mi ca xusra noda: Difference between revisions

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mi finti lo dei valsi ca lo nu mi tcidu [[jbocre: la nicte cadzu|la nicte cadzu]]
'''<- [[saying nothing|saying nothing]]'''


* {jvsv peisku} - has thought
.i mi ca xusra noda was recently sighted [[xei here|xei here]]
* {jvsv badgau} - defender / to defend


* {jvsv tolrinsa} - to goodbye?
* Eh, yes, but there is such a thing as Universe of Discourse :-) -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]], who said it
* {jvsv blupinxe} - vampire
** So what was it meant to say, if not nothing? - [[.kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.]], the one who has never been to Australia


* {jvsv nerklaji} - hallway
*** Nothing out of the things pertinent. This doesn't excuse it, btw; but it does mean that, when you say ''mi cusku roda'', you don't mean you're speaking whales, or negative numbers.
* {jvsv dakyxa'i} - dagger
**** You should though. If you really want ''everything'' to mean just the things you're thinking of, you have ''le romei'' and ''le ro da''. -- [[Adam|Adam]]


* {jvsv cladakyxa'i} - sword
***** The 'Universe of Discourse' approach is advocated in the Book, and honestly, it's far more useful to have ''mi cusku roda'' not include whales and negative numbers. I'm cool with that assumption being defeasible, of course. -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]
* {jvsv rajyserti} - ladder
****** But in ''mi cusku roda'', ''mi'' is a sumti. Does ''mi cusku roda'' imply that ''mi cusku mi''? If not, how do you exclude ''mi'' from your universe of discourse and still refer to it?


* {jvsv oxtapodi} - octopus
**** So what was your message when you said it? I agree that ".i mi djuno noda" should mean you know nothing about what is being said, but if you have nothing to assert on the topic what does it mean to say so in Lojban? Personally I feel that if you mean ''no comment'' that should be ".i nei mu'o" as ''no comment'' in English means "no comment other than this one," but I'm not entirely sure if that was what you meant. - la [[.kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.]], who still thinks of [[sralo ustralia|sralo ustralia]] as the largest "anglo-saxon island"
* {jvsv cmibi'o} - join
**** You're right on what I said, and like I said, I was wrong to say it... kinda. But it's wrong to say "mi xusra noda" is intrinsically paradoxical (as is implied by listing it here), because the default interpretation of what ''da'' can refer to is contextual. -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]


* {jvsv remsmimi'i} - automaton
***** But then we are suddenly discussing your assertions, and the fact that you assert it is within the new universe of discourse, right?
* {jvsv rapcreze'a} - practice
***** I don't follow. Are you saying it's still paradoxical, then, because ''da'' must refer to all my current assertions, as opposed to all my current relevant assertions?


* {jvsv nurfu'i} - backup
****** Once you say ''.i mi ca xusra noda'' we are discussing whether you are asserting, not just Australia. So, you are asserting something that is now within the universe of discourse. If it wasn't meant to be paradoxical, try ''.i ma na xusra tu'a di'u'' - I am asserting nothing about your comment. But if you think about it, if you really have nothing to say and have not been asked a direct question, you have no reason to say ''.i mi ca xusra noda'' unless you intend it to carry some assertive value and thus be paradoxical. Also, listing it under [[saying nothing|saying nothing]] means I think of it as a way to say nothing, or at least say you aren't. It could also go on a page of [[About Lojban paradoxes|lojban paradoxes]], but there isn't one yet. - [[.kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.]], who also hasn't been to England or any other anglo-saxon island
* {jvsv dabytadji} - martial art
 
* {jvsv ja'urxe'a} - beak
* {jvsv ruxse'i} - soul
 
* {jvsv xairgau} - injurer / to injure
* {jvsv tu'urbirka} - tentacle
 
* {jvsv spogau} - destroyer / to destroy
* {jvsv celgunta} - shoot
 
* {jvsv faurtei} - has duration
* {jvsv xumjimcelxa'i} - gun
 
Unformatted stuff what needs fixing:
 
==  le valsi ==
 
===  le cmene ===
 
*la fekcrida - demon
*la daspo fekcrida - bad demons
 
*la sepli fekcrida - good demons
 
===  le brivla ===
 
* {jvsv lardai} - piece of art
**d1 is a piece of art created by process l1 which is an art [[jbocre: creative application|creative application]] of craft/skill l2 (idea/activity)
 
