Difference between revisions of "long tanru"

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~pp~
+
'''This page was renamed from ''Some'' since that was a really bad name.'''
  
baljvi balji balvi
+
Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" [[Lojban style ojbanic style|Lojban style ojbanic style]] might include extremely long [[tanru|tanru]]? Perhaps it is [[malglico|malglico]], or in any case non-[[lobykai ojbanic|lobykai ojbanic]], to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced [[tanru|tanru]] on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic
  
bancru bacru bancu
+
and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a
  
bandzu bandu banzu
+
pre-declared direction. The existence and beauty of [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] hint and
  
banfli banfi banli
+
encourage us to take [[tanru|tanru]] in a direction that [[English|English]] doesn't want to.
  
banpli banli bapli
+
A tendency in this direction would address the [[Great Dictionary Problem|Great Dictionary Problem]],
  
banzgu bangu banzu
+
and give us some [[Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W|Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W]] effects by providing us with a new, rather poetic, dynamic skill. In [[English|English]] we pause for a moment and try to recall the One Right Word, whereas perhaps in Lojban we should pause for a moment and
  
bardja barda barja
+
construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking [[ke|ke]] and [[bo|bo]] might
  
barjda barda barja
+
be an easier skill then de-[[lujvo|lujvo]]-izing, recalling [[rafsi|rafsi]], and figuring out
  
barsna barna basna
+
the place structure of an unfamiliar [[lujvo|lujvo]].
  
bastci basti batci
+
Whatever the case may be, since this is a very un-Englishistic habit, I
  
bersna bersa besna
+
think I will try to develop it!
  
bertri berti betri
+
''Did I write the above? And why is this page titled "some"? --xod'' (Yes: but I think it would be better not to associate positions with individuals--though this is happening on the Wiki, alas-- so that their IDEAS could be evaluated without the sometimes personal acrimony incurred on ''le jboste''...)
  
birkla bikla birka
+
;:'''''.ienai'''.  The anonymity of Wiki drives me bats.  Avoidance of personal connotations (and thus acrimony) is one thing, but it's exasperating not to have '''some''' kind of identity linking these ideas together, so one can tell if the person who said '''X''' here is the same as the one who said '''Y''' there... and also just to be able to see how the give-and-take is going in a given discussion!  We can't even tell how many people there are, whether two supporting views are from the same person or different ones, etc.  (And I also don't know why this page is called "Some") --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]''
  
blacri blaci lacri
+
*It's called '''''some''''' because someone (I thought it was michael (''go'i''), but it could have been [[User:xod|la xod]]) on another page created by means of "[[some|some]] people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor [[Wiki-Building Technique|Wiki-Building Technique]] from a beginner. [[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]
  
blasna basna lasna
+
''I have always been lukewarm to [[lujvo|lujvo]] but prefer [[tanru|tanru]] (or neither, sometimes, going for the [[Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure|Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure]]).  Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e [[User:Mark Shoulson|.mark.]]'' -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti!  tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener.  I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.
  
blatci batci blaci
+
I don't mind claiming responsibility for this paragraph. I haven't found myself using stupendously long tanru though, I think they have been of reasonable length. --xod
  
bractu bratu ractu
+
I agree with the paragraph--for what it's worth, coming from a "newbie".
  
bradri badri bradi
+
But as was mentioned, on Wiki "ko'a goi le se jinvi cu zifre sepli le jinvi pe ko'a", which helps focus the work/play on the material.
  
brapli bapli rapli
+
--mi'e [[cein|cein]].
 
 
bratcu bratu ratcu
 
 
 
bridju bidju briju
 
 
 
brodai broda brodi
 
 
 
brodau broda brodu
 
 
 
brodei brode brodi
 
 
 
brodoi brodi brodo
 
 
 
cactra cacra catra
 
 
 
cancti canci canti
 
 
 
cangre cange canre
 
 
 
catcra cacra catra
 
 
 
caukla cakla cukla
 
 
 
cerdra cedra cerda
 
 
 
cfagri cfari fagri
 
 
 
cfasnu casnu fasnu
 
 
 
cfatri cfari fatri
 
 
 
cfigla cfila cigla
 
 
 
cfikla cfika cfila
 
 
 
cfiska cfika ciska
 
 
 
cfivla cfila civla
 
 
 
cigvla cigla civla
 
 
 
cikcna cicna cikna
 
 
 
ciktsi ciksi citsi
 
 
 
cilcre cilce cilre
 
 
 
cilkre cikre cilre
 
 
 
cinbla cinba cinla
 
 
 
cingla cigla cinla
 
 
 
