Dialectal variations

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List of dialectal variations

officially adopted by the LLG after CLL v1.0

  • Dotside
  • Xorlo ( [1] )


Officially adopted by the BPFK/LFK but not yet reviewed by the LLG

  • Change of the role of the tagged sumti for VA and ZA: instead of tagging a location, these now tag a measure of distance.
  • It was decided that ZAhO cmavo as prepositions tag a sumti which indicates when the ZAhO-ing of the event takes place, so that {za'o ko'a broda} = {ca ko'a za'o broda}. ( [2] )
  • Ban of glides/semivowels right after a consonant: [3]
  • [lo nu broda] (cu) ba brode ( [4] )
  • The BPFK had a vote on banning {broda be TAG brode}, making the addition of {ku} (or {zo'e}) after {be TAG} obligatory in this environment; a majority voted in favor of the ban, but the result of the vote was never officialized by the BPFK. ( [5] )


Unknown status of officialness

  • GA-termsets (e.g. "ge mi do gi do mi (cu) broda")
  • -yr- hyphens in fu'ivla with classifier prefix (e.g. allowing "cirlyrbri" in addition to "cirlrbri")
    • ※ Probably unofficial.
  • Camgusmis had used their benevolent dictator powers to redefine by fiat {zabna} and {mabla} to synchronize them with how people had been using them.


Stances on underspecified/unresolved/disputed grammar points

  • {ni}:
    • numeric ni (li xo'e ni…)
    • property ni (zmadu fi lo ni…)
  • {si'e}
    • [6]
    • ※ The CLL example 18.88 supports the stance that "one third" is "fi'u ci si'e" and not "ci si'e", unlike what the English definition of {si'e} ("x1 is an (n)th portion of mass x2") seems to imply.
  • "internal grammar of X"
    • internal grammar of quantifiers
    • internal grammar of free modifiers
  • scope scope scope
    • Q KOhA poi ...
    • BAI po'o/ji'a
    • da'i
    • .au/.ei/etc. together with other freemods
    • scopal interaction between multiple batches of {fa'u}'s.
  • backcounting edge cases
    • ua nai
      • e.g. {lo broda lo brode ku coi ri do'u noi coi ri co'e}
  • {kau} ※ See [7]
    • non-question sumsni + kau:
  • {jei}
    • numeric jei (li no du lojei lo jitfa cu jetnu)
    • indirect q. jei (mi na djuno lojei lo nundumu cu fasnu)※ This would be preferred.
      • [8]
      • (to simsa fa zo xau'a toi)
  • na'o vs ta'e?
  • zmadu3, traji4 and other amount abstraction slots:
    • they may be understood as either (1) plain unary properties, or as (2) binary relation or ce'u-makau "property".
    • both of these two interpreations would be functional but with different upsides and downsides, and they are mutually incompatible. See [9] for a more detailed discussion of the subject.


Unofficial semantic changes seeing at least some usage

※ It is particularly difficult to assess how widely adopted these changes are, because they do not affect the formal syntax.