* {jvsv velji'i} - evidence
* {jvsv tacsa'e} - lick
 
**tance satre
**s1 = t2 (agent) licks / strokes / rubs s2 with tounge s3 = t1;x3 useful only for things with more than one tongue
 
**x1 satre x2 x3 gi'e se tance x3 .i je x3 srana da po'o poi ponse su'o re tance
* {jvsv tatyji'o} - nipple
 
**see gi'uste tatru
**tatru jipno
 
* {jvsv sakcpu} - suck (agentive)
**see gi'uste sakci
 
**sakci lacpu
* {jvsv cindji} - lust
 
**cinse djica
**d1 = c1 lusts for / sexually desires activity / state d2 = c2 for purpose d3 thereby exhibiting sexuality / gender / sexual orientation c3 (ka) by standard c4;x3 is usually "lo nu se pluka / tolcortu" or similar
 
**x1 x2 djica x3 gi'e cinse x4 x5 .i x3 so'e roi mintu lo nu se pluka ja tolcortu kei .a lo simsa
* {jvsv tolcortu} - pleasure
 
* {jvsv ralcinfra} - orgasm
**ralju ke cinse frati
 
**f1 = c1 has an orgasm in response to stimulus f3 under conditions f4, thereby exhibiting sexuality / gender / sexual orientation c3 (ka) by standard c4;f2, c2 and all places of ralju lost to the concept of orgasm
**x1 lo ralju be lo cinse se frati bei lo ka pluka be'o frati x2 x3 gi'e cinse x4 x5
 
* UNUSED - baisludesku - convulsion
**Muscle d1 = s1 convulses / siezes / cramps / involuntarily moves in response to force / event d2 = b1 affecting bodily function s2 in body s3; x4 has a seizure in muscle x1
 
**x1 desku x2 poi bapli kei gi'e sluji x3 x4
* {jvsv tupyjanco} - hip
 
* {jvsv bargau} - leave; go outside of
* {jvsv slupli} - exercise
 
* {jvsv jesydi'u} - tower
**jesni dinju
 
**d1 = j1 is a tower / needle shaped building for purpose d2 made of material(s) j2
**x1 dinju be x2 co jesni x3
 
* {jvsv tabykrili} - diamond
**tabno krili
 
**t1 = k1 is a quantity of / contains / is made of diamond / crystalline carbon in form/arrangement k3;k2 subsumed (is carbon)
**x1 krili lo tabno po'o x2
 
* {jvsv ka'orze'a} - heal
**kanro + zenba
 
**z1=k1 (experiencer) heals / increases in health by amount z3 by health stabdard k2; z2 dropped; z3 could be used to describe a completed aspect of healing
**x1 zenba fi x2 fe lo ka ce'u kanro x3
 
* {jvsv rejgau} - record, agentive
* {jvsv desygau} - shake/wave (agentive)
 
* {jvsv purlamke'u} - previous time
* {jvsv tolcro} - pleasure
 
* {jvsv tolcanci} - appear
* {jvsv tengau} - stretch (agentive)
 
**g1 stretches t1;g1 causes t1 to stretch / extend to range t2 [[jbocre: interval/extent]] in dimension t3 from relaxed range t4
**x1 gasnu lo nu x2 tcena x3 x4 x5
 
* {jvsv brabra} - massive, giant
* {jvsv pofgau} - break (functional)
 
* {jvsv popygau} - break (physical)
* {jvsv jivgau} - convince
 
**jinvi gasnu
**g1 convinxes / causes j1 to think / opine j2 [[jbocre: opinion|opinion]] (du'u) is true about subject/issue j3 on grounds j4: x5 is often something like "because x1 said so"
 
**x1 gasnu lo nu x2 jinvi x3 x4 x5 .i x5 pi so'i roi simsa lo du'u x1 catni cusku
* {jvsv xukmrmodafinili} - Modafinil
 
**x1 is a quantity of the drug Modafinil
* {jvsv sligau} - wave / wag
 
**slilu gasnu
**g1 wags / waves causes s1 to oscillate at rate/frequency s2 through set/sequence-of-states s3 (complete specification)
 
