CLL heresies: Scope of "ko": Difference between revisions

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<font color="#ff0000">'''"However", saith the heresiarch (and thus leadeth the Lojbanists into damnation):'''</font>
<font color="#ff0000">'''"However", saith the heresiarch (and thus leadeth the Lojbanists into damnation):'''</font>


I'm not sure '''ko'oi''' should scope over the entire sentence. Consider that '''ko'oi''' is meant to represent one of '''e'a''', '''e'e''', '''e'i''', '''e'o''', '''e'u'''. Also consider the magic brivla {{jvs|koinde}}, which is like {{jvs|minde}} but is more general, meant to represent anything one would use '''ko'''/the imperative mood for.
I'm not sure '''ko'oi''' ''should'' scope over the entire sentence. Consider that '''ko'oi''' is meant to represent one of '''e'a''', '''e'e''', '''e'i''', '''e'o''', '''e'u'''. Also consider the magic brivla {{jvs|koinde}}, which is like {{jvs|minde}} but is more general, meant to represent anything one would use '''ko'''/the imperative mood for.


Consider:
Consider:

Revision as of 06:01, 21 August 2015

Heresiarch: la zipcpi


Quoth CLL 7.2:

mi viska le prenu poi prami ko = Make “I see the person that loves you” true! / Be such that the person who loves you is seen by me! / Show me the person that loves you

In other words, if ko = do ko'oi, ko'oi scopes over the entire sentence.


"However", saith the heresiarch (and thus leadeth the Lojbanists into damnation):

I'm not sure ko'oi should scope over the entire sentence. Consider that ko'oi is meant to represent one of e'a, e'e, e'i, e'o, e'u. Also consider the magic brivla koinde, which is like minde but is more general, meant to represent anything one would use ko/the imperative mood for.

Consider:

mi viska le prenu poi prami do ko'oi

Should it expand to:

mi koinde do lo ka gau ce'u mi viska le prenu poi ke'a prami do, as CLL asserts, or:

mi viska le prenu poi mi koinde do lo ka ke'a prami ce'u, which roughly means "I see the person that I want you to love"?


But why rocketh thou the boat?

The problem becomes obvious if you move ko'oi to attach to the poi-clause:

mi viska le prenu poi ko'oi prami do

And/or replace it with one of the more specific imperative attitudinals, e.g. e'u:

mi viska le prenu poi prami do e'u / mi viska le prenu poi e'u prami do

If e'u can't break scope outside the sub-bridi, why should ko'oi?

And why should ko have this scope breaking magic just so one could look clever changing an entire sentence into a command by mutating a completely incidental do, when it's probably better to just use gau ko or prefix ko'oi? We can't use this magic for mi viska le nanmu poi prami la .tom. anyway; we'd have to actually use gau ko or ko'oi in this case.