Difference between revisions of "BPFK Section: Numeric selbri"

From Lojban
Jump to: navigation, search
m (Gleki moved page bPFK Section: Numeric selbri to BPFK Section: Numeric selbri without leaving a redirect)
(Importing reformatted page from tiki)
Line 1: Line 1:
 +
{{BPFK Section from tiki|BPFK Section: Numeric selbri|22}}
 +
{{BPFK Section box open}}
 +
=== cmavo: me (ME) ===
  
 
+
==== Proposed Definition ====
=== cmavo me (ME) ===
 
 
 
====  Proposed Definition ====
 
 
 
 
Converts a sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure ''"x1 is/are among the referents of the sumti"''.
 
Converts a sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure ''"x1 is/are among the referents of the sumti"''.
  
==== Proposed Tag ====
+
==== Proposed Tag ====
  
====  See Also ====
 
  
 +
==== See Also ====
 
* {me'u}
 
* {me'u}
 +
* {mei}
 
* {moi}
 
* {moi}
 +
* {gunma}
 +
* {cmima}
 +
==== Proposed Keywords ====
  
====  Proposed Keywords ====
 
 
====  Usage Examples ====
 
  
 +
==== Usage Examples ====
 
;xu do djica lo nu do me mi'a:"Do you want to be one of us?"
 
;xu do djica lo nu do me mi'a:"Do you want to be one of us?"
  
==== Notes ====
+
==== Notes ====
  
==== Issues ====
+
==== Issues ====
  
{BOX}
+
{{BPFK Section box close}}
  
 +
{{BPFK Section box open}}
 +
=== cmavo: me'u (MEhU) ===
  
=== cmavo me'u (MEhU) ===
+
==== Proposed Definition ====
 
 
====  Proposed Definition ====
 
 
 
 
Terminator for ME.
 
Terminator for ME.
  
==== Proposed Tag ====
+
==== Proposed Tag ====
  
====  See Also ====
 
  
 +
==== See Also ====
 
* {me}
 
* {me}
  
==== Proposed Keywords ====
+
==== Proposed Keywords ====
 
+
* terminator
==== Usage Examples ====
+
==== Usage Examples ====
 
+
;to lo me zo ku me'u pe di'u cu jai seldji vau li'a sai .u'i toi:''(The 'ku' of the previous sentence was intentional indeed lol)''
====  Notes ====
 
  
==== Issues ====
+
==== Notes ====
  
{BOX}
 
  
 +
==== Issues ====
  
===  cmavo moi (MOI) ===
+
{{BPFK Section box close}}
  
====  Proposed Definition ====
+
{{BPFK Section box open}}
 +
=== cmavo: moi (MOI) ===
  
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 is/are the ''[[number|number]]''th among x2 by rule x3"''. More generally, for any sumti the place structure is ''"x1 is/are the one(s) among x2 that correspond(s) to ''[[number/lerfu/sumti]]'' by rule x3"''.
+
==== Proposed Definition ====
 +
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 is/are the ''[number]''th among x2 by rule x3"''. More generally, for any sumti the place structure is ''"x1 is/are the one(s) among x2 that correspond(s) to ''[number/lerfu/sumti]'' by rule x3"''.
  
==== Proposed Tag ====
+
==== Proposed Tag ====
  
====  See also ====
 
  
 +
==== See also ====
 
* {me}
 
* {me}
 
* {mei}
 
* {mei}
 
 
* {si'e}
 
* {si'e}
 
* {cu'o}
 
* {cu'o}
 
 
* {va'e}
 
* {va'e}
  
==== Proposed Keywords ====
+
==== Proposed Keywords ====
  
====  Usage Examples ====
 
  
 +
==== Usage Examples ====
 
;ma xamoi le te minde i xamoi le te minde fa lo nu na catra:"Which is the sixth commandment? The sixth commandment is, Thou shalt not kill."
 
;ma xamoi le te minde i xamoi le te minde fa lo nu na catra:"Which is the sixth commandment? The sixth commandment is, Thou shalt not kill."
  
Line 84: Line 83:
 
;ta me mi moi:"That's mine."
 
;ta me mi moi:"That's mine."
  
