BPFK Section: The Problem With comma

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The CLL's comments on comma break audio-visual isomorphism. Chapter 3, section 3:

The comma is used to indicate a syllable break within a word, generally one that is not obvious to the reader. Such a comma is written to separate syllables, but indicates that there must be no pause between them, in contrast to the period. Between two vowels, a comma indicates that some type of glide may be necessary to avoid a pause that would split the two syllables into separate words. It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma. However, a comma cannot be pronounced as a pause or glottal stop between the two letters separated by the comma, because that pronunciation would split the word into two words.

Otherwise, a comma is usually only used to clarify the presence of syllabic l, m, n, or r (discussed later). Commas are never required: no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma.

CLL, Chapter 3, section 3

  • la camgusmis:
    • If this is true, then {.a,i} and {.ai} are the same word ("no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma") but {.a,i} can be pronounced like {.a'i} ("It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma").
    • Both of this things cannot be true unless we restrict where , can go.
      • .aionys.:
        • My suggestion is to do away with either one or both of "no two Lojban words differ solely because of the presence or placement of a comma" and "It is always legal to use the apostrophe (IPA [h]) sound in pronouncing a comma", preferably the former, because in my mind "ah EE" (.a,i) is not the same as "I" (.ai), but "ah EE" (.a,i) and "ahEE" (.a'i) are.
      • cowan:
        • My view is the opposite: that pronouncing , as ' is bogus and shouldn't be allowed.
      • Plastic Raven:
        • I prefer 's to ,s anyway, and it seems un-Lojbanically superfluous to have both characters with such similar usages. People can use them if they want, but I hope, doesn't become the standard.
A Lojban word has one syllable for each of its vowels, diphthongs, and syllabic consonants

CLL 3.9

  • la tengo:
    • The word ai has one syllable with a diphthong in its core. Therefore it is illegal to insert comma in it.