BPFK Section: Numeric selbri: Difference between revisions
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{{BPFK Section from tiki|BPFK Section: Numeric selbri|22}} | |||
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=== cmavo: me (ME) === | |||
==== Proposed Definition ==== | |||
=== | |||
Converts a sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure ''"x1 is/are among the referents of the sumti"''. | Converts a sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure ''"x1 is/are among the referents of the sumti"''. | ||
==== | ==== Proposed Tag ==== | ||
==== See Also ==== | |||
* {me'u} | * {me'u} | ||
* {mei} | |||
* {moi} | * {moi} | ||
* {gunma} | |||
* {cmima} | |||
==== Proposed Keywords ==== | |||
==== Usage Examples ==== | |||
;xu do djica lo nu do me mi'a:"Do you want to be one of us?" | ;xu do djica lo nu do me mi'a:"Do you want to be one of us?" | ||
==== | ==== Notes ==== | ||
==== | ==== Issues ==== | ||
{ | {{BPFK Section box close}} | ||
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=== cmavo: me'u (MEhU) === | |||
=== | ==== Proposed Definition ==== | ||
Terminator for ME. | Terminator for ME. | ||
==== | ==== Proposed Tag ==== | ||
==== See Also ==== | |||
* {me} | * {me} | ||
==== | ==== Proposed Keywords ==== | ||
* terminator | |||
==== | ==== Usage Examples ==== | ||
;to lo me zo ku me'u pe di'u cu jai seldji vau li'a sai .u'i toi:''(The 'ku' of the previous sentence was intentional indeed lol)'' | |||
==== | ==== Notes ==== | ||
==== Issues ==== | |||
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=== | {{BPFK Section box open}} | ||
=== cmavo: moi (MOI) === | |||
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 is/are the '' | ==== Proposed Definition ==== | ||
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 is/are the ''[number]''th among x2 by rule x3"''. More generally, for any sumti the place structure is ''"x1 is/are the one(s) among x2 that correspond(s) to ''[number/lerfu/sumti]'' by rule x3"''. | |||
==== | ==== Proposed Tag ==== | ||
==== See also ==== | |||
* {me} | * {me} | ||
* {mei} | * {mei} | ||
* {si'e} | * {si'e} | ||
* {cu'o} | * {cu'o} | ||
* {va'e} | * {va'e} | ||
==== | ==== Proposed Keywords ==== | ||
==== Usage Examples ==== | |||
;ma xamoi le te minde i xamoi le te minde fa lo nu na catra:"Which is the sixth commandment? The sixth commandment is, Thou shalt not kill." | ;ma xamoi le te minde i xamoi le te minde fa lo nu na catra:"Which is the sixth commandment? The sixth commandment is, Thou shalt not kill." | ||
Line 80: | Line 79: | ||
;le mi dinju cu da'apamoi le zunle:"My building is the one before last on the left hand side." | ;le mi dinju cu da'apamoi le zunle:"My building is the one before last on the left hand side." | ||
;le ro relselxi'u cu mitsi'umlu i ta'i ma da djuno lo du'u makau me | ;le ro relselxi'u cu mitsi'umlu i ta'i ma da djuno lo du'u makau me do moi:"All the bicycles looked alike. How could you tell which one was yours!" | ||
;ta me mi moi:"That's mine." | ;ta me mi moi:"That's mine." | ||
==== | ==== Notes ==== | ||
==== Issues ==== | |||
klaku: The moi3 is not very well defined. Is it a process by which to order? In that case, describing the process will lead to a very long sumti, which is not practical. I suggest that it is a {ka}, so that lo moi is ordered such that those with most of the property are before those with less of the property. Thus, "second in shortness" is {remoi fi loka tordu}, rather than something involving a description of an elobate process. | klaku: The moi3 is not very well defined. Is it a process by which to order? In that case, describing the process will lead to a very long sumti, which is not practical. I suggest that it is a {ka}, so that lo moi is ordered such that those with most of the property are before those with less of the property. Thus, "second in shortness" is {remoi fi loka tordu}, rather than something involving a description of an elobate process. | ||
{ | {{BPFK Section box close}} | ||
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=== cmavo: mei (MOI) === | |||
=== | ==== Proposed Definition ==== | ||
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 are ''[number]'' in number and are among x2"''. In general for any sumti the place structure is ''"x1 is/are among x2, quantified by ''[number/lerfu/sumti]''"''. | |||
