Lojban vs Loglan comparison: Difference between revisions
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For the Lojbanists interested in history: a grammatical comparison of Loglan vs. Lojban | |||
For the Lojbanists interested in history: a grammatical comparison of Loglan vs Lojban | |||
* terminology | * terminology | ||
** prim(itive) = [[gismu|gismu]] (see also [[gismu != primitives|gismu != primitives]]) | ** prim(itive) = [[gismu|gismu]] (see also [[gismu != primitives|gismu != primitives]]) | ||
** borrowing = [[fu'ivla|fu'ivla]] | ** borrowing = [[fu'ivla|fu'ivla]] | ||
** complex, CPX = [[lujvo|lujvo]] (hence pluja valsi) | ** complex, CPX = [[lujvo|lujvo]] (hence pluja valsi) | ||
** metaphor = [[tanru|tanru]] | ** metaphor = [[tanru|tanru]] | ||
** little word, LW = [[cmavo|cmavo]] (hence cmalu valsi!) | ** little word, LW = [[cmavo|cmavo]] (hence cmalu valsi!) | ||
** affix = [[rafsi|rafsi]] | ** affix = [[rafsi|rafsi]] | ||
** [[lexeme|lexeme]] = [[selma'o|selma'o]] (in the extended sense) | ** [[lexeme|lexeme]] = [[selma'o|selma'o]] (in the extended sense) | ||
** [[GMR|GMR]] (Great Morphological Revolution) = introduction of rafsi system into the language (pre-split) | ** [[GMR|GMR]] (Great Morphological Revolution) = introduction of rafsi system into the language (pre-split) | ||
* Phonetics/Orthography | * Phonetics/Orthography | ||
** Vowels | ** Vowels | ||
*** diphthongs are ai, ei, oi, ao (= Lojban au) | *** diphthongs are ai, ei, oi, ao (= Lojban au) | ||
*** optional diphthongs are iV, uV | *** optional diphthongs are iV, uV | ||
*** all other vowel pairs are pronounced with glides | *** all other vowel pairs are pronounced with glides | ||
*** no equivalent of ', so no contrast like ai/a'i | *** no equivalent of ', so no contrast like ai/a'i | ||
** Consonants | ** Consonants | ||
*** role of x is taken by h | *** role of x is taken by h | ||
*** Extra letters (used only in names, borrowings): | *** Extra letters (used only in names, borrowings): | ||
**** x, pronounced as in Lojban | **** x, pronounced as in Lojban | ||
**** q, IPA [ | **** q, IPA <nowiki>[T]</nowiki> = English unvoiced "th" | ||
**** w, IPA <nowiki>[y]</nowiki> = German �, French u | |||
**** w, IPA | |||
** Capitalization follows the pattern standard for the European languages: used in the beginning of a sentence and for proper names. Nonstandard stress is marked by an apostrophe preceding the stressed syllable. | ** Capitalization follows the pattern standard for the European languages: used in the beginning of a sentence and for proper names. Nonstandard stress is marked by an apostrophe preceding the stressed syllable. | ||
* Morphology | * Morphology | ||
** basically the same at time of split | ** basically the same at time of split | ||
** Loglan has added a new rule: in any lujvo beginning CVCC, where CC is a permissible initial, change to CVCyC. This eliminates the need for the slinku'i test (according to TLI) | ** Loglan has added a new rule: in any lujvo beginning CVCC, where CC is a permissible initial, change to CVCyC. This eliminates the need for the slinku'i test (according to TLI) | ||
* Vocabulary | * Vocabulary | ||
** Gismu | ** Gismu | ||
*** formed on the same principles | *** formed on the same principles | ||
*** very different in detail due to different weights (much more English-y) and presence of h instead of x | *** very different in detail due to different weights (much more English-y) and presence of h instead of x | ||
*** see also [[Borrowing from Loglan|Borrowing from Loglan]] | *** see also [[Borrowing from Loglan|Borrowing from Loglan]] | ||
*** see also [[The x2 place of blanu|The x2 place of blanu]] | *** see also [[The x2 place of blanu|The x2 place of blanu]] | ||
** Rafsi | ** Rafsi | ||
*** don't necessarily have just one of CVC, CCV, or CVV forms, but maximum