zipcpi: Yet another gadri article: Difference between revisions

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H: '''coi .i xu do nelci le draci''' "Hi. Did you like the play? (that you just watched)"<br>
H: '''coi .i xu do nelci le draci''' "Hi. Did you like the play? (that you just watched)"<br>
W: '''na'e uinai''' "No. *sadness*"
W: '''na'e uinai''' "No. *sadness*"
==PA / le'e==
(PA refers to any number, including indeterminate ones like '''so'i''')
Introductive determiner. '''pa broda''' = one '''broda''' that I am introducing into the discourse.
'''mi viska pa prenu''' "I see a person."


==lo==
==lo==
Descriptive determiner. '''lo broda''' = something(s) that '''broda'''s. Can mean either '''le''' or '''lo'e''' depending on context. '''lo''' is pretty much "never wrong", but '''le''' and '''lo'e''' can be used when definiteness is important.
Descriptive determiner. '''lo broda''' = something(s) that '''broda'''s. Can mean '''PA''', '''le''' or '''lo'e''' depending on context. '''lo''' is pretty much "never wrong", but '''PA''', '''le''' and '''lo'e''' can be used when definiteness is important.


'''mi djica lo nu do penmi lo prenu''' = "I want you to meet someone."
'''mi djica lo nu do penmi lo prenu''' = "I want you to meet someone."

Revision as of 14:00, 4 June 2015

Where there are two gadri separated by a slash, the first one refers to the objects treated as individuals, and the second one refers to objects treated as a mass.

la / lai

Name determiner. la broda = the one(s) named "Broda". The definition of broda is irrelevant; what matters is what the speakers have agreed to name or address as broda.

le'i / lei'i

Demonstrative determiner. le'i broda = "this/that broda(s)". Indicates that the speaker is signaling a particular broda(s) to the listener. Roughly equivalent to ti noi broda or ta noi broda, but does not imply spatial distance or presence, and is often grammatically more convenient as it doesn't start a new sub-bridi.

ko tcidu le'i cukta "Read this/that book."

If spatial distance is important, use vi/va/vu, e.g. le'i vu cmana = "that mountain way over there"

le / lei

Deixis determiner. le broda = the broda(s) that are identifiable or knowable. Often used to refer to either something mentioned earlier, or to something present in the shared context of the speakers.

For example, if a wife returns home after watching a play, she might have this conversation with her husband:
W: coi "Hello."
H: coi .i xu do nelci le draci "Hi. Did you like the play? (that you just watched)"
W: na'e uinai "No. *sadness*"

PA / le'e

(PA refers to any number, including indeterminate ones like so'i)

Introductive determiner. pa broda = one broda that I am introducing into the discourse.

mi viska pa prenu "I see a person."

lo

Descriptive determiner. lo broda = something(s) that brodas. Can mean PA, le or lo'e depending on context. lo is pretty much "never wrong", but PA, le and lo'e can be used when definiteness is important.

mi djica lo nu do penmi lo prenu = "I want you to meet someone." Compare with:

mi djica lo nu do penmi le prenu = "I want you to meet that person (a/some particular person[s])."
mi djica lo nu do penmi lo'e prenu = I want you to meet people (in general; I don't care who you meet)."

Has no mass variant. Use lei or loi instead if masses are desired.

lo'e / loi

Generalizing determiner. lo'e broda = brodas in general, without referring to any broda in particular.

Continuing the previous conversation of the wife who watched the play:
H: ue .i xunai do nelci lo'e draci "Eh? Don't you like plays? (plays in general)"
W: je'a "Yes (I do like plays; xunai only makes the question rhetorically negative, and does not change the expected answer)"
H: je'e "OK. (Understood / Roger)"

Note that this differs from xu do nelci ro draci "Do you like all plays?", which is most probably false. Even the biggest fan of plays would probably hate some plays; in fact, they may hate it all the more because of their appreciation of plays in general!

lo'i / loi'i

Essentialistic determiner. lo'i broda = the essentialistic/Platonic model of broda. The truth value of the sentence would depend on the definition of broda; what constitutes "broda-ness", regardless of the actual status of things that broda.

xu lo'i remna cu danlu = "Are humans animals? / Is animality a part of humanity?" (true, as Lojban danlu does not imply non-personhood like English "animal" might.)

xu ro remna cu se tuple lo remei = "Do all humans have two legs?" (False; some have certainly lost their legs, or were not born with them.)
xu lo'i remna cu se tuple lo remei = "Is humanity characterized by having two legs?" (Probably true however; since for most people, their defining model of a "human" will have two legs.)

xu ro remna cu mroka'e = "Are all humans mortal?" (True; compare with the next sentence)
xu lo'i remna cu mroka'e = "Is mortality a part of humanity?" (a very interesting question indeed; you might get very different answers depending if you asked a transhumanist, a priest, or a nihilist!)

Note that this makes xu do nelci lo'i draci "Is (you liking it) a part of (being-a-play-ness)?" a pretty ridiculous question; plays aren't characterized by whether the wife likes it or not!