==== | ==== Proposed Tag ==== | ||
==== See Also ==== | |||
* {me} | * {me} | ||
* {moi} | * {moi} | ||
* {si'e} | * {si'e} | ||
* {cu'o} | * {cu'o} | ||
* {va'e} | * {va'e} | ||
==== | ==== Proposed Keywords ==== | ||
==== Usage Examples ==== | |||
;ko drisla lo nuntolji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'i mei .i ku'i ko geisla lo nunji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'u mei:"Mourn the losses because they are many but celebrate the victories because they are few." | ;ko drisla lo nuntolji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'i mei .i ku'i ko geisla lo nunji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'u mei:"Mourn the losses because they are many but celebrate the victories because they are few." | ||
==== | ==== Notes ==== | ||
* [http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/3006bf2178e9175e | ==== Issues ==== | ||
* [http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/3006bf2178e9175e Issues] | |||
klaku: The definitions for this cmavo are many and contradicting. CLL states 3 or four te sumti, this page's definition 2, and valsi/vlasisku states 3 te sumti. Also, it is not clear what mei3 is supposed to be. I suggest the other definitions be changed to match this one, with only 2 te sumti. | klaku: The definitions for this cmavo are many and contradicting. CLL states 3 or four te sumti, this page's definition 2, and valsi/vlasisku states 3 te sumti. Also, it is not clear what mei3 is supposed to be. I suggest the other definitions be changed to match this one, with only 2 te sumti. | ||
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=== | {{BPFK Section box open}} | ||
=== cmavo: si'e (MOI) === | |||
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 is/are a '' | ==== Proposed Definition ==== | ||
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is ''"x1 is/are a ''[number]''th of x2"''. In general for any sumti the place structure is ''"x1 is a part/fraction of x2, quantified by ''[number/lerfu/sumti]''"''. | |||
==== | ==== Proposed Tag ==== | ||
==== See Also ==== | |||
* {me} | * {me} | ||
* {mei} | * {mei} | ||
* {moi} | * {moi} | ||
* {cu'o} | * {cu'o} | ||
* {va'e} | * {va'e} | ||
==== | ==== Proposed Keywords ==== | ||
==== Usage Examples ==== | |||
;lo so'i tadni cu zabna se ctuca lo gubni ckule .i ku'i lo go'i cu mo'a si'e lo ro mei:"Many students get a first-rate education in the public schools, but they represent too small a fraction of the whole." | ;lo so'i tadni cu zabna se ctuca lo gubni ckule .i ku'i lo go'i cu mo'a si'e lo ro mei:"Many students get a first-rate education in the public schools, but they represent too small a fraction of the whole." | ||
==== | ==== Notes ==== | ||
==== Issues ==== | |||
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=== | {{BPFK Section box open}} | ||
=== cmavo: cu'o (MOI) === | |||
==== | ==== Proposed Definition ==== | ||
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure is ''"x1 has an expectation/probability ''[number/lerfu/sumti]'' under conditions x2"''. | |||
==== Proposed Tag ==== | |||
==== See Also ==== | |||
* {me} | * {me} | ||
* {mei} | * {mei} | ||
* {moi} | * {moi} | ||
* {si'e} | * {si'e} | ||
* {va'e} | * {va'e} | ||
==== | ==== Proposed Keywords ==== | ||
==== Usage Examples ==== | |||
;la'e di'u cu mu no ce'i cu'o :"That has a fifty percent chance of happening." | ;la'e di'u cu mu no ce'i cu'o :"That has a fifty percent chance of happening." | ||
==== | ==== Notes ==== | ||
==== Issues ==== | |||
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=== | {{BPFK Section box open}} | ||
=== cmavo: va'e (MOI) === | |||
==== | ==== Proposed Definition ==== | ||
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure ''"x1 has value ''[number/lerfu/sumti]'' on scale x2"''. | |||
==== Proposed Tag ==== | |||
==== See Also ==== | |||
* {me} | * {me} | ||
* {moi} | * {moi} | ||
* {mei} | * {mei} | ||
* {si'e} | * {si'e} | ||
* {cu'o} | * {cu'o} | ||
==== | ==== Proposed Keywords ==== | ||
==== Usage Examples ==== | |||
;ui lo mi prosa cu .abu va'e:"Yay! My essay was graded with an 'A'." | ;ui lo mi prosa cu .abu va'e:"Yay! My essay was graded with an 'A'." | ||