==== Notes ====
+
==== Notes ====
  
====  Issues ====
 
  
 +
==== Issues ====
 
klaku: The moi3 is not very well defined. Is it a process by which to order? In that case, describing the process will lead to a very long sumti, which is not practical. I suggest that it is a {ka}, so that lo moi is ordered such that those with most of the property are before those with less of the property. Thus, "second in shortness" is {remoi fi loka tordu}, rather than something involving a description of an elobate process.
 
klaku: The moi3 is not very well defined. Is it a process by which to order? In that case, describing the process will lead to a very long sumti, which is not practical. I suggest that it is a {ka}, so that lo moi is ordered such that those with most of the property are before those with less of the property. Thus, "second in shortness" is {remoi fi loka tordu}, rather than something involving a description of an elobate process.
  
{BOX}
+
{{BPFK Section box close}}
  
 +
{{BPFK Section box open}}
 +
=== cmavo: mei (MOI) ===
  
=== cmavo mei (MOI) ===
+
==== Proposed Definition ====
 +
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 are ''[number]'' in number and are among x2"''. In general for any sumti the place structure is ''"x1 is/are among x2, quantified by ''[number/lerfu/sumti]''"''.
  
==== Proposed Definition ====
+
==== Proposed Tag ====
  
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 are ''[[number|number]]'' in number among x2"''. In general for any sumti the place structure is ''"x1 is/are among x2, quantified by ''[[number/lerfu/sumti]]''"''.
 
 
====  Proposed Tag ====
 
 
====  See Also ====
 
  
 +
==== See Also ====
 
* {me}
 
* {me}
 
* {moi}
 
* {moi}
 
 
* {si'e}
 
* {si'e}
 
* {cu'o}
 
* {cu'o}
 
 
* {va'e}
 
* {va'e}
  
==== Proposed Keywords ====
+
==== Proposed Keywords ====
  
====  Usage Examples ====
 
  
 +
==== Usage Examples ====
 
;ko drisla lo nuntolji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'i mei .i ku'i ko geisla lo nunji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'u mei:"Mourn the losses because they are many but celebrate the victories because they are few."
 
;ko drisla lo nuntolji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'i mei .i ku'i ko geisla lo nunji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'u mei:"Mourn the losses because they are many but celebrate the victories because they are few."
  
==== Notes ====
+
==== Notes ====
  
====  Issues ====
 
  
* [http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/3006bf2178e9175e ssues]
+
==== Issues ====
 +
* [http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/3006bf2178e9175e Issues]
  
 
klaku: The definitions for this cmavo are many and contradicting. CLL states 3 or four te sumti, this page's definition 2, and valsi/vlasisku states 3 te sumti. Also, it is not clear what mei3 is supposed to be. I suggest the other definitions be changed to match this one, with only 2 te sumti.
 
klaku: The definitions for this cmavo are many and contradicting. CLL states 3 or four te sumti, this page's definition 2, and valsi/vlasisku states 3 te sumti. Also, it is not clear what mei3 is supposed to be. I suggest the other definitions be changed to match this one, with only 2 te sumti.
 
{BOX}
 
  
  
===  cmavo si'e (MOI) ===
+
{{BPFK Section box close}}
  
====  Proposed Definition ====
+
{{BPFK Section box open}}
 +
=== cmavo: si'e (MOI) ===
  
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 is/are a ''[[number|number]]''th of x2"''. In general for any sumti the place structure is ''"x1 is a part/fraction of x2, quantified by ''[[number/lerfu/sumti]]''"''.
+
==== Proposed Definition ====
 +
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 is/are a ''[number]''th of x2"''. In general for any sumti the place structure is ''"x1 is a part/fraction of x2, quantified by ''[number/lerfu/sumti]''"''.
  
==== Proposed Tag ====
+
==== Proposed Tag ====
  
====  See Also ====
 
  
 +
==== See Also ====
 
* {me}
 
* {me}
 
* {mei}
 
* {mei}
 
 
* {moi}
 
* {moi}
 
* {cu'o}
 
* {cu'o}
 
 
* {va'e}
 
* {va'e}
  
==== Proposed Keywords ====
+
==== Proposed Keywords ====
  
====  Usage Examples ====
 
  
 +
==== Usage Examples ====
 
;lo so'i tadni cu zabna se ctuca lo gubni ckule .i ku'i lo go'i cu mo'a si'e lo ro mei:"Many students get a first-rate education in the public schools, but they represent too small a fraction of the whole."
 
