Talk:Welcome! (English) (old version)

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Gleki, WTF was wrong with you? Did you drink too much Kool-Aid while writing this introduction? It reads more like an introduction to the principles of the New Age movement than an introduction to a logical language. I am quite surprised a long-time lojbanist like you is actually dumping so much bullshit into so few text.

Lojban is certainly not a “world language”; AFAIK not even the wildest estimations went over 1000 speakers. Luckily, being a world language is not a goal of Lojban either.

It states: “Lojban changes your mind while you are talking in it”. This would imply the Sapir-Whorf 3 would be correct. But this had not been scientifically proven so far.

Lojban isn’t about journeys, seeing the world brighter or penetrating some essence etc. That’s all esoteric bullshit and aren’t the goals of Lojban.

It’s all too opinionated in my opinion. ;-)

“This website is the main place where all the information on Lojban is presented for free public access.”—That’s a bold claim, to say the least. (emphasis by me)

“Lojban breaks the barrier of misunderstanding of people with different background.”—Nobody knows if this is actually true.

“‘broda’ in Lojban means ‘thinkamagic/crap/any object’”—That’s wrong or at least misleading. “broda” means anything what it has been assigned to with “cei”. Or it is used as “sample” gismu <http://mw.lojban.org/extensions/cll/7/5/>. That does only vaguely fit the description. I think you may have used “co'e” instead.

It claims that Lojban has 4 to 5 less root words than English. This would imply that the number of English root words is known and that it is between 5364 to 6705 (1341·4 and 1341·5, respectivly). I don’t know where you got those numbers from.

Why on Earth did you remove the old introduction? It gives a much better idea about what Lojban is all about.

If I had read this page as an introduction to Lojban (instead of the homepage of <http://www.lojban.org/>), I would have very quickly left the webpage and probably not have become a lojbanist. This introduction is simply just a shame. Sadly, this English version already has been translated to other languages as well.

Anyone: I give you one week to rework the introduction; remove the bullshit; write facts. If you fail to do so, I’ll delete the introduction and replace it with the introduction as seen on <http://www.lojban.org/>.

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Wuzzy (talk)‎07:27, 4 December 2013

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So you mean you want that old introduction and it absolutely satisfies you? Unfortunately I can't even ask others to suggest anything new since nobody read this wiki

But since there is no majority of what to write on the main page (there are only two of us) please ask others of what to write here. I don't want any critics. I want exact suggestions. If you want old text without any improvements then I got your point. Now I want others to make their suggestions.

Also it's pointless to put the previous text here since the old one is already there, on http://lojban.org/tiki We are not shutting down the old wiki. Why duplicating everything when instead we should switch on out creativity.

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Gleki (talk)‎08:34, 4 December 2013


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And I removed the old description because it was a description. It doesn't explain why one would want to leanr Lojban. The only suggestion is

Lojban has a variety of uses, ranging from the creative to the scientific, from the theoretical to the practical.

So what are those purposes? A mystery. I am not convinced.

BTW, the phrase

Lojban attempts to remove restrictions on creative and clear thought and communication.

is the same as my "see the world brighter". Well, rephrased, yes.

Anyway I'm looking forward for your version of the welcome page.

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Gleki (talk)‎11:36, 4 December 2013


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I refactored the page, added new wordings about Lojban that I found on other websites including paragraphs from Tengo's posts in facebook, Steve Rice's thoughts in Loglan3 textbook etc.