**x1 gasnu lo nu x2 slilu x3 x4
* {jvsv jdegau} - warn
 
**From gismu list kajde
**g1 warns / cautions k2 (person) of / about danger k3
 
**loses k1; check that
* {jvsv zgagau} - point out
 
**zgana gasnu
**g1 points out / indicates to observer z1 object / event z2 observable using senses/means z3 under conditions z4; g1 causes z1 to notice z2
 
**x1 gasnu lo nu x2 zgana x3 x4 x5
* {jvsv gapmla} - above
 
* {jvsv cuxyvra} - switch
**cuxna vraga
 
**v1 = c1 is a switch / toggle for choosing from set/sequence of alternatives v2 = c3, with fulcrum v3 and arm v4 with current selection c2 [[jbocre: choice|choice]]
**x1 cuxna vraga lo nu cuxna fi x2 kei x3 x4 fi'o ca se  cuxna x5
 
*BAH! - pavypa'a - expect -- we coined {jvsv kanpe} instead
**pa pacna
 
**x1 expects / predicts / event x2 with a subjectively expected likelihood at or near 1.0; x1 is certain / near certain that event x2 will occur
**x1 pacna x2 li ji'i pa
 
* {jvsv peisku} - has thought
**x1 thinks x2
 
**Defined in jbovlaste.
* {jvsv badgau} - defender
 
**x1 causes event x2 which defends ...
**Defined in jbovlaste.
 
* {jvsv tolrinsa} - offers goodbyes
**Defined in jbovlaste.
 
* {jvsv blupinxe} - vampire
**Defined in jbovlaste.
 
* {jvsv nerklaji} - hallway
**x1 klaji x2 x3 gi'e nenri x2
 
**Defined in jbovlaste.
* {jvsv dakyxa'i} - dagger
 
**Defined in jbovlaste.
* {jvsv cladakyxa'i} - sword
 
**x1 xarci x2 x3 gi'e dakfu x2 x4 gi'e clani fi x5
**Defined in jbovlaste.
 
* {jvsv rajyserti} - ladder
**Defined in jbovlaste.
 
* {jvsv oxtapodi} - octopus
**Defined in jbovlaste.
 
* {jvsv cmibi'o} - join
**cmima binxo
 
**x1 binxo lo cmima be x2 x3
**b1=c1 becomes a member of group b2=c2 under conditions b3
 
* {jvsv remsmimi'i} - automaton
**remna simsa minji
 
**x1 cu minji x2 gi'e xadni simsa lo remna
**m1 = r1 = s1 is an automaton / mostly unintelligent android / humanoid machine for purpose m2 (s2 is "lo remna")
 
* {jvsv rapcreze'a} - practice
**rapli certu zenba
 
**z1 = c1 (experiencer) increases in skill / expertise at z2 = c2 by amount z3 by means of repeating action r1 r2 times
**x1 zenba lo ka ke'a certu x2 vau x3 se zu'e lo nu x4 rapli x5
 
* {jvsv nurfu'i} - backup
**snura fukpi
 
**f1  is a backup / danger avoiding duplicate / copy of f2 = s1 in form / medium f3 made by method f4 to protect / secure against event s2 (generally destruction or loss)
**x1 fukpi x2 x3 x4 te zu'e lo nu x2 snura x5 to x5 so'e roi daspo gi'a nu cirko toi
 
* {jvsv dabytadji} - martial art
**damba tadji
 
**t1 is a fighting technique / martial art used under conditions t3 by d1 (specific opponent and issue not usually relevant to technique)
**x1 tadji lo nu damba kei x2 gau x3 poi ke'a damba to lo se damba .e lo te damba cu so'a roi na srana lo tadji toi
 
* {jvsv ja'urxe'a} - beak
**jgalu xedja
 
**j1 = x1 is a / the beak / talon-like jaw (body part) of j2 = x2
**x1 jgalu je xedja x2
 
* {jvsv ruxse'i} - soul
**See pruxi entry.
 
