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The relevant part of the CLL for lerfu-forming cmavo is chapter 17, specifically, sections 3, 5, 6, 7 and 14. I find no internal contradictions in the text, and its completeness is satisfactory, except for a small concern about alphabet and font shifts, which I will return to shortly.  
This page tends to be an "add as you go" page that answers questions that beginners and intermediates may ask about particular elements in the language that confuses them or they find to be "void." Such as the lack of gramatic gender.


The words in this paradigm has seen almost no use outside the language definition materials. This probably is because they are related to spelling, which is a predominantly oral activity. (Finding occurrences of "aitch" in an English corpus this small would probably give similar results.) It is perhaps worth mentioning that I discovered the members of LAU, TEI and FOI on a Wiki page titled "Cmavo that are a ghastly waste of precious monosyllabic cmavo space"...  
While it is to be expected that these questions are vague and underinformed, and we should do our best to answer them regardless, that does not excuse not doing one's best to ask precise and informed questions. The more effort you put into the question, the more you'll get out of the answer.


However, I'm happy to report that "boi" is being used, and always correctly. Some examples:
== Remember folks, Translation Is Hard. You can't translate anything you don't understand. ==


[http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice_7.html]
==== Why isn't there anything like his/her, and what can I use to get that effect? ====


[http://www.lojban.org/texts/translations/alice/alice_9.html]  
Different languages have different concepts of [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_g gender].  In Lojban, the closest thing to it is the textual gender used to assign lerfu variables to referents. See [[jbocre: lerfu pro-sumti, and why ko'a sucks|lerfu pro-sumti, and why ko'a sucks]] for more information on some Lojbanic ways to deal with anaphora.


The Book does not say explicitly how far the alphabet shift (zai and friends) and the font shift lasts. Presumably, it must last for more than one letter, because of the existence of the font-and-alphabet shift cancelling cmavo "na'a" (p 418), and the illustration on p 412 ("zai xanlerfu bu ly .obu jy by .abu ny.").
==== I am translating a language that the speaker refers to him/her self using various different words, should I and how can I translate those to lojban? (For instance, Japanese; watashi, atashi, boku, ore, sessha, etc) ====


Since there is a possibillity of specifying categories such as font face and text size separately (according to examples 5.5 - 5.7), I have assumed that the intention is for the ce'a shift to take effect until another ce'a shift is applied to the ''same category''. My cmavo definition of ce'a reflects that. I will leave it to the shepherd of BY to take care of the other cmavo that act similarly.  
This requires actually understanding the meaning of the words. In Japanese, contrary to popular belief, the words do not imply the gender of the speaker. Rather, they reflect the speaker's attitude and politeness about and towards the environment around him, and his perceived status in it. Combinations of le'o, ga'i and others suffice in this case.


== Proposed dictionary entries ==
In the case of actual gender, there is no attitudinal. However, consider, is the speaker actually making a point of the gender? Or are they simply following the rules of the language, in the most expedient fashion possible? We suggest you do the same (in either case: if the speaker needs to state something about someone's gender, then by all means do so explicitly.  You can use words like {nakni} and {fetsi} and add incidental information with {noi} clauses, perhaps).


;boi: Terminates a letteral sequence or a numeral.
==== Can I write le mibrirni/doirirni <unrelated bridi> to mean "I"/"You listeners" with "{I am/You listeners are} a/as-a parent" as some incidental information, like when you refer to someone in other languages? ====


;bu: Combines with the previous word to make a Lojban letteral, provided that it is not one of the quote cmavo (ZO, ZOI, LOhU, LEhU) or one of the erasure cmavo (SI, SA, SU), ZEI, BAhE, or FAhO. If the aforementioned previous word is already a letteral, the resulting letteral will not necessarily be the same, for instance, "ky. bu" != "ky". In addition to single words, bu can be combined with a letteral that is already a composite of a word+bu.
(Related to the previous question but not entirely.)


;ce'a: Converts the following lerfu to a font change letteral; font changes affect every letteral after them in the letteral sequence. More than one can be in effect at a time, but if two directly contradict each other, only the latest one applies.
No. ''mibrirni'' is a lujvo and, whatever it means, it functions like any other brivla, so {le mibrirni} is a sumti that refers to that which I describe as a mibrirni (a "me-parent", either my parent(s) or myself as a parent maybe) and it will fill a place in a bridi like any other sumti. ''doirirni'' = ''doi rirni'' (two separate words even if you don't write a space between them) is a vocative you can use to address your parent(s).


;foi: Marks the end of a combination letteral; the resulting letteral is some unspecified (lexically defined) combination of all the enclosed letterals.
Grammar and morphology issues aside, do you mean something like "Now I know all you loving parents are hardworking decent people..."?  Or something like that?  You can use {doi} vocatives to indicate whom you're talking to.  {doi rirni} means "I'm addressing you, parent(s)," but on the other side, if the audience knows who they are, it therefore means that you, the audience, are parents.  You can do something similar with {mi'e}, but [[User:Mark Shoulson|Mark Shoulson]] don't really see how to fit that in naturally.  I don't think I understand the context of the question in this matter.  Information incidental to something that's already being mentioned is done well with {noi}.