==== | ==== Notes ==== | ||
==== Issues ==== | |||
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=== Issues === | |||
The CLL has: | The CLL has: | ||
* lei ratcu poi zvati le panka cu so'umei lo'i ratcu | * lei ratcu poi zvati le panka cu so'umei lo'i ratcu | ||
* The-mass-of rats which are-in the park are a-fewsome with-respect-to the-set-of rats. | * The-mass-of rats which are-in the park are a-fewsome with-respect-to the-set-of rats. | ||
* The rats in the park are a small number of all the rats there are. | * The rats in the park are a small number of all the rats there are. | ||
Which I don't think fits with mei as we use it at all; either the definition here or the CLL needs changing. | Which I don't think fits with mei as we use it at all; either the definition here or the CLL needs changing. | ||
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===Formal definitions === | |||
MOI | {| class="wikitable" | ||
|colspan=1| MOI | |||
|- | |||
| ''x1'' ''number'' moi ''x2'' ''x3'' || ''x1'' me ''x2'' gi'e lidne da'a ''number'' me ''x2'' ''x3'' | |||
|- | |||
| ''x1'' ''number'' mei ''x2'' || ''x1'' me ''x2'' gi'e klani li ''number'' lo se gradu be ''x2'' | |||
|- | |||
| ''x1'' ''number'' si'e ''x2'' || ''x1'' pagbu ''x2'' gi'e klani li ''number'' lo se gradu be ''x2'' | |||
|- | |||
| ''x1'' ''number'' cu'o ''x2'' || ''x1'' se pacna zi'o li ''number'' va'o ''x2'' | |||
|- | |||
| ''x1'' ''number'' va'e ''x2'' || ''x1'' se merli zi'o li ''number'' ''x2'' | |||
|} | |||
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=== General Section Notes === | |||
=== | |||
# The definition of '''me''' corresponds to the basic relation __''Among''__ as formalized in the book ''Plural Predication'' (Oxford University Press, 2006) by [http://thecollege.syr.edu/profiles/pages/mckay-thomas.html Thomas McKay], which also agrees with the definition as given in CLL. See [[gadri: an unofficial commentary from a logical point of view]] for a precise discussion on plural quantification and '''me'''. | |||
# The interpretation proposed for a ME-converted sumti with '''moi''' is an extension of the definition for n-moi as n-th. | # The interpretation proposed for a ME-converted sumti with '''moi''' is an extension of the definition for n-moi as n-th. | ||
# The second argument of '''mei''' is changed with respect to CLL, to make it more useful and more in line with the rest of the system. | |||
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== Poll == | |||
{{BPFK Section poll| {POLL(pollId=>49)}{POLL} }} | |||
[[Category:BPFK Sections including selma'o ME|N]] | |||
[[Category:BPFK Sections including selma'o MEhU|N]] | |||
[[Category:BPFK Sections including selma'o MOI|N]] |
Latest revision as of 23:30, 3 April 2020
- This page is imported from version 22 of the page BPFK Section: Numeric selbri from the lojban Tiki.
cmavo: me (ME)
Proposed Definition
Converts a sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure "x1 is/are among the referents of the sumti".
Proposed Tag
See Also
- {me'u}
- {mei}
- {moi}
- {gunma}
- {cmima}
Proposed Keywords
Usage Examples
- xu do djica lo nu do me mi'a
- "Do you want to be one of us?"
Notes
Issues
cmavo: me'u (MEhU)
Proposed Definition
Terminator for ME.
Proposed Tag
See Also
- {me}
Proposed Keywords
- terminator
Usage Examples
- to lo me zo ku me'u pe di'u cu jai seldji vau li'a sai .u'i toi
- (The 'ku' of the previous sentence was intentional indeed lol)
Notes
Issues
cmavo: moi (MOI)
Proposed Definition
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is "x1 is/are the [number]th among x2 by rule x3". More generally, for any sumti the place structure is "x1 is/are the one(s) among x2 that correspond(s) to [number/lerfu/sumti] by rule x3".
Proposed Tag
See also
- {me}
- {mei}
- {si'e}
- {cu'o}
- {va'e}
Proposed Keywords
Usage Examples
- ma xamoi le te minde i xamoi le te minde fa lo nu na catra
- "Which is the sixth commandment? The sixth commandment is, Thou shalt not kill."
- ju'i do'u do tolcliva le ba'e romoi be le papri be la internet i a'o do pu zanfri lo nu catlu i caku ko tolcikygau le do skami gi'e barkla gi'e kelci
- "Attention: You have reached the very last page of the Internet. We hope you have enjoyed your browsing. Now turn off your computer and go outside and play."
