Missing predicates

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Revision as of 09:52, 10 September 2015 by Ilmen (talk | contribs) (Archives: nu spusku)
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Here is a place for storing known missing predicates which haven't got yet any word in Lojban.

li'a dai, this page should be crowded beyond imagination, but that's not yet the case fortunately. :P

Also see this Google spreadsheet.

List

  • to hesitate / to be hesitant
  • X distinguishes Y from Z
  • X confuses Y with Z / X gets Y and Z mixed up
  • "to convince" and its derivatives. "x1 (event) convinces x2 (object) to do x3 (property of x1)"
  • randa - how to say "I surrended and did it"?
    • x1 surrenders x2 (e.g. army) to enemy x3
    • "to refuse" is of similar meaning: I refused to do it. co'u/na fapro? does this lead to randa being useless?
    • la gleki:
  • traffic jam
    • klafle nunselzu'i ~ nunseldicra? fleselzu'ifau?
  • tsani's recursive predicate
    • <tsani> .i lo ka broda cu ka ko'a ko'e fo'a fo'e ce'ai lo du'u fo'a li pa dubmau kei goi dy zo'u ge ganai me'au dy gi ko'a me'au fo'e lo broda be ko'e bei li mo'e fo'a vu'u pa bei fo'e gi ga me'au dy gi ko'a ko'e me'au fo'e
  • splicing time intervals like "next second, next hour", "the third month"
  • chirality
    • la gleki:
      • Simply a new brivla needed like xansa, although it's possible to find this meaning embedded in others.
  • rotation problem isnt really solved by carna4. "Turn right" vs. "turn counterclockwise". Depends on line if sight which has left-right / up-down orientation.
  • speed. pi'ai/te'ai is the only solution by now. lo mitre be li panono ca lo'e cacra or similar might be another solution.

Archives

  • whether x1 happens depends on whether x2 happens (or similar) -- maybe fancu?
    • fancuka
    • discussed in mriste: xorxes and gleki. The solution is that either fancu should be repurposed or a new brivla necessary. I chose {funsi} = x1 depends on x2. {fancu} retained it places structure
    • la gleki:
      • lo ni mi jimpe ti na te fancu tu'a do
        I don't depend on you to understand this.
      • also se sarcu for some meanings of to depend.
  • hearsay
  • to be worth doing -- jerna, te prali?
    • inda
    • jerna is rather "he is worth paying/praying for/being awarded" but usually not "doing" (although, "he is worth doing a favor to him" fits)
  • to be loyal
  • to betray (probably polysemic)
    • traide
    • x1 violates their allegiance like e.g. betrays his/her country
    • x1 is guilty of treason
    • x1 in breach of trust, delivers his country to x2 (enemy). See "surrender to ...", or yields up any fort or place intrusted to his defense, or surrenders an army or body of troops to the enemy, unless when vanquished; also, one who takes arms and levies war against his country; or one who aids an enemy in conquering his country.
    • x1 betrays any confidence or trust (as a consequence of the previous meaning of "betray").
    • See also "to surrender"
  • du'u version of cusku?
    • smusku
      • la gleki:
        • doesn't answer the question of du'u version of retsku, spusku etc. Proliferating words is ugly. smuretsku with full regularization?
          • la .ilmen.: I use cusku and reisku for direct quotes, and smusku and brireisku for indirect quotes. Another possibility would be to use cusku lu'e lo du'u broda, but I think there would still be a linguistic communication implied, which would encode the given bridi. As for spusku, frati lo ka smusku is always an option. — 2015-09-10
    • la gleki:
      • sorry for a tiki style discussion here but how would that work with direct quotations?
      • There would be no linguistic communication implied (meaning can be conveyed without being encoded in a syntactic language); however you could still use {ta'i} or the "by way/method" argument slot, filling it with { lo ka bacru/ciska/.... [quote] }. mi'e la .ilmen. mu'o 12:45, 13 oktobero 2014 (UTC)
  • traffic -- {klafle} or {ma'efle} are probably suitable.
    • x1 is a movement of passengers, goods etc. x2 in system x3
      • x1 is a movement of pedestrians and vehicles... x2 on roads x3
  • traffic light
    • gusyjveklastika sei malselsku - light movement-regulator
    • gustromi'i - light conducter machine
    • fletrogusmi'i, maybe.