;lo so'i tadni cu zabna se ctuca lo gubni ckule .i ku'i lo go'i cu mo'a si'e lo ro mei:"Many students get a first-rate education in the public schools, but they represent too small a fraction of the whole."
  
==== Notes ====
+
==== Notes ====
  
====  Issues ====
 
  
{BOX}
+
==== Issues ====
  
 +
{{BPFK Section box close}}
  
=== cmavo cu'o (MOI) ===
+
{{BPFK Section box open}}
 +
=== cmavo: cu'o (MOI) ===
  
==== Proposed Definition ====
+
==== Proposed Definition ====
 +
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure is ''"x1 has an expectation/probability ''[number/lerfu/sumti]'' under conditions x2"''.
  
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure is ''"x1 has an expectation/probability ''[[number/lerfu/sumti]]'' under conditions x2"''.
+
==== Proposed Tag ====
  
====  Proposed Tag ====
 
 
====  See Also ====
 
  
 +
==== See Also ====
 
* {me}
 
* {me}
 
* {mei}
 
* {mei}
 
 
* {moi}
 
* {moi}
 
* {si'e}
 
* {si'e}
 
 
* {va'e}
 
* {va'e}
  
==== Proposed Keywords ====
+
==== Proposed Keywords ====
  
====  Usage Examples ====
 
  
 +
==== Usage Examples ====
 
;la'e di'u cu mu no ce'i cu'o :"That has a fifty percent chance of happening."
 
;la'e di'u cu mu no ce'i cu'o :"That has a fifty percent chance of happening."
  
==== Notes ====
+
==== Notes ====
  
====  Issues ====
 
  
{BOX}
+
==== Issues ====
  
 +
{{BPFK Section box close}}
  
=== cmavo va'e (MOI) ===
+
{{BPFK Section box open}}
 +
=== cmavo: va'e (MOI) ===
  
==== Proposed Definition ====
+
==== Proposed Definition ====
 +
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure ''"x1 has value ''[number/lerfu/sumti]'' on scale x2"''.
  
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure ''"x1 has value ''[[number/lerfu/sumti]]'' on scale x2"''.
+
==== Proposed Tag ====
  
====  Proposed Tag ====
 
 
====  See Also ====
 
  
 +
==== See Also ====
 
* {me}
 
* {me}
 
* {moi}
 
* {moi}
 
 
* {mei}
 
* {mei}
 
* {si'e}
 
* {si'e}
 
 
* {cu'o}
 
* {cu'o}
  
==== Proposed Keywords ====
+
==== Proposed Keywords ====
  
====  Usage Examples ====
 
  
 +
==== Usage Examples ====
 
;ui lo mi prosa cu .abu va'e:"Yay! My essay was graded with an 'A'."
 
;ui lo mi prosa cu .abu va'e:"Yay! My essay was graded with an 'A'."
  
==== Notes ====
+
==== Notes ====
 +
 
 +
 
 +
==== Issues ====
  
====  Issues ====
+
{{BPFK Section box close}}
  
 +
{{BPFK Section box open}}
 +
=== Issues ===
 
The CLL has:
 
The CLL has:
  
 
* lei ratcu poi zvati le panka cu so'umei lo'i ratcu
 
* lei ratcu poi zvati le panka cu so'umei lo'i ratcu
 
* The-mass-of rats which are-in the park are a-fewsome with-respect-to the-set-of rats.
 
* The-mass-of rats which are-in the park are a-fewsome with-respect-to the-set-of rats.
 
 
* The rats in the park are a small number of all the rats there are.
 
* The rats in the park are a small number of all the rats there are.
  
 
Which I don't think fits with mei as we use it at all; either the definition here or the CLL needs changing.
 
Which I don't think fits with mei as we use it at all; either the definition here or the CLL needs changing.
  
