View source for Talk:Lojban Wave Lessons/Single page

== Lesson 11 ==

The event contours chart in section 11 is missing {xo'u}.
--[[User:Niccolo|Niccolo]] ([[User talk:Niccolo|talk]]) 16:38, 28 December 2015 (PST)
* According to another [https://mw.lojban.org/papri/Stub:_Grammatical_aspects view] {xo'u} is not needed [[User:Gleki|mu&#39;o mi&#39;e La Gleki]] ([[User talk:Gleki|talk]]) 22:19, 28 December 2015 (PST)
** Gleki, I'm not sure I understood all the examples in that table, and {xo'u} isn't even mentioned. Are you referring to {mo'unai} or something? If there's a way to talk about the ending point of a process, I see no reason why there shouldn't be a way to talk about the beginning point. And if {mo'u} is going to be in the chart, then it seems to me that whatever the proper opposite of {mo'u} is should be included too. --[[User:Niccolo|Niccolo]] ([[User talk:Niccolo|talk]]) 15:11, 3 January 2016 (PST)
*** {xo'u} isn't mentioned there because it's simply not needed. Look at the last table on that page. co'a/ca'o/co'u/mo'u create the complete set. [[User:Gleki|mu&#39;o mi&#39;e La Gleki]] ([[User talk:Gleki|talk]]) 00:32, 4 January 2016 (PST)
**** How much of that "Grammatical aspects" page is considered canon? The very last sentence ("It's not yet known how...") makes me think that the contents of that page is still experimental. The small tables at the bottom of that page can't be the complete set, because the event contours chart includes several more sumticita, and the way the set [co'a/ca'o/co'u/mo'u] is explained in those tables conflicts with the definitions for those sumtcita in the dictionaries. As I understand it, the point-like time sumtcita are like this:
***** {co'a} = the bridi is at its (actual) starting point during [sumti].
***** {??} = the bridi is at its "natural" starting point / ''should'' start during [sumti].
***** {co'i} = the bridi happens during / is at the same point in time as [sumti].
***** {mo'u} = the bridi is at its "natural" ending point / ''should'' end during [sumti].
***** {co'u} = the bridi is at its (actual) ending point during [sumti].
**** Doesn't leaving out {xo'u} seem, at least, oddly asymmetrical? Unless the semantic distinction between "natural" and actual start/end points for events is being removed...? --[[User:Niccolo|Niccolo]] ([[User talk:Niccolo|talk]]) 16:57, 4 January 2016 (PST)
***** Oh, la jbovlaste says that ''{xo'u}'' is actually the experimental cmavo in this list. I more often check la sutysisku because it's a bit quicker, but it doesn't include the warnings about experimental gismu and cmavo. I still feel like adding {xo'u} would make sense though -- and if {xo'u} is really unnecessary, then I think the explanation of the point-like event contours, both here in the Wave Lessons ''and'' in the dictionaries, is a little unclear... --[[User:Niccolo|Niccolo]] ([[User talk:Niccolo|talk]]) 17:02, 4 January 2016 (PST)
******"It's not yet know how telicity..." because no one can be sure what a particular linguist means by "telicity". Definitions can be indeed unclear. For example, you mention '''co'i''', which according to almost every but one official example is hat is known to linguistcs as perfective aspect. Btw, "during, at the same point in time as" is '''ca''', and not '''co'i'''.
******la sutysisku now shows cmavo as experimental explicitly
== Lesson 12 ==

Why are we given a way to give an affirmative response to a yes/no question, but not a way to give a negative response? I don't think it's too hard to just add {na} or {na'e}. We could say that we'll go more into negating selbri and bridi later, or we could reorder the lessons so that we read about negation first. But teaching yes/no questions and only talking about "yes" answers seems weird, confusing, and unhelpful. --[[User:Niccolo|Niccolo]] ([[User talk:Niccolo|talk]]) 15:11, 3 January 2016 (PST)
*indeed[[User:Gleki|mu&#39;o mi&#39;e La Gleki]] ([[User talk:Gleki|talk]]) 00:32, 4 January 2016 (PST)