Talk:Tiki forum archive/Forum 5/9322
Source: 2013 Tiki forum 5, thread #9322. Original authors, UTC times, post IDs, and reply-parent IDs are preserved. This is an archive, not an active article discussion.
tense question
tense question
lukebergen · 2009-12-17 21:28 UTC · Tiki post #9322
don't really understand the difference between {ca} and {ca'o}. I kind of understand the difference between {ba} and {ba'o} I guess, but when {ca} is used like: {mi nelci do ba lo nu do nelci mi} how is it different from
{ca'o}?tense question
dbrock · 2009-12-18 11:56 UTC · Tiki post #9325 · reply to Tiki post #9322
> So I've been trying to learn the tense words and it occurred to me that I > don't really understand the difference between {ca} and {ca'o}. I kind of > understand the difference between {ba} and {ba'o} I guess, but when {ca} is > used like: {mi nelci do ba lo nu do nelci mi} how is it different from > {ca'o}?
I guess you mean {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}.
Short answer: {ca} = "when", {ca'o} = "while". The difference is that {ca} is about points in time, whereas {ca'o} is about periods in time.
While {broda ca ko'a} means that broda and ko'a overlap at some point in time, {broda ca'o ko'a} means that broda occurs during ko'a. This means that {ca} is symmetrical while {ca'o} is not: {broda ca lo nu brode} = {brode ca lo nu broda}, pretty much, but {broda ca'o lo nu brode} is not the same as {brode ca'o lo nu broda}.
.i mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi I like you when you like me. I like you at some instant when you like me.
.i mi nelci do ca'o lo nu do nelci mi I like you while you like me. I like you the whole time you like me.
Since {ca} is more general than {ca'o}, you can safely use {ca} when in doubt and you can pretty much never go wrong. When you use {ca'o}, you're kind of emphasizing that something occurs during a whole period. When you use {ca}, you're not emphasising anything in particular, just anchoring the event to a point in time.
-- Daniel Brockman [email protected]
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tense question
lukebergen · 2009-12-18 14:05 UTC · Tiki post #9326 · reply to Tiki post #9322
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Daniel Brockman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Luke Bergen <[email protected]> > wrote: > > So I've been trying to learn the tense words and it occurred to me that I > > don't really understand the difference between {ca} and {ca'o}. I kind > of > > understand the difference between {ba} and {ba'o} I guess, but when {ca} > is > > used like: {mi nelci do ba lo nu do nelci mi} how is it different from > > {ca'o}? > > I guess you mean {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}. > > Short answer: {ca} = "when", {ca'o} = "while". The difference is that > {ca} is about points in time, whereas {ca'o} is about periods in time. > > While {broda ca ko'a} means that broda and ko'a overlap at some point > in time, {broda ca'o ko'a} means that broda occurs during ko'a. This > means that {ca} is symmetrical while {ca'o} is not: {broda ca lo nu > brode} = {brode ca lo nu broda}, pretty much, but {broda ca'o lo nu > brode} is not the same as {brode ca'o lo nu broda}. > > .i mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi > I like you when you like me. > I like you at some instant when you like me. > > .i mi nelci do ca'o lo nu do nelci mi > I like you while you like me. > I like you the whole time you like me. > > Since {ca} is more general than {ca'o}, you can safely use {ca} when > in doubt and you can pretty much never go wrong. When you use {ca'o}, > you're kind of emphasizing that something occurs during a whole > period. When you use {ca}, you're not emphasising anything in > particular, just anchoring the event to a point in time. > > -- > Daniel Brockman > [email protected] > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [email protected] > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to [email protected] for help. >
>tense question
baisong · 2009-12-18 14:39 UTC · Tiki post #9328 · reply to Tiki post #9322
How can we reverse the parts before and after {ca} here? Then it could align with the Chinese structure:
ä½ å–œæ¬¢æˆ‘æ—¶ï¼Œæˆ‘å–œæ¬¢ä½ ní xÇhuÄn wÇ’ shí, wó xÇhuÄn nÇ {do nelci mi <when-that-occurs,> mi nelci do }
