Talk:BPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005
Archived Tiki forum discussion for BPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005. Original authors, UTC times, and post IDs are retained below.
BPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005 (Tiki thread #6076)
Re: BPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005
arj · 2006-11-16 11:38 UTC · Tiki post #6077 (reply to #6076)
Is this the right place to post this kind of concern? Will we remember it when the time comes to review the whole thing?
-arjRe: Re: BPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005
arj · 2006-11-16 11:43 UTC · Tiki post #6078 (reply to #6076)
Part of his message (from the main mailing list) reposted here:
The definition and the examples seem very dubious for me, because {diklo} is defined as "x1 is local to x2; x1 is confined to locus x2 within range x3". {di'o} marks x1 of {diklo}, i. e. something that is local or confined to a locus. So {broda di'o da} means that there is / happens {broda} such that {da} is confined to its locus. Consider the example {mi se jibri le sampla di'o la ibubymym}. If {la ibumbum} is x1 of {diklo}, then {la ibumbum} is confined to a locus of where the person works with software. The sentence actually means that the whole IBM is local to where the person works with software! That is something different from "I work with software at IBM"...
I hope you got my English.
mi'e .ianisBPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005
Anonymous · 2006-11-16 12:32 UTC · Tiki post #6079 (reply to #6076)
> > Is this the right place to post this kind of concern? Will we remember > it when the time comes to review the whole thing?
Maybe a new page with errata/points-to-discuss? I never seem to be able to find anything posted on Wiki-discuss threads.
mu'o mi'e xorxesBPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005
lojbab · 2006-11-16 12:44 UTC · Tiki post #6080 (reply to #6076)
> Re: Re: BPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005 > >>Yanis has identified a potential problem with the definition of "di'o". Specifically, the x1 of di'o is said to not match the x1 of diklo. > > > Part of his message (from the main mailing list) reposted here: > > -------------------------------------- > > The definition and the examples seem very dubious for me, because {diklo} is > defined as "x1 is local to x2; x1 is confined to locus x2 within range x3". > {di'o} marks x1 of {diklo}, i. e. something that is local or confined to a > locus. So {broda di'o da} means that there is / happens {broda} such that > {da} is confined to its locus. Consider the example {mi se jibri le sampla > di'o la ibubymym}. If {la ibumbum} is x1 of {diklo}, then {la ibumbum} is > confined to a locus of where the person works with software. The sentence > actually means that the whole IBM is local to where the person works with > software! That is something different from "I work with software at IBM"... > > I hope you got my English. > > mi'e .ianis
That is BAI, a modal and not a tense cmavo per se, and the issue should be raised in that section.
There are a couple of other BAI cmavo that do not exactly match the place structure of the listed gismu for their definition; this dates from when the associated gismu were mnemonic hints for the cmavo but were not definitional. In the past, when this problem was identified, the correction has been to make a lujvo with the place structure that we wish the BAI to represent, and change the reference.
lojbabBPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005
arj · 2006-11-17 13:58 UTC · Tiki post #6081 (reply to #6076)
> arj wrote: >> Re: Re: BPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005 >> >>> Yanis has identified a potential problem with the definition of "di'o". >>> Specifically, the x1 of di'o is said to not match the x1 of diklo. > > That is BAI, a modal and not a tense cmavo per se, and the issue should be > raised in that section.
Just for the record:
"Tense sumtcita" is a completely artificial subdivision of the BAI cmavo, specifically made for the BPFK because BAI is so large.
-- Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ Advisory: There is an Extremely Small but Nonzero Chance That, Through a Process Known as 'Tunneling,' This Product May Spontaneously Disappear from Its Present Location and Reappear at Any Random Place in the Universe, Including Your Neighbors Domicile. The Manufacturer Will Not Be Responsible for Any Damages or Inconvenience That May
Result. --Susan Hewitt and Edward SubitzkyBPFK Section: Tense sumtcita as of 16 Jun 2005
arj · 2006-11-17 14:21 UTC · Tiki post #6082 (reply to #6076)
> On 11/16/06, arj <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Is this the right place to post this kind of concern? Will we remember >> it when the time comes to review the whole thing? > > Maybe a new page with errata/points-to-discuss? I never seem to > be able to find anything posted on Wiki-discuss threads.
Good idea. I've created Issues with checkpointed BPFK sections for this.
I think the problem can be solved simply by replacing the examples with artificial ones.
-- Arnt Richard Johansen http://arj.nvg.org/ Advisory: There is an Extremely Small but Nonzero Chance That, Through a Process Known as 'Tunneling,' This Product May Spontaneously Disappear from Its Present Location and Reappear at Any Random Place in the Universe, Including Your Neighbors Domicile. The Manufacturer Will Not Be Responsible for Any Damages or Inconvenience That May
Result. --Susan Hewitt and Edward Subitzky
