stories Numbering System

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21:57 <ksion> ni'o Any ideas about how to say "floor" (in the sense of building's floors) in lojban? We thought about {dinju senta} but I don't like {senta}.

21:59 <@Broca> loldi?

22:00 <@xalbo> {senta} doesn't seem too far off to me.

22:00 <rlpowell> loldi

22:00 <@xalbo> "floor" like "story"/"storey", I think is what's meant

22:00 <@xalbo> "fifth floor"

22:00 <rlpowell> Oooh.

22:01 <rlpowell> {senta} seems excellent.

22:01 <ksion> {loldi} is very malglico.

22:01 <treed> Very.

22:02 <@Broca> In Lojban, which dijysenta is the 1st dijysenta?

22:02 <treed> In Zelda I translated "level" as "stuzi" for lack of anything better, but senta wouldn't work for that either

22:02 <treed> Broca: pamoi dijysenta?

22:02 <rlpowell> ksion: For that usage, yes. Sorry.

22:03 <@Broca> Yes. Is it the one where you walk in from the street, or the story above that?

22:03 <rlpowell> {dijysenta} is what's in jbovlaste; I like it.

22:03 <rlpowell> Broca: The street level on, *please*.

22:03 <rlpowell> Counting from zero is obnoxious, pretty much always. It's just easier for computers.

22:03 <@Broca> rlpowell: I should hope so, but only because it's the one I'm used to.

22:04 <treed> rlpowell: It some countries, the "first story" is the first one above ground level.

22:04 <treed> This has nothing to do with computers.

22:04 <rlpowell> treed: So what's the ground level one?

22:04 <treed> Just ground level.

22:04 <treed> It's not a story.

22:04 <rlpowell> Aaaah. OK.

22:04 <rlpowell> Misunderstood, then.

22:04 <ksion> rlpowell: u'isai I'm surprised that you, as a programmer and geek, are frowning at counting from zero :)

22:04 <rlpowell> I thought the question was "should we count from zero?".

22:05 <treed> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Storey#Numbering

22:05 <rlpowell> I think the ground floor is pretty fucking clearly included in {dijysenta}

22:05 <treed> In most of Western continental Europe, floors are numbered as in Britain: the "first storey" or "first floor" is the next level above ground level. This system is used in Denmark but not in the other Scandinavian countries2 This scheme is also used in many of the Commonwealth nations (except Singapore and most of Canada), many former British colonies, and in many (but not all) Latin American countries, including Mexico and Brazil.

22:05 <rlpowell> So I don't think that problem pertains.

22:05 <rlpowell> Fascinating.

22:05 <@Broca> It seems intuitively obvious to me that the ground floor is in the same class of entities as, say, the fourth floor.

22:06 <rlpowell> Right. That's clearly true of {dijysenta}, IMO, regardless of whether it's true for English "floor" or "storey".

22:06 == remod [email protected] has joined #lojban

22:06 <ksion> We could use {dijyloldi} for the ground floor.

22:07 <vensa> why not have a specific term for ground floor: {loldijysenta}?

22:08 <@xalbo> If the ground floor is the first floor, do we number basements too? I'm sure they dijyloldi

22:09 <treed> In countries that use the European system, the ground floor is either marked 0, or with the initial letter of the local word for ground floor (G, E etc.), successive floors are then marked 1, 2 etc.

22:10 <treed> xalbo: They are loldi, but not dijyloldi.

22:10 <treed> IMO

22:10 <@xalbo> ugh. I meant they're dijysenta. How did I make that mistake?

22:11 == MayDaniel [email protected]/maydaniel has quit [[ ]]

22:11 <treed> er

22:11 <treed> senta

22:11 <treed> but not dijysenta

22:12 == Marenz_ has changed nick to Marenz

22:12 <treed> ni'ardijysenta maybe

22:13 <kribacr> You have died of dijysenta.

22:13 <_wtw_> While i'm young, and quite new to this, seems to me it's easiest to have a word for story/floor/arbitary level of height increment, or whatever, and number that increment...am i missing something? I think that's what Broca was getting at too.

22:14 <ksion> kribacr: Is that an STD?

22:15 <kribacr> We likely want something that is as simple as x1 is the x2th floor of building x3.

22:16 <ksion> That's {dijysenta}, expect the numbering.

22:17 <rlpowell> < kribacr> You have died of dijysenta. -- I think the joke is that it sounds like dysentary.

22:17 <rlpowell> (sp?)

22:20 <kribacr> Correct.

22:24 <_wtw_> Can we update the meaning of dijysenta? As i say, i'm new to this, and i'm not sure how the system works for creating lujvo meanings, but seems like all we need to do is revise the meaning to include numbering as x3. What's the protocol for creating lujvo meaning?

22:25 == dbrock [email protected] has joined #lojban

22:25 <rlpowell> Oh, for something simple like that, I'd say just update jbovlaste directly.

22:26 <rlpowell> Like, the in-place definition.

22:28 <_wtw_> Haha, i'd forgotten we could update jbovlaste ourselves. It doesn't go through checks?

22:30 == alyrik [email protected] has quit Ping timeout: 276 seconds

22:30 <rlpowell> Nope.

22:30 <rlpowell> It generates mail, though.

22:32 <_wtw_> <powertothepeople> Sweet, that's pretty good! </powertothepeople>

22:36 <Zarutian> "fourcandles/forkhandles" <- how does lojban prevent audio ambigiouty like that?

22:37 <@xalbo> Lojban was carefully designed to prevent that entirely. That's what the complex morphology rules are for.

22:38 <@xalbo> Editing the definition is easy. Getting people to agree on what the definition should be is the hard part.

22:39 <_wtw_> xalbo, i guess so.

22:39 == djanatyn-ppc [email protected] has joined #lojban

22:40 <kribacr> Zarutian: Like xalbo said - pure morphology always avoids this. It is very carefully set up so that this thing should never happen.

22:40 <@xalbo> In particular, there's jvajvo, the standard rules for constructing a place structure for a lujvo. Doesn't seem like a number belongs there, unless we add another root.

22:41 <@Broca> moi?

22:41 <@Broca> No, wait. That won't work.

22:42 <kribacr> Still talking about dijysenta?

22:42 <kribacr> Maybe {tcita} - because we're not always looking at numbered floors.

22:42 <@xalbo> Might work

22:45 <kribacr> li ci, le loldi