ctatanru: Difference between revisions

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As an aid to sort out our differences regarding [[BPFK Section: Irrealis attitudinals]], and possibly to guide further work on the Attitudinals checkpoint, the relevant issues are recorded here.
===  The Watching Tanru: a lojban poetic form ===


Feel free to edit, but to keep the page manageable, we prefer that you only edit the paragraphs related to ''your own'' opinions. Thank you.
''Two line commentaries: the first line is a bridi without UI cmavo, describing reality. The second line is a commentary on this, as a tanru using only five selbri, and this tanru is "flat"; no be, be'o places. --xod''


== Veto issues ==
It might be better to insert ''sei'' between the two lines; otherwise, the second line becomes part of a 7-part tanru in the description that ends the first line.


=== Backwards-compatibility ===
----


The connection between {ai nai} and the keyword "refusal" is too entrenched in usage to depart from.
An attempt (by [[jbocre: Jordan DeLong e|Jordan DeLong e]]) to describe the form in lojban:


* Arnt Richard
me la ctatanru


=== No redundancy between scalar negation of attitudinal and bridi negation ===
ni'o la ctatanru goi ko'a cu pemci se tamsmi .i lo pemci be setai


{ai nai} cannot impart the same meaning on a sentence as that of {ai} on the negation of that sentence, ie. {ai nai broda} != {ai na broda}
ko'a cu cusku pa jufra poi skicu tu'a da poi jetnu ku'o secau loi


*Robin
cmavo be la'e zo .ui .ibabo cusku lo tanru selbri poi mu brivla cu
*Ted


== Non-veto issues ==
se vasru ke'a zi'e poi jufra catlu


=== Abolition of irrealis ===
----


There should be no irrealis attitudinals.
mi ba'o finti le citno kampemci


*Ted
sei cerni tatpi nalprane cinri nunfinti


=== [[jbocre: Gismu deep structure|Gismu deep structure]] in attitudinals ===
----


Nothing should be expressible as attitudinals that are not also expressible as bridis.
de'a benji lo notci mi la jboste


*Ted
sei cuntu mutce tatpi xo'a pismi hoa cabna


=== Systematicity ===
----


The opposites of the attitudinals are part of a system, from which the current definition of {ai nai}, {e'o nai} and {e'o cu'i} deviates.
lu


*Jorge
le smaji nicte ca'o masno farvi


=== Completeness ===
sei sipna claxu tcini rinka rigni


It is inconvenient that there is no attitudinal for "accidental".
li'u


*Jorge
se finti la [[jbocre: djorden.|djorden.]] setai la ctatanru
 
----
 
lu
 
le stedu be mi cu spofu je blucri
 
sei cortu xlali cortu xlali cortu
 
li'u
 
se finti la [[jbocre: djorden.|djorden.]] setai la ctatanru

Revision as of 16:46, 4 November 2013

The Watching Tanru: a lojban poetic form

Two line commentaries: the first line is a bridi without UI cmavo, describing reality. The second line is a commentary on this, as a tanru using only five selbri, and this tanru is "flat"; no be, be'o places. --xod

It might be better to insert sei between the two lines; otherwise, the second line becomes part of a 7-part tanru in the description that ends the first line.


An attempt (by Jordan DeLong e) to describe the form in lojban:

me la ctatanru

ni'o la ctatanru goi ko'a cu pemci se tamsmi .i lo pemci be setai

ko'a cu cusku pa jufra poi skicu tu'a da poi jetnu ku'o secau loi

cmavo be la'e zo .ui .ibabo cusku lo tanru selbri poi mu brivla cu

se vasru ke'a zi'e poi jufra catlu


mi ba'o finti le citno kampemci

sei cerni tatpi nalprane cinri nunfinti


de'a benji lo notci mi la jboste

sei cuntu mutce tatpi xo'a pismi hoa cabna


lu

le smaji nicte ca'o masno farvi

sei sipna claxu tcini rinka rigni

li'u

se finti la djorden. setai la ctatanru


lu

le stedu be mi cu spofu je blucri

sei cortu xlali cortu xlali cortu

li'u

se finti la djorden. setai la ctatanru