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[[jbocre: Robin Powell|Robin Powell]] propose the creation of a new gismu, kanpe.
A incipient literary journal/newsletter for the Lojban community, currently looking for materials for a first issue:


==  Justification ==
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/12818


The notes for ''pacna'' suggest its use as "expect", but the keywords, and actual usage, make it clear that ''pacna'' is about desire as well as expectation.  The normal response to this would be to make a lujvo, but there are only about 3 words that have a place for the odds of something happening, and none of them help.  ''cu'o'' isn't subjective enough to be useful, and has no rafsi anyways. The best lujvo I could come up with was something like nordjipa'a, which is '''incredibly''' long for such a simple concept.  Furthermore, we need to settle on whether ''pacna'' really can be used to mean "expect" without implying desire, so we're going to have to poke at the gismu list here no matter what we do.
The name means ''extremely hopeful words''. What [[jbocre: Jay Kominek|jez]] is hoping ''for'' is not clear.


Therefore, I propose that we tweak pacna a tiny bit to make it clear that desire is always implied, and add the gismu ''kanpe'' (generated by Arnt and Cowan from the old gismu algorithm) meaning "expect" (without implication of desire).
* I think "words of intense hope" is a better translation.
 
** I didn't intend for the exact meaning to be clear. Interpret it in whatever fashion you find most inspiring. :) --[[jbocre: Jay Kominek|Jay]]
==  Definition ==
 
Based almost entirely on pacna.
 
I don't know how to generate potential rafsi and evaluate them; I think this word is of high utility, though.  Could someone else take a look at that issue?
 
* valsi: kanpe
* Keyword: expect
 
* rafsi: ??
* Definition: x1 expects/looks for the occurence of x2 (event), expected likelihood x3 (0-1, default li so'a (i.e. near 1]; x1 subjectively evaluates the likelihood of x2 (event) to be x3
 
* Notes: The value of x3 is a subjective estimate of likeliness according to x1, and is the basic determinant of whether kanpe means something like "hope" or "wish" or "expect", although kanpe never carries the connotation of desire; for that connotation see ''pacna''. ''kanpe'' with x3 not very close to 1 has no simple equivalent in English, but for objects/states with negligible expectation it is something like "wishing"; if the state is plausibly likely, it is something like "hoping". In both cases, though, the English implication of emotional desire is not present.  The value will usually be expressed using inexact numbers ("li piso'u" to "li piro"); non-desirous wish (= ??), non-desirous hope (= ??); (cf. djica, pacna)
 
==  Effects on Other gismu and Usage ==
 
* We'd need to add bit to the notes of pacna indicating that even when pacna "means" expect, it has the added content of "desired", and that they should cf. kanpe if the don't want that.
* I expect the effect on usage is totally non-existent.

Revision as of 16:45, 4 November 2013

A incipient literary journal/newsletter for the Lojban community, currently looking for materials for a first issue:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/12818

The name means extremely hopeful words. What jez is hoping for is not clear.

  • I think "words of intense hope" is a better translation.
    • I didn't intend for the exact meaning to be clear. Interpret it in whatever fashion you find most inspiring. :) --Jay
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