantages

  • The presence of Lojban on the web should be more automated. LMW has Twitter/Facebook plugin. twitter.com and facebook.com are very popular websites. Any changes to LMW are automatically posted without user interaction to special groups:
  • Performance. tiki is very slow when saving edits because it sends watchlist mail synchronously. Later versions of tiki send mail asynchronously, but there are barriers to upgrading tiki.
  • LMW has wysiwyg editing plugin so in some cases you can edit text like in MS Word without knowing wiki syntax.
  • LMW is multilingual. All languages are equal (Lojban is the topic of the wiki, not only one of the interface languages). On the main page you can on the language flag changing to your version of the wiki. the interface changes accordingly. the links to learning resources change according to your language.
  • MediaWiki has a lot of strings localized to dozens of languages. No need to localize the interface ourselves.
  • MediaWiki has a large active community led by WikiMedia foundation. They provide security and functionality. If in future they decide to migrate from PHP to a more advanced language they will provide tools for migration. Wikipedia (which uses MediaWiki engine) is the fifth used website on the web. It's unlikely it will be discontinued.
  • templates can be created easily with hardcoding them. Write templates as the content of the wiki!
  • API to fetch texts of pages

Migrating

As of August 1 2014.

  • Texts in Lojban in sync (see Talk: page)
  • all bpfk sections out of sync
  • Wave lessons and Lojban timeline redirect to LMW
  • Old BPFK Data in sync

Out of sync

  • What's New?

How we migrated from tiki to mediawiki?

  • Replaced the old Tiki (http://www.lojban.org/tiki/) while retaining all the stuff. As of August 2013 this goal is complete. The two wikis were slowly drifting apart since April 2013. LMW was synced back in January 2015. Otherwise LMW contained all the stuff from the tiki including text and attachments (files). However, in the tiki files are attached to pages whereas in LMW they are in a separate namespace "File:" and thus need to be linked from other pages directly. Or you can use the wiki search to find files by their names. People were welcome to copy new content from the old wiki to this one until the old tiki was frozen in 2015 making this one official. Since the old wiki is not much active this drifting apart was not a serious problem. Importing new content from the tiki was done son before LMW was announced as the official wiki.