cinkri cinki cinri
 
 
 
cinste cinse ciste
 
 
 
cintri cinri citri
 
 
 
cinvla cinla civla
 
 
 
cinzba cinba cinza
 
 
 
cirgla cigla cirla
 
 
 
cirvla cirla civla
 
 
 
citska ciska citka
 
 
 
citsri citri citsi
 
 
 
civgla cigla civla
 
 
 
ckasnu casnu ckasu
 
 
 
ckiblu ciblu ckilu
 
 
 
ckiklu ckiku ckilu
 
 
 
ckikre cikre ckire
 
 
 
cladru cladu ladru
 
 
 
cladzu cadzu cladu
 
 
 
clikra clika clira
 
 
 
clipra cipra clira
 
 
 
cliska ciska clika
 
 
 
cliste ciste clite
 
 
 
cliste ciste liste
 
 
 
cliste clite liste
 
 
 
clitce clite litce
 
 
 
clivla civla cliva
 
 
 
clivla civla livla
 
 
 
clivla cliva livla
 
 
 
clivra clira cliva
 
 
 
clupra clupa cupra
 
 
 
cmatci cmaci matci
 
 
 
cmatra catra matra
 
 
 
cmigla cigla cmila
 
 
 
cmimla cmila cmima
 
 
 
cmisma cisma cmima
 
 
 
cmivla civla cmila
 
 
 
cnecmu cecmu cnemu
 
 
 
cniska ciska cnisa
 
 
 
cnisma cisma cnisa
 
 
 
cnista cnisa cnita
 
 
 
cnitsa cnisa cnita
 
 
 
cpacna cpana pacna
 
 
 
cpagre cpare pagre
 
 
 
cpicna cicna cpina
 
 
 
cridja cidja crida
 
 
 
criska ciska crisa
 
 
 
crisma cisma crisa
 
 
 
crisna crisa risna
 
 
 
ctabra cabra tabra
 
 
 
ctatru ctaru tatru
 
 
 
ctumla cumla tumla
 
 
 
ctutci cutci tutci
 
 
 
cukmla cukla cumla
 
 
 
cumkla cukla cumla
 
 
 
damsri damri dasri
 
 
 
dancti dacti danti
 
 
 
danflu danfu danlu
 
 
 
danplu danlu daplu
 
 
 
dansfu danfu dansu
 
 
 
danslu danlu dansu
 
 
 
darglu dargu darlu
 
 
 
darplu daplu darlu
 
 
 
darski darsi daski
 
 
 
darsni darsi dasni
 
 
 
darsri darsi dasri
 
 
 
daskli dakli daski
 
 
 
daskri daski dasri
 
 
 
dasmri damri dasri
 
 
 
datsni dasni datni
 
 
 
dectri decti detri
 
 
 
dencmi denci denmi
 
 
 
dencti decti denci
 
 
 
dikcra dicra dikca
 
 
 
dilcnu dilcu dilnu
 
 
 
dinklo diklo dinko
 
 
 
djacru dacru djacu
 
 
 
djicla djica jicla
 
 
 
djicra dicra djica
 
 
 
dracli draci racli
 
 
 
dracni draci drani
 
 
 
dracti dacti draci
 
 
 
drasni dasni drani
 
 
 
dundra dunda dunra
 
 
 
dunjda dunda dunja
 
 
 
dzasni dasni zasni
 
 
 
falsnu falnu fasnu
 
 
 
famtci famti fatci
 
 
 
famtri famti fatri
 
 
 
fangri fagri fanri
 
 
 
fantri fanri fatri
 
 
 
fanzva fanva fanza
 
 
 
fatcki facki fatci
 
 
 
fatcri fatci fatri
 
 
 
femsti femti festi
 
 
 
femtsi femti fetsi
 
 
 
fersti ferti festi
 
 
 
fertsi ferti fetsi
 
 
 
festsi festi fetsi
 
 
 
fetsti festi fetsi
 
 
 
flibra fliba flira
 
 
 
fratci fatci frati
 
 
 
fratri fatri frati
 
 
 
gapcri gacri gapci
 
 
 
gausta gasta gusta
 
 
 
glacri gacri lacri
 
 
 
glusta gluta gusta
 
 
 
glutra gluta gutra
 
 
 
grasnu gasnu grasu
 
 
 
grusni grusi gusni
 
 
 
gunska gunka guska
 
 
 
gunsta gunta gusta
 
 
 
guntra gunta gutra
 
 
 
gursni gurni gusni
 
 
 
gustra gusta gutra
 
 
 
janbre jabre janbe
 
 
 
janspu jansu jaspu
 
 
 
