Talk:Lojban CVS Server

The following discussion may no longer apply.

This is mostly just a dilution of mailing list posts on the topic, so I apologize for amazingly weak formatting. Send me an email, maybe I'll fix it.

© Note that there is a web interface (read-only) to the cvs repository(external link). ~/c~

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Subject: CVS Repository for Translations: READY

 To: lojban@onelist.com
Mail-Followup-To: lojban@onelist.com


My lojban translation CVS server is ready.

For those of you who've never used CVS, go to http://www.cvshome.org/.
They have clients there for both Windows and Unix and probably Mac as
well (although I didn't check), so no complaints about computer bigotry!
8)

Set your CVSROOT to:

:pserver:<userid>@digitalkingdom.org:/home/cvs

The userids I currently have set up are:

rlpowell
lojbab
phma
jay
xorxes
matvey
rpc

These were culled from the discussion about what servers people wanted.
All passwords are blank; please be polite and login as yourself.  If you
want a login, mail me.

The only module currently is 'lojban', until Mr. Curnow tells me how to
mirror the jbofi'e source.

The only file that's ready to be worked on is alice.texinfo, which is a
marked up version of "Alice's Adventures In Wonderland".  It's all one
big file now, but if people want me to break it into chapters I can do
that.

I felt that that book met my crieteria for a translation project the
best:

1.  English as the original language.
2.  Relatively _modern_ English.
3.  Light on double entendre.
4.  Popular.
5.  No copyrights.

Note that the initial checkout will take Some Time, as the 'originals'
directory contains several other documents (all gathered from the
Gutenberg Project, btw) that might make good translation projects, some
of which are quite large.

NOTE:  The file 'alice.texinfo' includes information at the top on how
to edit it.  If anyone finds those directions insufficient, please
inform me.

-Robin

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Subject: lojban The Translation Site for Normal Users

 From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: lojban@yahoogroups.com

On Sun, Apr 22, 2001 at 08:04:25PM +0000, ******* wrote:
>
> >For those of you who've never used CVS, go to http://www.cvshome.org/.
>
> I went there and I'm afraid I'm unable to understand a single word
> of it. I'm only a user, I don't have a degree in Computer Science...
> I followed the links that seemed to be for Windows, but I couldn't
> reach anything that I could make any sense of. Could you just direct
> me to which file I should download? Thanks!

All right, I'm not going to say whom this was from, as it was a private
mail, but here are instructions for accessing the translation files for
Normal Windows Users.

Note that the vast majority of these instructions are identical for
Macs.

The home page for MacCVS/WinCVS is:

http://www.cvsgui.org/


The actual binaries are at

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=10072&release_id=24467


The latest WinCVS, in particular, is at

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/cvsgui/WinCvs120.zip


And the latest non-beta MacCVS is at

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/cvsgui/MacCVS3111.sit.hqx

It's for PowerPC.



So, grab that, unzip it to a temp directory, run Setup, follow the
prompts, reboot.

Run WinCVS (in Start->Gnu->WinCVS).

Close the tip window, there'll be a window there that has the title
"WinCVS Preferences" (if it's not there it's in the Admin menu,
"Preferences".  The CVSROOT is

:pserver:<userid>@digitalkingdom.org:/home/cvs

where <userid> is your userid that I've given you.

Authentication type is

"passwd" file on the cvs server


You shouldn't need to change anything else, so hit OK.


Then go to Admin -> Login.

Do _not_ enter a password, just hit OK.

In the little window at the bottom should be the line:

*****CVS exited normally with code 0*****

If it doesn't say that, in particular if it says 'code 1' instead, scroll up to see what the problem is and check your entries in Admin->Preferences. If that still doesn't work, mail me.

Note that a firewall will likely stop all this from working.

Then go to Create->Check Out Module

The module name and path is

lojban

And you should pick a new local folder to put stuff in.

You will then have a folder on the right hand side named 'lojban'. First, select the 'cvs' folder in the left hand section of the window. Right-click, and select 'Reload View'. The go into the folder named 'lojban' (double click) , then translations, then pick which project want to look at/work on.

The following assumes you're going to edit a file, otherwise just double click on the file you want to read and if it asks you what program to use to view it, select WordPad.

Select the file to edit so that it is highlited, then select Trace->Modify Selection, or the little icon on the toolbar that looks like a pencil (just to the left of the eraser). This step is *VERY* important, otherwise you won't be able to edit the right file!

There should be a pencil _without_ a blue line through it now by the file you want to edit.

I, for example, need to make a change to the 5th chapter of Alice, so I went into lojban->translations->alice and double-clicked on alice-05.texinfo.

If, at this point, you are asked what program to open the file with, select WordPad or NotePad (I reccomend WordPad, partly because it's easy to find: right near the bottom of the list, usually).

Edit the file as you wish. Save when done.

Select the file so that it is highlited, then select Modify->Commit Selection, or the icon that looks like a piece of paper with a red arrow coming out of it (just to the left of the directory dropdown). Hit OK at the window that's popped up.

Some processing occurs, and then the pencil to the left of the file should get a blue line through it again.

Congratulations, the changes you just made are available to all other lojbanists!

***IMPORTANT***

If you're editing files, every once in a while, select the 'cvs' folder in the left hand section of the window, then the 'lojban' folder in the right hand section of the window, then select Modify->Update Selection (or the little piece of paper with the green arrow coming into it beside the Commit icon). This will bring all the changes that others have made onto your machine.

In particular, do this just before you Commit, or it will refuse to commit (you'll know this has happened if, after you commit, the pencil has no blue line through it).

Feel free to mail me if you need more help.