=== Formal definitions ===
+
{{BPFK Section box close}}
  
||
+
{{BPFK Section box open}}
 +
===Formal definitions ===
  
MOI
+
{| class="wikitable"
 +
|colspan=1| MOI
 +
|-
 +
| ''x1'' ''number'' moi ''x2'' ''x3'' || ''x1'' me ''x2'' gi'e lidne da'a ''number'' me ''x2'' ''x3''
 +
|-
 +
| ''x1'' ''number'' mei ''x2'' || ''x1'' me ''x2'' gi'e klani li ''number'' lo se gradu be ''x2''
 +
|-
 +
| ''x1'' ''number'' si'e ''x2'' || ''x1'' pagbu ''x2'' gi'e klani li ''number'' lo se gradu be ''x2''
 +
|-
 +
| ''x1'' ''number'' cu'o ''x2'' || ''x1'' se pacna zi'o li ''number'' va'o ''x2''
 +
|-
 +
| ''x1'' ''number'' va'e ''x2'' || ''x1'' se merli zi'o li ''number'' ''x2''
 +
|}
  
''x1'' ''number'' moi ''x2'' ''x3'' | ''x1'' me ''x2'' gi'e lidne da'a ''number'' me ''x2'' ''x3''
+
{{BPFK Section box close}}
  
''x1'' ''number'' mei ''x2'' | ''x1'' me ''x2'' gi'e klani li ''number'' lo se gradu be ''x2''
+
{{BPFK Section box open}}
 
+
=== General Section Notes ===
''x1'' ''number'' si'e ''x2'' | ''x1'' pagbu ''x2'' gi'e klani li ''number'' lo se gradu be ''x2''
 
 
 
''x1'' ''number'' cu'o ''x2'' | ''x1'' se pacna zi'o li ''number'' va'o ''x2''
 
 
 
''x1'' ''number'' va'e ''x2'' | ''x1'' se merli zi'o li ''number'' ''x2''
 
 
 
||
 
 
 
=== General Section Notes ===
 
 
 
# The definition of '''me''' corresponds to the basic relation '''''Among''''' as formalized in [http://philosophy.syr.edu/mckay.html],  which also agrees with the definition as given in CLL.
 
  
 +
# The definition of '''me''' corresponds to the basic relation __''Among''__ as formalized in the book ''Plural Predication'' (Oxford University Press, 2006) by [http://thecollege.syr.edu/profiles/pages/mckay-thomas.html Thomas McKay],  which also agrees with the definition as given in CLL. See [[gadri: an unofficial commentary from a logical point of view]] for a precise discussion on plural quantification and '''me'''.
 
# The interpretation proposed for a ME-converted sumti with '''moi''' is an extension of the definition for n-moi as n-th.  
 
# The interpretation proposed for a ME-converted sumti with '''moi''' is an extension of the definition for n-moi as n-th.  
 +
# The second argument of '''mei''' is changed with respect to CLL, to make it more useful and more in line with the rest of the system.
 +
{{BPFK Section box close}}
  
# The second argument of '''mei''' is changed with respect to CLL, to make it more useful and more in line with the rest of the system.
+
== Poll ==
 +
{{BPFK Section poll| {POLL(pollId=>49)}{POLL} }}

Revision as of 22:57, 9 February 2015

This page is imported from version 22 of the page BPFK Section: Numeric selbri from the lojban Tiki.

cmavo: me (ME)

Proposed Definition

Converts a sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure "x1 is/are among the referents of the sumti".

Proposed Tag

See Also

  • {me'u}
  • {mei}
  • {moi}
  • {gunma}
  • {cmima}

Proposed Keywords

Usage Examples

xu do djica lo nu do me mi'a
"Do you want to be one of us?"

Notes

Issues

cmavo: me'u (MEhU)

Proposed Definition

Terminator for ME.

Proposed Tag

See Also

  • {me}

Proposed Keywords

  • terminator

Usage Examples

to lo me zo ku me'u pe di'u cu jai seldji vau li'a sai .u'i toi
(The 'ku' of the previous sentence was intentional indeed lol)

Notes

Issues

cmavo: moi (MOI)

Proposed Definition

Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is "x1 is/are the [number]th among x2 by rule x3". More generally, for any sumti the place structure is "x1 is/are the one(s) among x2 that correspond(s) to [number/lerfu/sumti] by rule x3".

Proposed Tag

See also

  • {me}
  • {mei}
  • {si'e}
  • {cu'o}
  • {va'e}

Proposed Keywords

Usage Examples

ma xamoi le te minde i xamoi le te minde fa lo nu na catra
"Which is the sixth commandment? The sixth commandment is, Thou shalt not kill."
ju'i do'u do tolcliva le ba'e romoi be le papri be la internet i a'o do pu zanfri lo nu catlu i caku ko tolcikygau le do skami gi'e barkla gi'e kelci
"Attention: You have reached the very last page of the Internet. We hope you have enjoyed your browsing. Now turn off your computer and go outside and play."
la cerni tarci cu romoi lo tarci poi ka'e se viska pu lo nu co'a donri
"The morning star is the last star that's visible before the dawning of the day."
le mi dinju cu da'apamoi le zunle
"My building is the one before last on the left hand side."
le ro relselxi'u cu mitsi'umlu i ta'i ma da djuno lo du'u makau me da moi
"All the bicycles looked alike. How could you tell which one was yours!"
ta me mi moi
"That's mine."