jbadri badri jbari
 
 
 
jbakri bakri jbari
 
 
 
jbesna besna jbena
 
 
 
jdamri damri jdari
 
 
 
jdasri dasri jdari
 
 
 
jelcta jecta jelca
 
 
 
jencta jecta jenca
 
 
 
jersni jersi jesni
 
 
 
jgacri gacri jgari
 
 
 
jgadri gadri jgari
 
 
 
jgasnu gasnu jganu
 
 
 
jgisra jgira jisra
 
 
 
jgitra jgira jgita
 
 
 
jikcla jicla jikca
 
 
 
jilkra jilka jilra
 
 
 
jilsra jilra jisra
 
 
 
jimcla jicla jimca
 
 
 
jinkru jikru jinku
 
 
 
jinkru jikru jinru
 
 
 
jinkru jinku jinru
 
 
 
jinsra jinsa jisra
 
 
 
jintro jinto jitro
 
 
 
jmifra jmifa mifra
 
 
 
jundri judri jundi
 
 
 
jundri judri junri
 
 
 
jundri jundi junri
 
 
 
kalbri kabri kalri
 
 
 
kalcri kalci kalri
 
 
 
kanbla kanba kanla
 
 
 
kanctu kancu kantu
 
 
 
kanjdi kandi kanji
 
 
 
kansla kanla kansa
 
 
 
karbli karbi karli
 
 
 
karbri kabri karbi
 
 
 
kelcti kecti kelci
 
 
 
kensra kenra kensa
 
 
 
kilsto kilto kisto
 
 
 
klacma kacma klama
 
 
 
klitru kliru litru
 
 
 
kluspe klupe kuspe
 
 
 
korbli kobli korbi
 
 
 
krasti krasi krati
 
 
 
kratsi krasi krati
 
 
 
kricli krici krili
 
 
 
krujvi kruji kruvi
 
 
 
kumfra kufra kumfa
 
 
 
kunfra kufra kunra
 
 
 
kurfra kufra kurfa
 
 
 
laksne lakne lakse
 
 
 
lanbli lanbi lanli
 
 
 
lancli lanci lanli
 
 
 
lancri lacri lanci
 
 
 
larcpu lacpu larcu
 
 
 
latsna lasna latna
 
 
 
lifsri lifri lisri
 
 
 
linjdi lindi linji
 
 
 
linsri linsi lisri
 
 
 
lisfri lifri lisri
 
 
 
listce liste litce
 
 
 
livgla livga livla
 
 
 
lunsra lunra lunsa
 
 
 
maisno masno misno
 
 
 
makcnu macnu makcu
 
 
 
maksti maksi masti
 
 
 
malsti malsi masti
 
 
 
mamtra mamta matra
 
 
 
mancri manci manri
 
 
 
mancti manci manti
 
 
 
mansti manti masti
 
 
 
mantri manri manti
 
 
 
manxri manri maxri
 
 
 
mapsti mapti masti
 
 
 
maptci mapti matci
 
 
 
marjbi marbi marji
 
 
 
mastci masti matci
 
 
 
matcli matci matli
 
 
 
melbri mebri melbi
 
 
 
mensli menli mensi
 
 
 
mikpri mikri mipri
 
 
 
milxre milxe mixre
 
 
 
minfra mifra minra
 
 
 
mipkri mikri mipri
 
 
 
mitxre mitre mixre
 
 
 
mixtre mitre mixre
 
 
 
mlasna lasna mlana
 
 
 
mlastu lastu mlatu
 
 
 
mrupli mruli mupli
 
 
 
mukcti mucti mukti
 
 
 
nanbla nanba nanla
 
 
 
nancla nanca nanla
 
 
 
nilcte nicte nilce
 
 
 
noibli nibli nobli
 
 
 
pancpi panci panpi
 
 
 
pandzi pandi panzi
 
 
 
pankra panka panra
 
 
 
panpri panpi papri
 
 
 
panzdi pandi panzi
 
 
 
patflu patfu patlu
 
 
 
patxlu patlu patxu
 
 
 
pensmi penmi pensi
 
 
 
pikcti picti pikci
 
 
 
pincka pinca pinka
 
 
 
pincta pinca pinta
 
 
 
pinjdi pindi pinji
 
 
 
placna pacna plana
 
 
 
plasna lasna plana
 
 
 
plastu lastu pastu
 
 
 
plastu lastu platu
 
 
 
plastu pastu platu
 
 
 
plispe plipe plise
 
 
 
pliste liste plise
 
 
 
plixra pixra plixa
 
 
 
porspi porpi porsi
 
 
 