in cmavo

  • The CLL allowed ce'u-less {ka} abstractions (i.e. {ce'u} is not even elided, for example {le ka mi sipna}), but modern dialects seem to have banished such usages. Instead, {lo ka sipna} is interpreted as having an implicit {ce'u} in the x1 slot of {sipna}, the implicit value is not {zo'e} there.
  • regularization of the scope of NA ( [10] )
  • removal of existential import for {ro}
  • plural {me} and {jo'u}
    • ※ Plural {me} seems to be implicitly implied by Xorlo. It is only a minor extension of the meaning of {me} as per the CLL (don't trust the ma'oste definition of {me}, it's completely wrong).
  • replacements of set slots with plural slots in {mei} and {moi}
  • non-singular pronouns such as {mi'o} are considered as Xorlo plural constants and no longer as CLL-masses.
  • possible hijacking of {va'o} for use as a conditional (at least the definition of {vanbi} implies that {va'o} wasn't originally meant to be a conditional).
  • {ka'e} has been used as meaning {cumki} instead of {kakne}.
  • upon a controversial BPFK proposal of Xorxes, {.e'e}'s meaning is changed from ``feel competence`` to ``exhort / incite / motivate / encourage / entreat / stimulate / challenge / dare / provoke / invite competition``. Many people started using it with that new meaning, but a significant share of Lojbanists has stuck with the older meaning, creating a difficultly reconciliable split in usage.
  • {.e'i} has similarly been proposed by the BPFK to mean ``command / dictate / instruct / order / oblige / constrain / impose an obligation`` instead of the former ``feeling constraint``.
  • A whole slate of attitudinals (namely the {.e'V} series, {.ei}, {.au}, {.ai}, {.ia} and {.a'o}) have been moved to the category of "irrealis attitudinals", which act as moods by removing assertion of the clause they appear in.
  • removal of the quality of "observation sentence" from selbrivla-initial sentences; observation sentences may instead be indicated with the particle {za'au}.
    • Guskant strongly opposed such a removal, although it wasn't asked to her whether an alternative marking with {za'au} (which didn't exist at that time) would be acceptable to her. See for details: [11] (BPFK thread).
    • As for the arguments in favor for the removal: some verbs like {cumki} are handier when put first in the sentence and their usually complex argument (typically a whole clause) is put after it, which avoids the need for terminators; however in CLL Lojban {cumki fa lo du'u…} would be an observation sentence. Furthermore, there exists some nullary predicates (e.g. {tanjelavi}) and it's not clear how it would be possible to use these non-observationally in CLL Lojban.
  • use of {kau} on non-question sumsni as a focus marker: this usage has arisen from a misinterpretation of the CLL example 11.53. In CLL Lojban, «mi djuno lo du'u do kau djuno» is equivalent to «mi djuno lo du'u ma kau no'u do djuno», which is not the same thing as linguistic newsworthiness focus, which could be rendered as «mi djuno lo du'u doipre fa le djuno».
  • plural quantification ( [12] )
  • (i.e. ro ← ro'oi, su'o ← su'oi, etc.)
    • Do we embrace plural or singular logic ?
    • [Ntsékees] Xorlo is sitting on the fence between the two.
  • In the idiolects of several prominent IRC Lojbanists of the 2015-2017 period, {lo} had shifted in meaning from Xorlo-{lo} to a definite article, equivalent in meaning to {lo'au} or something similar.
  • Ban of implicit quantification on dV variable, i.e. saying {da broda} as a shorthand of {su'o da broda}. Such shorthand has several issues (if you mistakenly use implicit quantification when {dV} was already bound, it will fail to be rebound and the sentence will get an unexpected meaning; also when you see {dV poi} you must first resolve whether {dV} is already bound or not before knowing whether {poi} acts as a domain restricter or as a referent filter.
  • donkey-da: under this change, {da} alone doesn't bear an implicit {su'o} when first occuring in a brisni; in that case, it becomes a donkey anaphora targeting the same referent as the previous occurrence of {da} (even if in a previous sentence). An explicit {su'o} attached to {da} becomes necessary for explicit quantification rebinding {da} (as opposed to reusing an older {da} as a donkey pronoun).
  • Me, Ilmen/Ntsékees, have been consistently using mass cmavo (loi, joi…) and {gunma} as referring to mereological sums and not as CLL-masses; CLL-masses allow contradictions (``ordinary logical reasoning is not applicable: contradictions can be maintained``, CLL §6.3), which I find inacceptable.

in gismu

  • replacement of set slots with Xorlo plural slots for most brivla, except those primarily concerned with the concept of set, such as {cmima}. Hence, CLL-Lojban {lo'i tadni cu simxu le ka ce'u viska ce'u} becomes {lo tadni cu simxu lo ka ce'u viska ce'u}.
  • removal of mutce4
  • removal of traji3, traji ← traii ※ This is more frowned upon than some other deletions of places, because it triggers a shift of indices for the following slots. However it makes the definition of {traji} more in line with the definition of -rai lujvo.
  • removal of xruti1, xruti ← xruii / .ixru ※ This is more frowned upon than some other deletions of places, because it triggers a shift of indices for the following slots.
  • See also for more: [13]


Unofficial morphological changes

  • The morphological comma is no longer in use in the speech of most people nowadays.
  • Marking stress with acute or grave accents has grown more common than the official method based on capitalization of the stressed syllable.
  • fu'ivla rafsi with -'y- hyphens.
  • allowing -mz-.


Unofficial syntactic changes (involving existing selmaho) seeing at least some usage

