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''In popular literary acceptation, and as employed in special dictionaries of such words, synonyms are words sufficiently alike in general signification to be liable to be confounded, but yet so different in special definition as to require to be distinguished.'' --G. P. Marsh.
* '''naku le broda cu brode''' -- what's the deal with na being terminated with ku?  ku, as far as I understand, is meant to terminate sumti, which apparently na isn't. --mi'e [[User:tsali|tsali]]


----
''ku'' terminates floating tenses, such as ''puku''. ''naku'' is an extension of this.


It would be nice to provide each of the gismu clusters below with an advice on good usage
''ku'' has four functions in Lojban:


----
#terminates a LA/LE description (but not LA+name)


'''se papri | cukta | se tcidu | datni'''
#terminates a ''quantifier+selbri'' description (semantically equivalent to ''quantifier LO selbri'')


[http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/9717  recent proposal] by [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]]: ''se papri < cukta < se tcidu < datni''
#terminates a free-floating sumti tcita or FA (the last is mostly useful in answers to ''fi'a'' questions)


The proposal is retracted, but the fine semantics of these gismu is obviously something that should be made explicit ''(and probably has been :-( : [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9402/msg00081.html])''
#terminates a free-floating negation (this use is '''not''' elidable)
 
*Is a blank notebook a ''cukta'', a ''se tcidu'' or a ''datni''?
*Is a pictures only book a ''se tcidu'' or a ''datni''?
 
*Is a text of random words a ''datni''?
 
----
 
'''klama | muvdu | litru'''
 
''klama'' has all the places of ''muvdu'' plus x5 for vehicle, hence ''klama < muvdu''.
 
''litru'' lacks places for destination and origin, hence ''klama < litru'' '''surely this should be the other way around? mi'e filip.'''
 
----
 
'''nelci | se pluka | prami| se dirba'''
 
''prami'' differs from others in greater degree of emotional attachment. By the way, is there any difference between ''prami'' and ''se dirba''?
 
''se pluka'', compared to ''nelci'', has the place x3 'under conditions'. is there any reasonable way to make it work?
 
*there is also ''melbi'' which is similar to ''pluka''. We need to do more thorough work on this cluster --najrut
 
----
 
'''drata | frica'''
 
roda rode zo'u le du'u da de frica cu nibli le du'u da de drata
 
ijeku'i le du'u da de drata na nibli le du'u da de frica
 
i mu'a ''lo djacu dirgo na frica lo drata''
 
''drata'' = 'another' (not the same one), opposite to ''mintu''
 
''frica'' = 'different' (not of the same kind), opposite to ''dunli''
 
see [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/1954
 
----
 
'''mintu] | dunli'''
 
''mintu'' = same, identical, opposite to ''drata''
 
''dunli'' = of the same kind, opposite to ''frica''
 
----
 
'''pikta | jaspu'''
 
Are the following ''pikta'' or ''jaspu'' (or neither):
 
* foreign passport
* driver's licence
 
* a university's diploma
* marriage certificate
 
* credit card
* ''other borderline examples?''
 
----
 
'''molki | fanri'''
 
The gismu definition list says: '''molki'', unlike ''fanri'', need not produce a product'. However, even the prototypical grain mill for ''molki'' can be argued to produce flour from grain. Maybe ''molki'' puts more stress on processing/treatment rather than producing something radically different. But where does the border lie?
 
Are the following ''molki'' or ''fanri'' (or neither):
 
* grain mill
* foundry
 
* oil station
* hairdresser's saloon
 
* tattoo studio
* tailor's workshop
 
* ''other borderline examples?''
 
----
 
botpi = se gacri
 
----
 
=== Some general gismu are needless as they can be replaced with other gismu or lujvo. Which will simplify the language and it's learning. ===
 
** xe klama >  marce
** pluta    >  ve klama
 
** nixli    >  fetyve'a
** nakla    >  nakyve'a
 
** mensi    >  fetytunba
** bruna    >  naktunba
 
** ninmu    >  fetre'a
** nanmu    >  nakre'a
 
** tixnu    >  fetpanzi
** bersa    >  nakpanzi
 
** mamta    >  fetrirni (logical but really not smart replacement). See also [http://www.lojban.org/publications/draft-textbook/lesson13 esson] for an explanation of the difference between fetsi rorci, se jbena and fetsi rirni.
** patfu  > nakrirni (logical but really not smart replacement) --najrut
 
===  Other ===
 
cilre tadni ctuca
 
bacru tavla casnu cusku skicu
 
cpacu lebna te dunda=terdu'a
 
frati spuda
 
notci pinka xatra
 
zgana catlu viska
 
karce marce carce
 
gasnu rinka bapli zukte
 
mokca jipno
 
flecu rirxe
 
djuno krici fatci
 
krefu rapli
 
mukti krinu nibli rinka
 
simla simsu '''should this be ''simlu simsa''? mi'e filip'''
 
sanmi cidja se citka
 
dertu terdi gugde tutra tumla
 
tricu mudri
 
pagbu spisa
 
palta palne
 
sraku guska katna
 
grasu matne
 
ganse sanji
 
ratni kantu selci
 
jdari tinsa sligu ranti ralci
 
parbi frinu
 
cenba galfi stika
 
curve jinsa
 
tabno kolme
 
bancu ragve sepli  (se ragve=te sepli?)
 
ckana matci kicne
 
dargu klaji
 
zbasu finti
 
xamgu zabna
 
xlali palci ?mabla
 
zbepi tsina ?matci ?ckana
 
cabra minji tutci
 
jivbu nivji
 
burna cfipu ?xanka ?badri
 
badri dunku
 
xanka burna
 
manci spaji jenca
 
fanza raktu cfipu ?xanka
 
rigni xebni
 
cnano fadni kampu
 
bandu snura
 
bebna fenki cizra
 
nupre kajde
 
stidi friti
 
kucli | se cinri
 
xajmi zdile
 
zungi xenru
 
pikci cpedu
 
vecnu ve jdima = veldi'a
 
pruce te cupra = terpra
 
damba jamna
 
turni | se tutra
 
xabju | se zdani
 
ckini srana

Latest revision as of 08:37, 30 June 2014

  • naku le broda cu brode -- what's the deal with na being terminated with ku? ku, as far as I understand, is meant to terminate sumti, which apparently na isn't. --mi'e tsali

ku terminates floating tenses, such as puku. naku is an extension of this.

ku has four functions in Lojban:

  1. terminates a LA/LE description (but not LA+name)
  1. terminates a quantifier+selbri description (semantically equivalent to quantifier LO selbri)
  1. terminates a free-floating sumti tcita or FA (the last is mostly useful in answers to fi'a questions)
  1. terminates a free-floating negation (this use is not elidable)
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