mi'e .ku'us. .i mu'o
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 22:00, Luke Bergen <[email protected]> wrote:
> .ua ki'e > > > On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 6:52 AM, Daniel Brockman <[email protected]>wrote: > >> On Thu, Dec 17, 2009 at 10:23 PM, Luke Bergen <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > So I've been trying to learn the tense words and it occurred to me that >> I >> > don't really understand the difference between {ca} and {ca'o}. I kind >> of >> > understand the difference between {ba} and {ba'o} I guess, but when {ca} >> is >> > used like: {mi nelci do ba lo nu do nelci mi} how is it different from >> > {ca'o}? >> >> I guess you mean {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}. >> >> Short answer: {ca} = "when", {ca'o} = "while". The difference is that >> {ca} is about points in time, whereas {ca'o} is about periods in time. >> >> While {broda ca ko'a} means that broda and ko'a overlap at some point >> in time, {broda ca'o ko'a} means that broda occurs during ko'a. This >> means that {ca} is symmetrical while {ca'o} is not: {broda ca lo nu >> brode} = {brode ca lo nu broda}, pretty much, but {broda ca'o lo nu >> brode} is not the same as {brode ca'o lo nu broda}. >> >> .i mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi >> I like you when you like me. >> I like you at some instant when you like me. >> >> .i mi nelci do ca'o lo nu do nelci mi >> I like you while you like me. >> I like you the whole time you like me. >> >> Since {ca} is more general than {ca'o}, you can safely use {ca} when >> in doubt and you can pretty much never go wrong. When you use {ca'o}, >> you're kind of emphasizing that something occurs during a whole >> period. When you use {ca}, you're not emphasising anything in >> particular, just anchoring the event to a point in time. >> >> -- >> Daniel Brockman >> [email protected] >> >> >> To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to >> [email protected] >> with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if >> you're really stuck, send mail to [email protected] for help. >> >>
>tense question
Jorge Llambías <[email protected]> · 2009-12-18 18:20 UTC · Tiki post #9332 · reply to Tiki post #9322
> {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}. > > How can we reverse the parts before and after {ca} here? > Then it could align with the Chinese structure: > > ä½ å–œæ¬¢æˆ‘æ—¶ï¼Œæˆ‘å–œæ¬¢ä½ > ní xÇhuÄn wÇ’ shí, wó xÇhuÄn nÇ > {do nelci mi <when-that-occurs,> mi nelci do }
Some possibilities:
(1) ca lo nu do nelci mi kei mi nelci do
(2) lo nu do nelci mi zo'u ca ku mi nelci do
(3) do nelci mi .i ca bo mi nelci do
(1) is the closest in meaning, but you need to put "ca" in front of the subordinate clause. (2) has a slightly different structure, with the subordinate clause as a topic. (3) is the least wordy and superficially the most similar, but there is no longer a subordinate clause, the reference clause is now at the same level as the other clause.
mu'o mi'e xorxes
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tense question
baisong · 2009-12-19 01:28 UTC · Tiki post #9350 · reply to Tiki post #9322
2009/12/19 Jorge Llambías <[email protected]>
> 2009/12/18 Oren <[email protected]>: > > {mi nelci do ca lo nu do nelci mi}. > > > > How can we reverse the parts before and after {ca} here? > > Then it could align with the Chinese structure: > > > > ä½ å–œæ¬¢æˆ‘æ—¶ï¼Œæˆ‘å–œæ¬¢ä½ > > ní xÇhuÄn wÇ’ shí, wó xÇhuÄn nÇ > > {do nelci mi <when-that-occurs,> mi nelci do } > > Some possibilities: > > (1) ca lo nu do nelci mi kei mi nelci do > > (2) lo nu do nelci mi zo'u ca ku mi nelci do > > (3) do nelci mi .i ca bo mi nelci do > > (1) is the closest in meaning, but you need to put "ca" in front of > the subordinate clause. (2) has a slightly different structure, with > the subordinate clause as a topic. (3) is the least wordy and > superficially the most similar, but there is no longer a subordinate > clause, the reference clause is now at the same level as the other > clause. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > To unsubscribe from this list, send mail to [email protected] > with the subject unsubscribe, or go to http://www.lojban.org/lsg2/, or if > you're really stuck, send mail to [email protected] for help. >
>