  • Some written punctuation can be seen, most often parentheses and quote marks.
  • CU as a bridi-tail initiator instead of a bridi-head terminator, which allows {sei broda cu brode} to be grammatical.
  • JACU ( [14] )
    • [Ntsékees] I however now disagree that JOI (non-logical connectives) should have the same syntax as logical connectives, since they can only operate on sumti and not whole bridi. However CLL Lojban already allows stuff like {.i joi} and {joi gi BRIDI gi BRIDI}, which I'd rather forbid.
    • JACU is highly backwards-compatible but yet not 100% so; an example of backwards-incompatibility is {me lu broda ko'a ja brode}. Without JACU, this parses as a tanru-unit connection between {me lu broda ko'a (li'u me'u)} and {brode}, whereas with JACU it parses as a bridi-tail connection between {broda ko'a} and {brode}. {broda be lonu/zo'enoi brode do je brodo} are other situations where backward-incompatibilities arise.
  • GIJA and VAUJA were previous alternative systems which JACU has now supplanted.
    • VAUJA still works under JACU, and permits some other connective reforms that conflict with JACU
  • gaJA, guJA ( [15] )
    • JAGI, guskant's GIJA
  • NAI ∈ indicator (allowing "broda nai")
  • tag simplification
    • I have found {se ru'u} useful, and yet the official grammar forbids adding {se} to {ru'u}.
    • FEhE, MOhI => NAhE, and multiple NAhE on TAG
  • mex simplification
  • bare mex (e.g. "mi viska pa su'i pa mlatu")
    • Lojban: [1 cat] + [1 cat] = what.
  • term-ja-term (e.g. "ba ku je pu ku")
  • NAhE SUMTI
  • Cmevla-brivla merger (CBM)
  • KE-termsets (KE + one or more terms + KEhE construction, possibly connected with JA)
  • JA.I
    • ※ {vy'y JA} is an alternative to JA.I; also {ju'ei} is an alternative to {je.i}.
  • enhanced VUhO
  • LAhE+term (i.e. allowing "tu'a na ku")
  • NUhA+operator
  • NAhU ∈ jek
  • standalone SA which doesn't take the next word as a complement and always erase the one preceding sentence.
  • xornunsep (number and lerfu_string split)


Cmavo replacements

※ there was a theory that these are "swaps" but in practice they mostly go one way so they're really just making synonyms, the longer words still also see plenty of usage as their old meanings and almost no usage replacing the shorter ones, in practice it's necessary to make new forms for the shorter cmavo if you want to recover their meanings

  • tcekitaujau:
    • ce'u → ce
    • ke'a → ki
    • (alternatively) ke'a → ki → ki'i → ∅
      • .i'e
    • tu'a → tau
    • du'u → du → dubdu'i
    • su'oi → su ※ .i'esai
    • jo'u → jau ※ less common
    • jo'u → joi
    • ko'oi → koi
    • lo'e → loi
    • [16]
      • [Zearen] This has many, many proposals, but AFAICT, see very little use.
  • new-soi:
    • so'oi → soi
      • ma smuni zo so'oi
      • {do jinga so'oi mi ke'a gleki [se'u]} ~ {do jinga .i mi gleki lo su'u do jinga}
  • new-voi:
    • poi'i → voi
  • jboponei:
    • po ... nei = lo su’u ... ku
    • po = xu'u
    • nei = ku'au
    • ko pilno lo’u« poi se ponse »le’u tau lo laldo smuni be zo po
    • Use «zi'e» as old nei since «je GOI/POI» under la jacus makes this redundant, and so'a pilno be la jboponei cu pilno la .jacus. ji'a
  • NOIhA swaps:
    • pai/nau/sau
    • pau/nau/sau (pai moved to a longer unassigned spelling, pau moved to pai)
    • pu'a/nu'a/cu'a
    • pau'a/nau'a (poi'o'a/noi'o'a)
  • gadganzu ( [17] ):
    • le'i ← ti'oi
    • le'e ≈ ri'oi
    • le ← ?
      • fi'o morji mi, simsa lo'u« lo bi'unai »le'u
    • lo ← le ja lo'e
    • loi ← le ja lo'e gunma be su'o… (?)
    • lo'i ← nei'i ~ loi'a


New cmavo added to existing selmaho

  • UI: ko'oi, si'au, bi'a, zi'a, o'ai, xe'e, xo'o, .a'oi, mi'au, fu'au, ju'oi, xa'a, va'oi, za'au, moi'i, vei'i, jei'u, ri'ai, je'au, ne'au, .oi'o, ue'i, uu'i, ie'i, au'u, xa'i, xu'o, ky'u
  • CAI: mau'i, na'oi
  • COI: di'ai, jo'au, co'oi, da'oi, ki'ai, tai'i, sa'ei, ci'oi, fau'u
  • NAI: ja'ai
  • BAhE: ci'a
    • controversial: ba'ei ※ It is labelled as belonging to BAhEI.
  • FIhO: noi'a, poi'a, soi'a
  • BY: a'y, e'y, i'y, o'y, u'y, iy, uy
    • za'a zo iy je zo uy cu vajni tau la zbalermorna
  • FA: fai'i
  • BAI/TAG: bi'ai, xa'o, xo'u, fi'oi, xau, ka'ai, te'i, mu'ai
    • .i ma cmene lo selma'o poi du ma'oi
      • ki'a
  • GOhA: ku'ai'i
  • KOhA: xai, zu'ai, mi'ai, nau'u, zoi'i, do'ei, vau'V, da'au, sy'y
  • LE: me'ei, mo'oi, ri'oi, ti'oi, lo'au, dau'u, nei'i, loi'a, kai'i, xai'i, zy'oi
  • LAhE: zo'ei, du'au, lu'au
  • LA: la'ei
  • SE: to'ai, vo'ai, xo'ai
  • NAhE: na'ei, je'ai, gu'y
  • JAI: jo'ai
  • ME: me'au, du'ai
  • NU: poi'i, kai'u
  • JOI: ce'oi
  • PA: xo'e, su'oi, ro'oi, ru'oi, xy'au, zy'ei, by'ai, sy'au, ny'ei, py'ai…
  • ZOhU: ce'ai
  • ZO: ma'oi, la'oi
  • LU: la'au
  • MAI: ju'ai
  • MOI: va'e
  • ROI: mu'ei, va'ei
  • KE: pi'ai, va'au
  • XI: te'ai
  • SI: ze'ei
  • I: fa'oi