pracli prali racli
 
 
 
pramli prali prami
 
 
 
prapli prali rapli
 
 
 
prisna prina risna
 
 
 
racpli racli rapli
 
 
 
ractcu ractu ratcu
 
 
 
rakctu ractu raktu
 
 
 
raktcu raktu ratcu
 
 
 
ralcli racli ralci
 
 
 
ranjmi ranji ranmi
 
 
 
rapcli racli rapli
 
 
 
ratctu ractu ratcu
 
 
 
rinska rinka rinsa
 
 
 
rinsna rinsa risna
 
 
 
rircni rirci rirni
 
 
 
sackli sacki sakli
 
 
 
saiclu saclu siclu
 
 
 
sakcki sacki sakci
 
 
 
sakcli sakci sakli
 
 
 
saktci sakci satci
 
 
 
salcki sacki salci
 
 
 
saltci salci satci
 
 
 
samclu saclu samcu
 
 
 
samcpu samcu sampu
 
 
 
sanjmi sanji sanmi
 
 
 
sankli sakli sanli
 
 
 
sanmli sanli sanmi
 
 
 
sarclu saclu sarcu
 
 
 
sarclu saclu sarlu
 
 
 
sarclu sarcu sarlu
 
 
 
satcki sacki satci
 
 
 
seftca sefta setca
 
 
 
sencpi senci senpi
 
 
 
senpli senpi sepli
 
 
 
sfacki facki sacki
 
 
 
sfatci fatci satci
 
 
 
sicmlu siclu simlu
 
 
 
simclu siclu simlu
 
 
 
simxlu simlu simxu
 
 
 
skabri kabri skari
 
 
 
skacki sacki skaci
 
 
 
skacmi skaci skami
 
 
 
skacpi skaci skapi
 
 
 
skacri skaci skari
 
 
 
skamri skami skari
 
 
 
skapri skapi skari
 
 
 
skatci satci skaci
 
 
 
skiclu siclu skicu
 
 
 
slacri lacri slari
 
 
 
slamri slami slari
 
 
 
slasmi slami slasi
 
 
 
slasri slari slasi
 
 
 
sliclu siclu slilu
 
 
 
slifri lifri sliri
 
 
 
sliglu sligu slilu
 
 
 
slimlu simlu slilu
 
 
 
slisri lisri sliri
 
 
 
smaclu saclu smacu
 
 
 
smacnu macnu smacu
 
 
 
smadji smadi smaji
 
 
 
smajdi smadi smaji
 
 
 
smatci matci satci
 
 
 
smidju midju sidju
 
 
 
smucni smuci smuni
 
 
 
smucti mucti smuci
 
 
 
snidju sidju snidu
 
 
 
snimre nimre snime
 
 
 
snutra snura sutra
 
 
 
spakli sakli spali
 
 
 
spatci satci spati
 
 
 
spimlu pimlu simlu
 
 
 
spista spisa spita
 
 
 
spitsa spisa spita
 
 
 
srasku sraku srasu
 
 
 
stagli stagi stali
 
 
 
stakli sakli stali
 
 
 
stapla stapa tapla
 
 
 
staske saske taske
 
 
 
stasku staku stasu
 
 
 
statci satci stati
 
 
 
stebla steba stela
 
 
 
sticni sicni stici
 
 
 
stutra stura sutra
 
 
 
stutra stura tutra
 
 
 
stutra sutra tutra
 
 
 
suctra sucta sutra
 
 
 
sungla sunga sunla
 
 
 
tagdji tadji tagji
 
 
 
tamdji tadji tamji
 
 
 
tanjbo tanbo tanjo
 
 
 
tantru tanru tatru
 
 
 
tarcmi tarci tarmi
 
 
 
tarcti tarci tarti
 
 
 
tarpla tapla tarla
 
 
 
tartci tarci tarti
 
 
 
tarvla tarla tavla
 
 
 
tcabra cabra tabra
 
 
 
tcacti tcaci tcati
 
 
 
tcadzu cadzu tcadu
 
 
 
tcatci tcaci tcati
 
 
 
tcicka tcica tcika
 
 
 
tcicla tcica tcila
 
 
 
tcicma tcica tcima
 
 
 
tcicna cicna tcica
 
 
 
tcicta tcica tcita
 
 
 
tcigla cigla tcila
 
 
 
tcikla tcika tcila
 
 
 
tcimla tcila tcima
 
 
 
tciska ciska tcika
 
 
 
tcisma cisma tcima
 
 
 
tcitca tcica tcita
 
 
 
tcivla civla tcila
 
 
 
tcumla cumla tumla
 
 
 