-Robin

Edit Section

Subject: Re: lojban The Translation Site for Normal Users

 To: lojban@yahoogroups.com
Mail-Followup-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com

On Mon, Apr 23, 2001 at 01:01:40AM +0000, Jorge Llambias wrote:
> I translated a paragraph from alice-01. The problem I see now is that
> unless one person coordinates the whole thing, the translation will be
> horribly hodgepodgy. I suppose it would not be right for me to edit
> what someone else translated or for someone else to edit what I
> translated.

Ah, important point.

I think that people should _absolutely_ edit other people's work.
Hopefully things will eventually settle on the 'best' translation.  So
please, read what other people have done!

However, I do request that when you do so you put a comment (@c at th
beginning of the line marks comments) saying why you made the change.

> Changes are not recorded, right?

YES! They most certainly _are_ recorded, this is the whole point of
using CVS.  I can revert to _any_ previous version if people give me a
good reason to do so (i.e. you accidentally checked in a version with
most of the text missing).

-Robin

Edit Section

Subject: CVS README

 To: lojban@onelist.com
Mail-Followup-To: lojban@onelist.com

Here's the updated version of the README in the translations directory.
Comments welcome.

- ---

The directories that are populated so far:

alice/          Lewis Carrol's "Alice's Adventures In Wonderland",
                texinfo format.
drbible/        The Douay-Rheims version of the Bible, texinfo format.
german/         Translating brochures into german, XML format.
originals/      Texts copied verbatim from the Gutenberg Project.

In general, please do _not_ start at the beginning of whatever you're
working on (i.e. I started translating Alice with Chapter 5).  Everyone
will, by default, be inclined to start at the beginning, and that gets
_ugly_.


Notes on Changes
====

People should _absolutely_ edit other people's work. Hopefully things
will eventually settle on the 'best' translation.  So please, read what
other people have done!

However, I do request that when you do so you put a comment (@c at th
beginning of the line marks comments) saying why you made the change.


Here's a small set of guidelines on those comments (Courtesy of Jay
Kominek):


1) If there is a grammatical error where the correction is obvious, then
fix it. No need to make a note of anything.

2) If there is a grammatical error where the correction isn't obvious,
then fix it, and make a little note.

3) If you think that some grmmatical form was poorly chosen, make a
note, but don't do anything.

4) If you think a word is really badly chosen, make a note.

5) If you think a word is _stylistically_ poorly chosen, (because you
don't like some cmavo, or when gismu are similar. 'drink' vs 'eat' for
something ambigous, like gelatin), then just make a mental note of it to
discuss when translation is nearing completion and the whole thing has
to be made consistent.


Worrying about consistency during the initial phase of a group
translation project seems like it might be premature. (Though something
to keep in the back of your mind.) A final pass for consistency will be
needed no matter what.

So, don't worry about consistency too much.  Stylistic consistency will
be up to whomever edits the final draft, but let's get it _done_ first,
yes?


Changes most certainly _are_ recorded, this is the whole point of using
CVS.  I can revert to _any_ previous version if people give me a good
reason to do so (i.e. you accidentally checked in a version with most of
the text missing).



Notes on TexInfo
====

Lines that start with '@c ' or '@comment ' are comments, that will
show up in none of the compiled versions.  The original text has been
placed in lines of this type, with break for paragraphs.

To help with the translation, simply pick a paragraph and enter the
lojban text, straight up, _without_ '@c ' or any other markup,
_after_ the original paragraph.  Almost all the markup this file
needs has already been done for you.

Note that there should be a blank line before and after each
paragraph.

To deal with places where the exact layout of the text is important
(just about any poetry, for example), place the command '@format' before
the text and '@end format' at the end.


Subject: CVS modules.
To: lojban@onelist.com
Mail-Followup-To: lojban@onelist.com

'alice' and 'drbible' now have their own CVS modules, so you don't need
to check out everything to work on one of those.

-Robin

Edit Section

Subject: lojban CVS ettiquette

 From: Pierre Abbat <phma@oltronics.net>
To: lojban@yahoogroups.com
Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
Delivery-date: Sat, 05 May 2001 21:49:28 -0700
X-eGroups-Return: sentto-44114-7078-989124566-rlpowell=digitalkingdom.org@returns.onelist.com
X-Apparently-To: lojban@yahoogroups.com
Mailing-List: list lojban@yahoogroups.com; contact lojban-owner@yahoogroups.com
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Reply-To: phma@oltronics.net

I looked through the log and saw a large number of entries with no message.
Please put a note in the log each time you commit saying what change you made,
and if it's anything more than a short comment, post it to the list.

As some of you are new to CVS, I'll explain in detail:
When you type "cvs commit", CVS talks to the server, and after a while brings
up an editor (normally vi, but you can select another with the EDITOR
environment variable; I use kwrite) with a few lines like this:

CVS: --------------------------
CVS: Enter Log.  Lines beginning with 'CVS:' are removed automatically
CVS:
CVS: Committing in .
CVS:
CVS: Modified Files:
CVS:     ot-exodus.texinfo
CVS: Added Files:
CVS:     NEW_WORDS
CVS: --------------------------

There is a blank line before the first "CVS:" line, and the cursor is on that
line. Enter the comment (in vi you have to first type 'a' or 'i', and hit
Escape when you're finished), copy the entire file to the clipboard (this is
not a vi function; highlight it with the mouse), compose a mail message, paste
it (middle mouse button; but from kwrite to kmail you can use 

C and 

V), close
the editor (:wq in vi), and send the message. If it's not obvious what
directory you were in when you typed "cvs commit", please add that to the CVS
comment.

phma

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