resurrected gismu

From Lojban
Jump to: navigation, search

Archaic gismu

By John Cowan[1]:

In his rafsi report, la lojbab mentions that brivla was once ridvla. I thought I would give some other examples of archaic Lojban that actually saw the light of day in JL.

Disclaimer: Of course, none of these is good Lojban today. In the case of old lujvo, a different meaning (fairy-word for ridvla) would be assumed. In addition, the cmavo have only become stable much more recently, so archaic cmavo usages are not listed here.

  • JL4:33 (glossary, s.v. primitive) has gicmu for gismu. Oddly, lojbab tells me this was the correct word generated by the 6-language algorithm, but erroneously changed during manual transcription.
  • JL5:4 (glossary) has minmi for cmene. This was changed before baselining to get a better rafsi.
  • JL5:4 also contains ridvla for brivla and na'evla for le'avla. na'e is now the rafsi for natfe = deny.
  • JL5:24 uses culgo, which was the Lojban equivalent of Loglan gotso = go. Further analysis showed that go and come differ only in the speaker's point of view, so culgo was eliminated.
  • JL5:31 (news) refers to la lojbangirz. as la lojbangrup.. Apparently, girzu was once grupV with some unknown vowel.

Not a whopping list of archaisms (English puts Lojban to shame here) but showing that our project, or even the post-1988 part of it that bears the name Lojban, is not entirely devoid of history.

More archaic gismu

By John Cowan[2]:

Here are some more examples of archaic Lojban gismu. These represent gismu that were deleted for one reason or another (usually for insufficient generality) before the Lojban gismu list was baselined. I indicate the gismu selected by the algorithms plus the English keyword, sometimes with compatibility comments.

gadnu advertisement
vanci bathe conflicts with vanci = evening, replaced by "self wash"
birda billiards too specific, probable le'avla
butci boot redundant to cutci = shoe
guknu bow
bitri brick replaced by lujvo "ceramic block"
brece brooch redundant to se jadni = adornment
kabri cabaret conflicts with kabri = cup, also too specific
bikni cake incorporated into tapla = tile
rasto chromosome too specific, probable le'avla
signa cigarette redundant to sigja = cigar or lujvo using it
kanta complain redundant to xusra = assert
didni deduce replaced by lujvo using logji = logic
jiksa excite conflicts with jikca = socialize
flani flame conflicts with flani = flute, redundant to fagri = fire
firca flirt replaced by lujvo "sexual play"?
kenxo hole redundant to kevna = cavity
nusna induction who knows what "induction" is?
ditcu lasts/duration replaced by temci = time and renvi = survive
drica mattress replaced by "sleep mat"
gumri mushroom shape is "umbrella shape", fungus is "fungus fruit"
bladu obstacle/block redundant to zunti = interfere
pilda pale redundant to kandi = dim
parji parasite civla = louse, mledi = mold/fungus
sicpi precipitate redundant to carvi = rain
cletu set of redundant to se cmima (set/members), girzu (set/property)
stipa stick redundant to grana = rod
tenma tent replaced by lujvo using zdani = house
jutca theater replaced by "drama house"
tadnu tradition redundant to ritli = ritual, conflicts with tadni = study
jetru trot represented by x4 place of bajra (gait)
canre vibrate redundant to slilu = oscillate, conflicts with canre = sand
ctira wire redundant to cilta = thread

Discussion

So that's where all those gismu went that you thought it strange that Lojban didn't have.

  • birda = billiards: x1 plays billiards with x2
    • Plastic Raven:
      • Even in a worldwide sense, is billiards really that culturally important?
  • didni = deduce: x1 deduces that x2 is true about x3 from general rule x4
  • ditcu = duration: x1 is the time-duration/interval/period/[elapsed time] of event x2 (cf. cacra, cedra, citsi, ranji, tcika, junla, renvi, temci, canlu)
  • firca = flirt: x1 flirts with x2 by doing x3
  • gumri = mushroom: x1 is a mushroom of species x2
    • The reason Lojbab regrets the loss of this is because it is wonderful for referring to things of mushroom shape, and now there is no easy way to do so.
    • Also because using mledi for edible fungi squicks him, thanks to its unfortunate keyword "mold".
    • phma:
      • ledgrute to me means the fruiting body of any fungus, whether mushroom or bread mold stalks or whatever. Let's bring back gumri.
        • Well, mledi grute is any fruiting body of a fungus (among other things). The whole point of a lujvo is that you pick one particular meaning and make that the only one that the lujvo means. "Mushroom" is a more useful meaning (apparently) than "fruiting body of a fungus," so it seems quite reasonable to declare that the meaning of the lujvo ledgrute.
    • The trouble with gumri is that it purports to specify a kind of fungus by its shape, but mushrooms come in many shapes (the prototypical shape being an Agaricus, I suppose). Puffballs in their edible state, e.g., are spherical.
      • Arbitrarily limiting a lujvo to what seems to be useful seems to me incredibly malglico. Ideally, the point of lujvo is to pick one gismu deep structure and make that what the lujvo means (in which case ledgrute means grute lo mledi and includes non-mushrooms).
      • It has the risk of being malglico, but it's not intrinsically so. In fact, usefulness is the only sane criterion for picking a gismu deep structure out of the candidates in the first place.
        • Okay, but it's not a sane criterion for limiting ledgrute to mushroom-shaped fruiting bodies of fungi as opposed to all fruiting bodies of fungi.
    • Jay
      • Quick everyone! Blacken your home page and put "I Support gumri" into your .sigs! :)
  • nusna = induction: x1 induces x2 about x3 from specific facts x4
  • parji = parasite: x1 is a parasite/parasitic on x2 (not necessarily alive)
    • Plastic Raven:
      • If x2 (or x1; it isn't totally clear; this is part of why we have Lojban) isn't necessarily alive, how can x1, by definition, be a parasite? Or is this just for metaphorical usage?
  • pilda = pale: x1 is pale
    • This one has actually been used in a poem[3].
  • sicpi = rain: x1 is a quantity/expanse of rain (liquid precipitation) (cf. bratu, carvi, dilnu, santa, snime, tcima, bisli, bumru)
    • bratu, snime, and sicpi can all carvi
      • Yes, but so can djacu. Is sicpi simply djacu je carvi?
        • Actually, it's something like jaclitki je carvi, but this is the specific word for a common item. bratu is simply bisli je carvi also.

References