tcutci cutci tutci
 
 
 
tinsna tinsa tisna
 
 
 
tirsna tirna tisna
 
 
 
tradji tadji traji
 
 
 
tricfu ricfu tricu
 
 
 
trisna risna tisna
 
 
 
trisna risna trina
 
 
 
trisna tisna trina
 
 
 
tsakli sakli tsali
 
 
 
tsapli tsali tsapi
 
 
 
tsaske saske taske
 
 
 
tsidju sidju tsiju
 
 
 
tsisna tisna tsina
 
 
 
tsutra sutra tutra
 
 
 
tuntra tunta tutra
 
 
 
vancri vacri vanci
 
 
 
vasxru vasru vasxu
 
 
 
vindru vidru vindu
 
 
 
vlacri lacri vacri
 
 
 
vritci vitci vrici
 
 
 
xagjmi xagji xajmi
 
 
 
xamsli xamsi xasli
 
 
 
xamtsi xamsi xatsi
 
 
 
xangri xagri xanri
 
 
 
xatsli xasli xatsi
 
 
 
xlasli xasli xlali
 
 
 
xlusra xlura xusra
 
 
 
xrispo xispo xriso
 
 
 
xrubla xruba xrula
 
 
 
zbasni zasni zbani
 
 
 
zbasti basti zasti
 
 
 
zdasni dasni zasni
 
 
 
zdasni dasni zdani
 
 
 
zdasni zasni zdani
 
 
 
zdivle zdile zivle
 
 
 
zmasti masti zasti
 
 
 
zuktse zukte zutse
 
 
 
zvasti zasti zvati
 
 
 
~/pp~
 

Latest revision as of 10:50, 8 June 2014

This page was renamed from Some since that was a really bad name.

Have I said yet that I suspect that "true" Lojban style ojbanic style might include extremely long tanru? Perhaps it is malglico, or in any case non-lobykai ojbanic, to desire small words with poignancy. Perhaps the spirit of Lojban is to achieve such shades of meaning not by relying on a huge, historical, subtle vocabulary, but by constructing detailed nuanced tanru on the spot. By "true" of course I mean trying to go where the internal logic

and flow of the language takes us, rather than trying to aim it in a

pre-declared direction. The existence and beauty of ke and bo hint and

encourage us to take tanru in a direction that English doesn't want to.

A tendency in this direction would address the Great Dictionary Problem,

and give us some Sapir-Whorf Hypothesis W effects by providing us with a new, rather poetic, dynamic skill. In English we pause for a moment and try to recall the One Right Word, whereas perhaps in Lojban we should pause for a moment and

construct a monstrous tanru with kes and bos. Unstacking ke and bo might

be an easier skill then de-lujvo-izing, recalling rafsi, and figuring out

the place structure of an unfamiliar lujvo.

Whatever the case may be, since this is a very un-Englishistic habit, I

think I will try to develop it!

Did I write the above? And why is this page titled "some"? --xod (Yes: but I think it would be better not to associate positions with individuals--though this is happening on the Wiki, alas-- so that their IDEAS could be evaluated without the sometimes personal acrimony incurred on le jboste...)

.ienai. The anonymity of Wiki drives me bats. Avoidance of personal connotations (and thus acrimony) is one thing, but it's exasperating not to have some kind of identity linking these ideas together, so one can tell if the person who said X here is the same as the one who said Y there... and also just to be able to see how the give-and-take is going in a given discussion! We can't even tell how many people there are, whether two supporting views are from the same person or different ones, etc. (And I also don't know why this page is called "Some") --mi'e .mark.
  • It's called some because someone (I thought it was michael (go'i), but it could have been la xod) on another page created by means of "some people say that" (not verbatim). IOW, just poor Wiki-Building Technique from a beginner. And Rosta

I have always been lukewarm to lujvo but prefer tanru (or neither, sometimes, going for the Gismu Deep Structure eep Gismu Structure). Tanru-heavy sounds good to me! --mi'e .mark. -- But I must qualify that, I think: long tanru I like, but not very long tanru at the expense of sumti! tanru are ambiguous, and using them to avoid the pain of actually working out where the sumti are supposed to go is sparing yourself at the cost of paining your listener. I'm talking about sentences that are one huge observative tanru.

I don't mind claiming responsibility for this paragraph. I haven't found myself using stupendously long tanru though, I think they have been of reasonable length. --xod

I agree with the paragraph--for what it's worth, coming from a "newbie".

But as was mentioned, on Wiki "ko'a goi le se jinvi cu zifre sepli le jinvi pe ko'a", which helps focus the work/play on the material.

--mi'e cein.