- la cerni tarci cu romoi lo tarci poi ka'e se viska pu lo nu co'a donri
- "The morning star is the last star that's visible before the dawning of the day."
- le mi dinju cu da'apamoi le zunle
- "My building is the one before last on the left hand side."
- le ro relselxi'u cu mitsi'umlu i ta'i ma da djuno lo du'u makau me do moi
- "All the bicycles looked alike. How could you tell which one was yours!"
- ta me mi moi
- "That's mine."
Notes
Issues
klaku: The moi3 is not very well defined. Is it a process by which to order? In that case, describing the process will lead to a very long sumti, which is not practical. I suggest that it is a {ka}, so that lo moi is ordered such that those with most of the property are before those with less of the property. Thus, "second in shortness" is {remoi fi loka tordu}, rather than something involving a description of an elobate process.
cmavo: mei (MOI)
Proposed Definition
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is "x1 are [number] in number and are among x2". In general for any sumti the place structure is "x1 is/are among x2, quantified by [number/lerfu/sumti]".
Proposed Tag
See Also
- {me}
- {moi}
- {si'e}
- {cu'o}
- {va'e}
Proposed Keywords
Usage Examples
- ko drisla lo nuntolji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'i mei .i ku'i ko geisla lo nunji'a ki'u lo nu ri so'u mei
- "Mourn the losses because they are many but celebrate the victories because they are few."
Notes
Issues
klaku: The definitions for this cmavo are many and contradicting. CLL states 3 or four te sumti, this page's definition 2, and valsi/vlasisku states 3 te sumti. Also, it is not clear what mei3 is supposed to be. I suggest the other definitions be changed to match this one, with only 2 te sumti.
cmavo: si'e (MOI)
Proposed Definition
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit. The place structure in the case of a number is "x1 is/are a [number]th of x2". In general for any sumti the place structure is "x1 is a part/fraction of x2, quantified by [number/lerfu/sumti]".
Proposed Tag
See Also
- {me}
- {mei}
- {moi}
- {cu'o}
- {va'e}
Proposed Keywords
Usage Examples
- lo so'i tadni cu zabna se ctuca lo gubni ckule .i ku'i lo go'i cu mo'a si'e lo ro mei
- "Many students get a first-rate education in the public schools, but they represent too small a fraction of the whole."
Notes
Issues
cmavo: cu'o (MOI)
Proposed Definition
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure is "x1 has an expectation/probability [number/lerfu/sumti] under conditions x2".
Proposed Tag
See Also
- {me}
- {mei}
- {moi}
- {si'e}
- {va'e}
Proposed Keywords
Usage Examples
- la'e di'u cu mu no ce'i cu'o
- "That has a fifty percent chance of happening."
Notes
Issues
cmavo: va'e (MOI)
Proposed Definition
Converts a number, lerfu-string or ME-converted sumti into a tanru-unit with place structure "x1 has value [number/lerfu/sumti] on scale x2".
Proposed Tag
See Also
- {me}
- {moi}
- {mei}
- {si'e}
- {cu'o}
Proposed Keywords
Usage Examples
- ui lo mi prosa cu .abu va'e
- "Yay! My essay was graded with an 'A'."
Notes
Issues
Issues
The CLL has:
- lei ratcu poi zvati le panka cu so'umei lo'i ratcu
- The-mass-of rats which are-in the park are a-fewsome with-respect-to the-set-of rats.
- The rats in the park are a small number of all the rats there are.
Which I don't think fits with mei as we use it at all; either the definition here or the CLL needs changing.
Formal definitions
MOI | |
x1 number moi x2 x3 | x1 me x2 gi'e lidne da'a number me x2 x3 |
x1 number mei x2 | x1 me x2 gi'e klani li number lo se gradu be x2 |
x1 number si'e x2 | x1 pagbu x2 gi'e klani li number lo se gradu be x2 |
x1 number cu'o x2 | x1 se pacna zi'o li number va'o x2 |
x1 number va'e x2 | x1 se merli zi'o li number x2 |
General Section Notes
- The definition of me corresponds to the basic relation __Among__ as formalized in the book Plural Predication (Oxford University Press, 2006) by Thomas McKay, which also agrees with the definition as given in CLL. See gadri: an unofficial commentary from a logical point of view for a precise discussion on plural quantification and me.
- The interpretation proposed for a ME-converted sumti with moi is an extension of the definition for n-moi as n-th.
- The second argument of mei is changed with respect to CLL, to make it more useful and more in line with the rest of the system.