**p1 = s1 is the soul / spiritual self of s2
**x1 pruxi gi'e sevzi x2
 
* {jvsv xairgau} - injurer
**g1 causes event x1 which injures / harms / damages victim x2 in property x3 (ka) resulting in injury x4 (state)
 
**x1 gasnu x2 poi ke'a xrani x3 x4 x5
* {jvsv tu'urbirka} - tentacle
 
**b1 = t1 is a tentacle / tube-shaped arm <nowiki>[body-part]</nowiki> of b2 (t2, t3 obvious from b2; generally skin and blood / flesh
**x1 birka x2 gi'e tubnu da poi mapti x2 gi'e so'e roi skina vau de poi mapti x2 gi'e so'e roi ciblu ja rectu
 
* {jvsv spogau} - destroyer
**g1 destroys, using /through event d1, object / person d2
 
**x1 gasnu lo nu x2 daspo x3
* {jvsv celgunta} - shoot
 
**g1 (person/mass) shoots victim g2 with goal /objective g3 using launcher / gun c1 which launches /fires /shoots projectile/missile c2, propelled by c3 [[jbocre: propellant /propulsion]]
**x1 gunta x2 x3 se pi'o x4 poi ke'a cecla x5 x6
 
* {jvsv faurtei} - has duration
**f1 is an event that has time / temporal duration t1 ranging  from starting time / event t2 to ending time / event t3
 
**x1 fasnu ca x2 poi ke'a temci x3 x4
* {jvsv xumjimcelxa'i} - gun
 
**xukmi jinme cecla xarci
**x1= c1 is a gun / chemically launched metal sluq throwing weapon for use against x2 by x3: weapon fires metallic objects x4 using chemical propellant x5
 
**x1 poi xarci x2 x3 cu cecla x4 poi jinme ra'u vau x5 poi xukmi ra'u

Latest revision as of 16:27, 23 March 2014

<- saying nothing

.i mi ca xusra noda was recently sighted xei here

  • Eh, yes, but there is such a thing as Universe of Discourse :-) -- nitcion, who said it
    • So what was it meant to say, if not nothing? - .kreig.daniyl., the one who has never been to Australia
      • Nothing out of the things pertinent. This doesn't excuse it, btw; but it does mean that, when you say mi cusku roda, you don't mean you're speaking whales, or negative numbers.
        • You should though. If you really want everything to mean just the things you're thinking of, you have le romei and le ro da. -- Adam
          • The 'Universe of Discourse' approach is advocated in the Book, and honestly, it's far more useful to have mi cusku roda not include whales and negative numbers. I'm cool with that assumption being defeasible, of course. -- nitcion
            • But in mi cusku roda, mi is a sumti. Does mi cusku roda imply that mi cusku mi? If not, how do you exclude mi from your universe of discourse and still refer to it?
        • So what was your message when you said it? I agree that ".i mi djuno noda" should mean you know nothing about what is being said, but if you have nothing to assert on the topic what does it mean to say so in Lojban? Personally I feel that if you mean no comment that should be ".i nei mu'o" as no comment in English means "no comment other than this one," but I'm not entirely sure if that was what you meant. - la .kreig.daniyl., who still thinks of sralo ustralia as the largest "anglo-saxon island"
        • You're right on what I said, and like I said, I was wrong to say it... kinda. But it's wrong to say "mi xusra noda" is intrinsically paradoxical (as is implied by listing it here), because the default interpretation of what da can refer to is contextual. -- nitcion
          • But then we are suddenly discussing your assertions, and the fact that you assert it is within the new universe of discourse, right?
          • I don't follow. Are you saying it's still paradoxical, then, because da must refer to all my current assertions, as opposed to all my current relevant assertions?
            • Once you say .i mi ca xusra noda we are discussing whether you are asserting, not just Australia. So, you are asserting something that is now within the universe of discourse. If it wasn't meant to be paradoxical, try .i ma na xusra tu'a di'u - I am asserting nothing about your comment. But if you think about it, if you really have nothing to say and have not been asked a direct question, you have no reason to say .i mi ca xusra noda unless you intend it to carry some assertive value and thus be paradoxical. Also, listing it under saying nothing means I think of it as a way to say nothing, or at least say you aren't. It could also go on a page of lojban paradoxes, but there isn't one yet. - .kreig.daniyl., who also hasn't been to England or any other anglo-saxon island
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