View source for Talk:BPFK gismu Proposal: kanpe

''Archived Tiki forum discussion for [[BPFK gismu Proposal: kanpe]]. Original authors, UTC times, and post IDs are retained below.''

== BPFK gismu Proposal: kanpe (Tiki thread #3909) ==

=== Wiki page BPFK gismu Proposal: kanpe changed ===
''arj · 2005-02-12 21:46 UTC · Tiki post #3914 (reply to #3909)''
<div style="white-space: pre-wrap">On Sat, 12 Feb 2005, Robert LeChevalier wrote:

&gt;&gt; Based almost entirely on pacna.
&gt;&gt; 
&gt;&gt; I don't know how to generate potential rafsi and evaluate them; I think 
&gt;&gt; this word is of high utility, though.  Could someone else take a look at 
&gt;&gt; that issue?
&gt;&gt; 
&gt; No opinion at this point on the proposal.  If a rafsi is desired, then that 
&gt; should be factored into the gismu algorithm word selection.  I don't know how 
&gt; and when Arnt and Cowan generated words, but if the original program was 
&gt; used, there would be a list of multiple candidates.  What are the sources 
&gt; from the 6 languages?

John implemented re-implemented the gismu scoring algorithm in Perl, from 
the description in the Red Book.

My part in this is that I re-ran his program and got a different result. 
It turned out that his script for generating candidate gismu forms didn't 
generate all possibilities, while my is vastly overgenerating -- but that 
doesn't matter, so long as the winner has a legal form.

The sources from the 6 languages were:
Chinese: uan
Hindi: rakan
English: ekspekt
Spanish: esper
Russian: predpologa
Arabic: mulud (no effect on scoring)

&gt; I'll try to run the program on it, and see what comes up (note that the 
&gt; current weightings are slightly different from those of 1986, and running 
&gt; with different weightings also gives different answers).

Please do. John used the most recent weighthings he could get, viz.:
zh: 0.347
hi: 0.196
en: 0.160
es: 0.123
ru: 0.089
ar: 0.085

-- 
Arnt Richard Johansen                                http://arj.nvg.org/
Att handla en kvarting p Systemet kan vara oerhrt sofistikerad p ett
digitalt plan.                                    -- Z mag@zine</div>

== BPFK gismu Proposal: kanpe (Tiki thread #3910) ==

=== Wiki page BPFK gismu Proposal: kanpe changed ===
''Anonymous · 2005-02-12 19:35 UTC · Tiki post #3910 (reply to #0)''
<div style="white-space: pre-wrap">webmaster@lojban.org wrote:

&gt;The page BPFK gismu Proposal: kanpe was changed by rlpowell at Wed 09 of Feb, 2005 [19:03 UTC]
&gt;You can view the page by following this link:
&gt;http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=BPFK+gismu+Proposal%3A+kanpe
&gt;
&gt;You can view a diff back to the previous version by following this link:
&gt;http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-pagehistory.php?page=BPFK+gismu+Proposal%3A+kanpe&amp;diff2=1
&gt;
&gt;The new page content follows below.
&gt;***********************************************************
&gt;
&gt;[[Robin Powell|I]] propose the creation of a new gismu, kanpe.
&gt;
&gt;! Justification
&gt;
&gt;The notes for ''pacna'' suggest its use as "expect", but the keywords, and actual usage, make it clear that ''pacna'' is about desire as well as expectation.  The normal response to this would be to make a lujvo, but there are only about 3 words that have a place for the odds of something happening, and none of them help.  ''cu'o'' isn't subjective enough to be useful, and has no rafsi anyways.  The best lujvo I could come up with was something like nordjipa'a, which is '''incredibly''' long for such a simple concept.  Furthermore, we need to settle on whether ''pacna'' really can be used to mean "expect" without implying desire, so we're going to have to poke at the gismu list here no matter what we do.
&gt;
&gt;Therefore, I propose that we tweak pacna a tiny bit to make it clear that desire is always implied, and add the gismu ''kanpe'' (generated by Arnt and Cowan from the old gismu algorithm) meaning "expect" (without implication of desire).
&gt;
&gt;! Definition
&gt;
&gt;Based almost entirely on pacna.
&gt;
&gt;I don't know how to generate potential rafsi and evaluate them; I think this word is of high utility, though.  Could someone else take a look at that issue?
&gt;  
&gt;
No opinion at this point on the proposal.  If a rafsi is desired, then 
that should be factored into the gismu algorithm word selection.  I 
don't know how and when Arnt and Cowan generated words, but if the 
original program was used, there would be a list of multiple 
candidates.  What are the sources from the 6 languages?

I'll try to run the program on it, and see what comes up (note that the 
current weightings are slightly different from those of 1986, and 
running with different weightings also gives different answers).

lojbab</div>

== BPFK gismu Proposal: kanpe (Tiki thread #4767) ==