(See [18] for more.)

Unofficial new selmaho

  • LOhAI—SAhAI—LEhAI
  • ZOhOI: zo'oi, ra'oi
  • MEhOI
  • TOIhE
  • IAU: iau, .i'au
  • GOhOI: go'oi, ta'ai
  • JIhOI: ji'oi, ni'oi ※ terminator: te'u
    • As there's currently no equivalent for sumti-connection or forethought connection, JIhOI is typically used together with the JACU, gaJA and guJA syntax changes.
  • KAUhU
  • JAUhU
  • LOhOI—KUhAU: lo'oi, xu'u, xau'a, mau'a, ko'ai, fo'ai, koi'i, foi'i, pu'ei, ca'ei, ba'ei
  • NOhOI—KUhOI: po'oi, no'oi
    • la'a na nitcu va'o tu'a lo'u« broda poi »le'u noi se pilno la zantufa mu'a
      • la .guskant. pu xusra su'o simsa be la'e di'u .i ku'i mi se cfipu .i pe'i lo nu pu pilno zo po'oi jo'u zo no'oi ma kau cu jai smufrica tu'a lo nu pilno lo'u lo broda poi le'u ma kau .i ku'i .i'a ma'oi no'oi co'u zasti .i na cafne fa lo nu pilno
      • to mupli tu'a zo no'oi fa lu .oi mi ca'o ba'u zei cusku no'oi mi na'o xebni lo'e ckaji be ke'a li'u toi
      • zo po'oi plixau tu'a zo bu'a lu'u ra'u
  • NOIhOhA: noi'o'a, poi'o'a
  • DOhOI
  • ZOhAU
  • VYhY
  • KYhOI—KUhAU: ky'oi, fy'oi
  • JUhEI ※ see JA.I
  • XOI: xoi, so'oi
  • BAhEI
  • JAIhA
    • pei da'i ma'oi jai co'a tarti lo me ma'oi jai'a moi (to mu'a la zantufa zo'u xa'o da'i nai co'e toi)
  • CUhAU
    • .u'i


Current alternate grammars

  • zantufa
  • ilmentufa (exp, beta, beta-cbm, beta-cbm-ckt…)
  • spagetufa
  • fanzatufa ( [19] )
  • sotyge'a ( [20] )


Experimental gismu

  • New ones we most certainly will adopt:
    • laldo (lal)
      • (reassignment of -lal- from lanli)
    • kanpe
    • kibro (kib)
    • ditcu (dit)
    • proga (pog)
    • darca/tsuku
    • fegli
    • menre
    • vedli
    • spero
    • gumri
    • xrotu (xro)
    • krali?
    • mango
    • korvo
    • celdi (cle) - x1 is in a relationship with x2, x3, ...
    • zgadi
    • fanbu ( [21] )
  • what to do about synonyms:
    • skuna/cusku
    • lojbo/jbobo
  • what about reassignments ?
    • dukse - x1 is too much in property x2 (ka/ni) by standard x3
    • banzu - x1 is sufficiently x2 (ka/ni) for purposes x3 (nu/pu'u/ka), under conditions x4
      • in my dialect this is {banzuka}/{raunzu}, and {banzu} has the meaning of {banzunu}
    • traji - What's the alternate definition ?
      • old x3 removed: x1 is the most x2 (ka) among x3
    • simlu = setese simlu - x1 seems to x2 to satisfy x3 (ka) under condition x4
    • cinse - x1 exihibits sexual attraction to x2 in behavior/aspect (ka/nu) x3 by standard x4
    • prane - add "by standard x3"
    • bandu - x1 protects x2 (object/event) from threat/peril x3 (nu)
      • Then the old bandu is faurbandu