;lau: Converts the following letteral to punctuation. The following letteral may be a single letteral word, a combination letteral with tei and foi, or a letteral combined with bu. It may also be prefixed by lau.
==== Why does no one like my lujvo? ====


;tau: Converts the following letteral to the opposite case, e.g. convert an uppercase letteral to lowercase, or a lowercase letteral to uppercase. The following letteral may be a single letteral word, a combination letteral with tei and foi, or a letteral combined with bu. It may also be prefixed by lau.
Making bad lujvo is easy. Making good, understandable lujvo is subtle. It requires a nontrivial grasp of Lojban, and a solid idea of what lujvo you're trying to make. In particular, you have to understand that you're translating a concept, not a single word. Hot tip: think about how you'd use it in a sentence as the selbri, not in part of a sumti.


;tei: Marks the beginning of a combination letteral; the resulting letteral is some unspecified (lexically defined) combination of all the enclosed letterals.
* This question was so affecting that I couldn't help weeping while reading it  ''-inego''


;zai: Marks the following letteral as an alphabet shift. The following letteral may be a single letteral word, a combination letteral with tei and foi, or a letteral combined with bu. It may also be prefixed by lau.
==== The selma'o UI layout ====


== Proposed keywords ==
:<Josiah> definition  attitudinal: hope - despair <--- which is it?
 
::this would be a'o
;boi: end letteral. end numeral
:::<arran4> a'o hope, a'onai despair
 
:::<arran4> It's showing you the opposite/negative as well for clarity.
;bu: sign. character. symbol.
 
;ce'a: change font to. in font.
 
;foi: characters joined together
 
;lau: punctuation symbol. punctuation sign.
 
;tau: uppercase.
 
;tei: character composed of
 
;zai: change alphabet to. in alphabet.
 
== Omission of unused cmavo ==
 
Given that Lojban does not seem to be intended for holding multilingual spelling bees, and that a dictionary containing many unused cmavo with bizarre functions could confuse learners of the language, the BPFK does not recommend to include the alphabet shift ''zai'' in learning materials intended even for advanced learners. The cmavo should not be reassigned to have other meanings, however.
 
== Overall changes ==
 
This proposal entails the following changes:
 
* Codify that letteral shifts last indefinitely or until superseded by another shift in the same category.
* Replace old definitions with new ones (see above)
 
* Add new keywords (see above)
 
== Impact ==
 
It is my opinion that these changes are mere clarifications, and will not impact or invalidate usage, current or past. It also appears to agree with the letter shifts in [[BPFK Section: Lerfu Shifts]].

Revision as of 16:45, 4 November 2013

This page tends to be an "add as you go" page that answers questions that beginners and intermediates may ask about particular elements in the language that confuses them or they find to be "void." Such as the lack of gramatic gender.

While it is to be expected that these questions are vague and underinformed, and we should do our best to answer them regardless, that does not excuse not doing one's best to ask precise and informed questions. The more effort you put into the question, the more you'll get out of the answer.

Remember folks, Translation Is Hard. You can't translate anything you don't understand.

Why isn't there anything like his/her, and what can I use to get that effect?

Different languages have different concepts of gender. In Lojban, the closest thing to it is the textual gender used to assign lerfu variables to referents. See lerfu pro-sumti, and why ko'a sucks for more information on some Lojbanic ways to deal with anaphora.

I am translating a language that the speaker refers to him/her self using various different words, should I and how can I translate those to lojban? (For instance, Japanese; watashi, atashi, boku, ore, sessha, etc)

This requires actually understanding the meaning of the words. In Japanese, contrary to popular belief, the words do not imply the gender of the speaker. Rather, they reflect the speaker's attitude and politeness about and towards the environment around him, and his perceived status in it. Combinations of le'o, ga'i and others suffice in this case.

In the case of actual gender, there is no attitudinal. However, consider, is the speaker actually making a point of the gender? Or are they simply following the rules of the language, in the most expedient fashion possible? We suggest you do the same (in either case: if the speaker needs to state something about someone's gender, then by all means do so explicitly. You can use words like {nakni} and {fetsi} and add incidental information with {noi} clauses, perhaps).

Can I write le mibrirni/doirirni <unrelated bridi> to mean "I"/"You listeners" with "{I am/You listeners are} a/as-a parent" as some incidental information, like when you refer to someone in other languages?

(Related to the previous question but not entirely.)

No. mibrirni is a lujvo and, whatever it means, it functions like any other brivla, so {le mibrirni} is a sumti that refers to that which I describe as a mibrirni (a "me-parent", either my parent(s) or myself as a parent maybe) and it will fill a place in a bridi like any other sumti. doirirni = doi rirni (two separate words even if you don't write a space between them) is a vocative you can use to address your parent(s).

Grammar and morphology issues aside, do you mean something like "Now I know all you loving parents are hardworking decent people..."? Or something like that? You can use {doi} vocatives to indicate whom you're talking to. {doi rirni} means "I'm addressing you, parent(s)," but on the other side, if the audience knows who they are, it therefore means that you, the audience, are parents. You can do something similar with {mi'e}, but Mark Shoulson don't really see how to fit that in naturally. I don't think I understand the context of the question in this matter. Information incidental to something that's already being mentioned is done well with {noi}.

Why does no one like my lujvo?

Making bad lujvo is easy. Making good, understandable lujvo is subtle. It requires a nontrivial grasp of Lojban, and a solid idea of what lujvo you're trying to make. In particular, you have to understand that you're translating a concept, not a single word. Hot tip: think about how you'd use it in a sentence as the selbri, not in part of a sumti.

  • This question was so affecting that I couldn't help weeping while reading it -inego

The selma'o UI layout

<Josiah> definition attitudinal: hope - despair <--- which is it?
this would be a'o
<arran4> a'o hope, a'onai despair
<arran4> It's showing you the opposite/negative as well for clarity.