Notes

Issues

klaku: The moi3 is not very well defined. Is it a process by which to order? In that case, describing the process will lead to a very long sumti, which is not practical. I suggest that it is a {ka}, so that lo moi is ordered such that those with most of the property are before those with less of the property. Thus, "second in shortness" is {remoi fi loka tordu}, rather than something involving a description of an elobate process.



cmavo: mei (MOI)

Proposed Definition

Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is "x1 are [number] in number and are among x2". In general for any sumti the place structure is "x1 is/are among x2, quantified by [number/lerfu/sumti]".

Proposed Tag

See Also

  • {me}
  • {moi}
  • {si'e}
  • {cu'o}
  • {va'e}

Proposed Keywords

Usage Examples

ko drisla lo nuntolji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'i mei .i ku'i ko geisla lo nunji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'u mei
"Mourn the losses because they are many but celebrate the victories because they are few."

Notes

Issues

klaku: The definitions for this cmavo are many and contradicting. CLL states 3 or four te sumti, this page's definition 2, and valsi/vlasisku states 3 te sumti. Also, it is not clear what mei3 is supposed to be. I suggest the other definitions be changed to match this one, with only 2 te sumti.



cmavo: si'e (MOI)

Proposed Definition

Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is "x1 is/are a [number]th of x2". In general for any sumti the place structure is "x1 is a part/fraction of x2, quantified by [number/lerfu/sumti]".

Proposed Tag

See Also

  • {me}
  • {mei}
  • {moi}
  • {cu'o}
  • {va'e}

Proposed Keywords

Usage Examples

lo so'i tadni cu zabna se ctuca lo gubni ckule .i ku'i lo go'i cu mo'a si'e lo ro mei
"Many students get a first-rate education in the public schools, but they represent too small a fraction of the whole."

Notes

Issues

cmavo: cu'o (MOI)

Proposed Definition

Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure is "x1 has an expectation/probability [number/lerfu/sumti] under conditions x2".

Proposed Tag

See Also

  • {me}
  • {mei}
  • {moi}
  • {si'e}
  • {va'e}

Proposed Keywords

Usage Examples

la'e di'u cu mu no ce'i cu'o 
"That has a fifty percent chance of happening."

Notes

Issues

cmavo: va'e (MOI)

Proposed Definition

Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure "x1 has value [number/lerfu/sumti] on scale x2".

Proposed Tag

See Also

  • {me}
  • {moi}
  • {mei}
  • {si'e}
  • {cu'o}

Proposed Keywords

Usage Examples

ui lo mi prosa cu .abu va'e
"Yay! My essay was graded with an 'A'."

Notes

Issues

Issues

The CLL has:

  • lei ratcu poi zvati le panka cu so'umei lo'i ratcu
  • The-mass-of rats which are-in the park are a-fewsome with-respect-to the-set-of rats.
  • The rats in the park are a small number of all the rats there are.

Which I don't think fits with mei as we use it at all; either the definition here or the CLL needs changing.



Formal definitions

MOI
x1 number moi x2 x3 x1 me x2 gi'e lidne da'a number me x2 x3
x1 number mei x2 x1 me x2 gi'e klani li number lo se gradu be x2
x1 number si'e x2 x1 pagbu x2 gi'e klani li number lo se gradu be x2
x1 number cu'o x2 x1 se pacna zi'o li number va'o x2
x1 number va'e x2 x1 se merli zi'o li number x2



General Section Notes

  1. The definition of me corresponds to the basic relation __Among__ as formalized in the book Plural Predication (Oxford University Press, 2006) by Thomas McKay, which also agrees with the definition as given in CLL. See gadri: an unofficial commentary from a logical point of view for a precise discussion on plural quantification and me.
  2. The interpretation proposed for a ME-converted sumti with moi is an extension of the definition for n-moi as n-th.
  3. The second argument of mei is changed with respect to CLL, to make it more useful and more in line with the rest of the system.


Poll