chungYang

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Here's another try to get a non-Western poem translated into Lojban - this time it's your turn (but not from an English version! The German translation - as a hint - is as close as possible.)

Volunteers ahead! (Greg?)

Ch'ung-yang (Herbstfest)

Der Mensch wird leicht - und schwer der Himmel alt:

's wird Jahr um Jahr Ch'ung-yang.

Und wieder heut' Ch'ung-yang:

Das Schlachtfeld weit im Duft der Chrysanthemen.

Ein Jahr, ein Abschnitt - und der Herbstwind stark,

Nicht gleicht's dem Fr�hlingsglanz,

Sieg gleicht dem Fr�hlingsglanz,

Ein �der Himmel �berm Fluss, Frost meilenweit.

(�bers. v. A.W. T�ting)

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Do you really have to use the Wade-Giles transliteration? Hey, why not?! (I'd really be happy if you wouldn't just keep asking "why, why, why" but also give some focus on the reason of your queries. If you are really interested in learning about this stuff, I could give you more elaborated considerations with regard to the pros and cons of at least some dozens of different forms for romanizing Chinese, quite a couple of them being much better than Pinyin - which you seemingly have in mind asking above. I use Pinyin as a shurufa for computer input and was doing my first steps studying Chinese about more than 30 years from now using it. For modern use (i.e. internet, computer input etc.) good old woyeu Romatzyh would be much better - but that is politics! BTW, don't use the word "transliteration" for it. --mi'e .aulun. .i zo'o neldji lenu cilre le du'u le so'iroi selrei cu me makau .i e'o ko litmau

• I like pinyin because it is the important one to know for watching the news or studying China in history class (at least at my school we spell his name Mao Zedong, thank you very much) - if you do not know the pinyin system then you will not know how to pronounce Beijing, for example. Therefore, it is the only one I have bothered to learn. It has its flaws, but, like base 10, it is standard anyway. I would be happiest if you just put next to whatever you use the IPA, since that is the only system that the majority of lojbanists know. - mi'e. .kreig.daniyl.
  • I usually give (modern) Mandarin words in Pinyin + Gwoyeu Romatzyh (+ Wade-Giles for ancient names). In translated poetry, I stick to W-G, even in German versions (avoiding the German romanization: e.g. Tschao Y��-dschih). In Hungarian versions - just one for all - I'd use Hungarian romanization: e.g. Si King (Shi1 Jing1/Shy Jing/Shih1 Ching1) - and there is also a famous French system, and many others. Wade-Giles, although much better than Pinyin, from a scholarly standpoint is not too good, but melbi mi :) BTW, romanizations like that of Peking (quoted by you) infact go back to systems used/created by German (v. d. Gabelentz) or Scandinavian (Karlgren) and other scholars doing research on ancient Chinese language and phonology (e.g. that of Middle Chinese), and are historical notations, i.e. giving hints on ancient pronunciation. Thus - following the conventions pointed out - Peking is (and ever had!) to be pronounced as py: Beijing. Yet, and you're right with that, one should by all means be familiar with Pinyin these days. Ceterum censeo: It would be nice to see your translations in Lojban --.aulun.

• • • And then there's his romanization, a slight modification of Pinyin which is also a tonal spelling like GR.
      • Not bad, because easier than GR, but also pretty lenghty - and (as I feel) not as good to visually remember the tone by getting a more characteristic "picture" of each romanized word. But that's the price of memorizing less orthographic rules. GR has been invented long before Py has been brought up, and there were mainly political reasons for not having been accepted and not the system's complexity. So forget trying to modify Pinyin along the line of good old "Guo2yu3 Luo2ma3zi" :( BTW, your "waihbian" should be "waihbiaan" (waybian), and "hong yaanhjing" "hong yaanhjingh" (horng yaanjinq) unless ir baruft zikh af dem krolik mit roze oygn - then it had to be "yaanhjiing" (yaanjing) ;-)

• • • Having /n/ and /N/ as the same phoneme is a problem for transliterating Chinese. However, here is my attempt at transliterating Mandarin
      • We had a discussion about transcription of Pinyin to Lojban with pc and Ivan Derzhanski about a year back - maybe you should have a look into it on the list. --.aulun.

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