semantical equivalences: Difference between revisions

From Lojban
Jump to navigation Jump to search
mNo edit summary
 
m (Text replace - "jbocre: " to "")
 
(5 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:


* Period
I think a list like this has been started somewhere on the wiki, but I couldn't find it. I only give a few categories and a few examples. Some of these are "official", others semantically obvious and unavoidable, others may be more controversial. Here goes (--[[.greg.|greg.]]):
** The period is used as ''me'o denpa bu'' and as ''me'o pi''. It is not used for ending sentences, since most sentences begin with ''.i'', which begins with a period.


* Comma
== eks ==
** The comma is used as ''me'o slaka bu'' and sometimes between words. The Flatland translation uses a comma where three terminators have been elided. (''Was this done automatically by a parser, or did the translator figure out where this comma would be used? It seems like a difficult criterion to apply. Where can the Flatland translation be found?'') Some people use a semicolon for this.Note that if you write a comma between words and a ''denpa'' is needed, you must write the period also. Omitting the period, but putting the comma, means that the words are run together in pronunciation.Another possible use is as the equivalent of the hyphen which is written when the end of a line falls in the middle of a word.


* Semicolon
ko'a V ko'e broda == ko'a broda ijV ko'e broda
** See comma.


* Question mark
*What happens if I use bound variables? do I use one prenex with scope cmavo or do I repeat the same prenex twice?
** Used at the end of a bridi question, or on the question word.
**Only one prenex. A better way to put it is ''gV ko'a broda gi ko'e broda''. The prenex remains in front of everything. --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]


* Quotation marks
== jeks ==
** Used with ''lu" ... "li'u'', ''lo'u" ... "le'u'', and ''zoi gy" ... "gy''. Pronounced as a ''denpa''.


* Hyphen
*I'm not sure about these, there may be some tanru problems, I don't know what happens to other sumti (x2, x3 etc).
** One possible use is to mark abbreviations, e.g. ''ta kg- li 43''. Another possible use is to mark that the end of a line is in the middle of a word.


* Parentheses
ko'e broda jV brode == ko'e broda ijV ko'e brode
** Used with ''(to ... toi)''.
 
* [[The book|The book]] says expansion of tanru jek-connectives doesn't always work.  The example given is "la .alis. cu blanu je zdani prenu" != "la .alis. cu blanu prenu .ije la .alis. cu zdani prenu", when the interpretation of the tanru is that alice is a person who lives in houses which are blue (though it seems the "je" would likely be left out in that case anyway).
 
== gadri ==
 
lo broda cu brode == da poi broda zo'u da brode
 
le broda goi ko'a e ko'e cu brode == le pamoi broda goi ko'a cu brode ije le remoi broda goi ko'e cu brode
 
*This last one is useful for determining whether you want ''le broda'' or ''lei broda''
 
== na ==
 
da na broda == naku da zo'u da broda
 
da pu na broda == da na pu broda
 
== noda ==
 
noda broda == noda zo'u da broda == naku da zo'u da broda
 
== tense negation (with PU or FAhA) ==
 
da punai broda == da na pu broda == naku da zo'u da pu broda
 
== zi'o ==
 
ko'e zilPAVbroda == ko'e broda FA zi'o
 
ko'e broda da .ija ko'e broda noda == ko'e broda zi'o
 
*This is wrong. The left hand side is a tautology (always true). The right hand side can be true or false depending on the circumstances. --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]
 
ko'e broda zi'o ije ko'e broda noda == ko'e broda na'ebo da
 
*I'd like to know whether this last one makes any sense. I see zi'o as meaning the second to last : "ko'e broda [[something maybe|something maybe]]". I want to be able to say "ko'e broda [[definately nothing|definately nothing]]" while still claiming "ko'e broda zi'o".
**If ''ko'e broda noda'' is true, it can't be true that ''ko'e broda na'eboda''. "Other than something" is just another something. You can say ''ko'e broda zi'o e noda'', just one more syllable. --[[User:xorxes|xorxes]]
 
***But if "something" is unconstrained, we run out of da ...

Latest revision as of 16:19, 23 March 2014

I think a list like this has been started somewhere on the wiki, but I couldn't find it. I only give a few categories and a few examples. Some of these are "official", others semantically obvious and unavoidable, others may be more controversial. Here goes (--greg.):

eks

ko'a V ko'e broda == ko'a broda ijV ko'e broda

  • What happens if I use bound variables? do I use one prenex with scope cmavo or do I repeat the same prenex twice?
    • Only one prenex. A better way to put it is gV ko'a broda gi ko'e broda. The prenex remains in front of everything. --xorxes

jeks

  • I'm not sure about these, there may be some tanru problems, I don't know what happens to other sumti (x2, x3 etc).

ko'e broda jV brode == ko'e broda ijV ko'e brode

  • The book says expansion of tanru jek-connectives doesn't always work. The example given is "la .alis. cu blanu je zdani prenu" != "la .alis. cu blanu prenu .ije la .alis. cu zdani prenu", when the interpretation of the tanru is that alice is a person who lives in houses which are blue (though it seems the "je" would likely be left out in that case anyway).

gadri

lo broda cu brode == da poi broda zo'u da brode

le broda goi ko'a e ko'e cu brode == le pamoi broda goi ko'a cu brode ije le remoi broda goi ko'e cu brode

  • This last one is useful for determining whether you want le broda or lei broda

na

da na broda == naku da zo'u da broda

da pu na broda == da na pu broda

noda

noda broda == noda zo'u da broda == naku da zo'u da broda

tense negation (with PU or FAhA)

da punai broda == da na pu broda == naku da zo'u da pu broda

zi'o

ko'e zilPAVbroda == ko'e broda FA zi'o

ko'e broda da .ija ko'e broda noda == ko'e broda zi'o

  • This is wrong. The left hand side is a tautology (always true). The right hand side can be true or false depending on the circumstances. --xorxes

ko'e broda zi'o ije ko'e broda noda == ko'e broda na'ebo da

  • I'd like to know whether this last one makes any sense. I see zi'o as meaning the second to last : "ko'e broda something maybe". I want to be able to say "ko'e broda definately nothing" while still claiming "ko'e broda zi'o".
    • If ko'e broda noda is true, it can't be true that ko'e broda na'eboda. "Other than something" is just another something. You can say ko'e broda zi'o e noda, just one more syllable. --xorxes
      • But if "something" is unconstrained, we run out of da ...