is still three | *** don't necessarily have just one of CVC, CCV, or CVV forms, but maximum is still three | ||
** Fu'ivla | ** Fu'ivla | ||
*** often use h-clusters to "solve" morphological problems (e.g. ''athomi'' = x1 is an atom) | *** often use h-clusters to "solve" morphological problems (e.g. ''athomi'' = x1 is an atom) | ||
** Cmavo | ** Cmavo | ||
*** show various "sound law" changes, e.g. Loglan gu = Lojban ku (but much more general "universal" terminator), Loglan no = Lojban na, Loglan noi = Lojban nai, Loglan keks = Lojban geks, Loglan ceks = Lojban jeks. | *** show various "sound law" changes, e.g. Loglan gu = Lojban ku (but much more general "universal" terminator), Loglan no = Lojban na, Loglan noi = Lojban nai, Loglan keks = Lojban geks, Loglan ceks = Lojban jeks. | ||
* Grammar | * Grammar | ||
** masses/sets | ** masses/sets | ||
** abstraction | ** abstraction | ||
** modals | ** modals | ||
** tenses | ** tenses | ||
** relative clauses | ** relative clauses | ||
** Imperative | ** Imperative | ||
*** formed by omitting the x1 argument | *** formed by omitting the x1 argument | ||
** [[mekso|mekso]] | ** [[mekso|mekso]] | ||
** attitudinals | ** attitudinals | ||
** negation | ** negation | ||
** termsets | ** termsets | ||
** Vocatives: hoi instead of doi (as in "[http://www.loglan.org/Texts/vizka-la-spat.html rano, hoi Spat. I prano.]") | ** Vocatives: hoi instead of doi (as in "[http://www.loglan.org/Texts/vizka-la-spat.html rano, hoi Spat. I prano.]") | ||
** ??? what else | ** ??? what else | ||
* Usage/Style | * Usage/Style | ||
** [[ELG: Raising|sumti raising]] | |||
** [[ |
Revision as of 10:33, 12 May 2014
For the Lojbanists interested in history: a grammatical comparison of Loglan vs. Lojban
- terminology
- prim(itive) = gismu (see also gismu != primitives)
- borrowing = fu'ivla
- complex, CPX = lujvo (hence pluja valsi)
- metaphor = tanru
- little word, LW = cmavo (hence cmalu valsi!)
- affix = rafsi
- lexeme = selma'o (in the extended sense)
- GMR (Great Morphological Revolution) = introduction of rafsi system into the language (pre-split)
- Phonetics/Orthography
- Vowels
- diphthongs are ai, ei, oi, ao (= Lojban au)
- optional diphthongs are iV, uV
- all other vowel pairs are pronounced with glides
- no equivalent of ', so no contrast like ai/a'i
- Consonants
- role of x is taken by h
- Extra letters (used only in names, borrowings):
- x, pronounced as in Lojban
- q, IPA [T] = English unvoiced "th"
- w, IPA [y] = German �, French u
- Capitalization follows the pattern standard for the European languages: used in the beginning of a sentence and for proper names. Nonstandard stress is marked by an apostrophe preceding the stressed syllable.
- Vowels
- Morphology
- basically the same at time of split
- Loglan has added a new rule: in any lujvo beginning CVCC, where CC is a permissible initial, change to CVCyC. This eliminates the need for the slinku'i test (according to TLI)
- Vocabulary
- Gismu
- formed on the same principles
- very different in detail due to different weights (much more English-y) and presence of h instead of x
- see also Borrowing from Loglan
- see also The x2 place of blanu
- Rafsi
- don't necessarily have just one of CVC, CCV, or CVV forms, but maximum is still three
- Fu'ivla
- often use h-clusters to "solve" morphological problems (e.g. athomi = x1 is an atom)
- Cmavo
- show various "sound law" changes, e.g. Loglan gu = Lojban ku (but much more general "universal" terminator), Loglan no = Lojban na, Loglan noi = Lojban nai, Loglan keks = Lojban geks, Loglan ceks = Lojban jeks.
- Gismu
- Grammar
- masses/sets
- abstraction
- modals
- tenses
- relative clauses
- Imperative
- formed by omitting the x1 argument
- mekso
- attitudinals
- negation
- termsets
- Vocatives: hoi instead of doi (as in "rano, hoi Spat. I prano.")
- ??? what else
- Usage/Style