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User:And Rosta

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If you came here looking for words meaning ''and'', candidates are '''je, .ije, .e, ce, ce'o, fa'u, joi, ge, gu'e, gi'e, zi'e'''.
== And Rosta ==
<!--I've just noticed that if you google for me, this is the first page that comes up. -->You can contact me [mailto:arosta@uclan.ac.uk thus].
If you feel compelled to annotate this page, please don't mess up the layout too much. Use a perspicuous layout that does not destroy the integrity of the original text.
I belong to the Conlanger class of Lojbanist, i.e. I joined in 1991 as a result of conlang afficionadodom (see [[New Growth Lojbanist|New Growth Lojbanist]]). I am therefore one of the [['Tweeners|'tweeners]]. I am a member of [[LLG|LLG]] since 2001. I am one of the [[hardliners|hardliners]] -- perhaps the hardest!
I mean to collect together some links to Lojban poems & translations, but it's a bit of a struggle finding them in the list archives.
* [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9411/msg00274.html Limerick 'lo ni fa le vi nanmu cu pinji']
** with a correction [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9412/msg00318.html there], [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9412/msg00007.html there]
 
* aha, here's [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9412/msg00097.html a corrected version] with a bonus limerick to boot
* [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9412/msg00099.html and Jorge's limerick reply]
 
* [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9412/msg00080.html more limericks by me & Jorge, plus one of his Lojban limericks rendered as an English limerick by me]
** [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9412/msg00082.html Jorge in riposte]
* I can't find my first haiku in the archives, nor my translation into English of Jorge's Thanksgiving poem
* My start at a translation of ''[[The Importance of Being Earnest|The Importance of Being Earnest]]''.
 
* Fragmentary notes, obsolete or incomplete
** [[On the meaning of 'ro broda cu brode'|On the meaning of 'ro broda cu brode']]
==== Manifesto (cf that in [[Jay Kominek|Jay Kominek]]) ====
 
* Lojban is interesting because it is the most sophisticated published [[engelang|engineered language]].
* Engineered languages are interesting in the way that any engineering is, especially when it tries to improve on biology (cf. robotics). Part of the interest is that it tells us more about the biology, and part of the interest is that we have a human desire to improve our tools. I am interested in discovering how (and whether) the tool of natural language can be improved upon. (I don't think Lojban itself is an improvement on, say, English, but I do believe in the viability of designing a language that is better than any natural language. (Better by some set of relatively objective criteria that I may enumerate here at a future time.]
 
* Lojban usage is valuable because it tests/proves the language design. Even if your only goal is the design itself, part of the process of optimizing the design is to test prototypes in actual use.
* Valuable usage needs to pay scrupulous attention to a grammar. What is important is not to make ourselves understood (-- for when we succeed in making ourselves understood that is testimony only to the brilliance of the mind's pragmatic powers; it tells us little about the language), but to say exactly what we intend to say -- to produce sentences whose meaning is exactly the meaning we intended to encode.
 
* I follow a personal policy of making no conscious efforts to learn Lojban, and I am rarely moved to read or write or speak it. Consequently there are big gaps in my knowledge, especially in the gismu and some of the less interesting selmaho. The amount of Lojban that I've written over the years is in fact surprisingly large, given my avowed lack of motivation to use Lojban.
 
* Were it up to me, Lojban would never have been baselined. The process of improving the design would be ongoing and effectively never-ending.
* However, 99% of Lojbanists [not an unreasonable estimate] wanted the baseline. Accordingly, on democratic grounds I am now firmly in favour of the official grammar being baselined. Indeed, I am in favour of a permanent baseline. I think the LLG should not put its stamp of approval on any further revisions.
 
* At the same time, I am in favour of exploring, through design and usage, various changes to the baseline, so long as these changes are understood to be unofficial.
* Indeed, while I get very impatient with sloppy usage that doesn't say what it is intended to (even if it gets understood correctly), and while I get equally impatient with sloppy or solecistic usage that gets entrenched and conventionalized through sheer frequency of use, I am in favour of anything that subverts the baseline, on the grounds that I see no virtue in it except the simple fact that 99% of Lojbanists wanted it.
** In a sense, then, I'm quite sympathetic to the Naturalists, in that they want Lojban to evolve naturally, much as a pidgin would, and for the resulting language to be defined, as with a natlang, by the usage and/or idiolects of the speakers themselves. What makes me sympathetic to this is that it makes the baseline an irrelevance, an artefact of solely historical interest. Of course, I differ from the Naturalists in wishing for the language to continue to be engineered, and for usage to scrupulously follow an explicit grammar.
** Further of my relevant opinions are given under [[On the baseline conformance imperative|On the baseline conformance imperative]].
 
* Lojban's virtues as a language are relative rather than absolute. As I said above, it is the most sophisticated published [[engelang|Engelang]], but it has the potential for enormous improvement. By 'enormous improvement' I mean starting again from scratch, but with the benefit of the experience gained from Lojban. I have been asked "Well why don't you go off and create a better language, then?" The answer is that I have, but that doesn't stop Lojban being the most sophisticated engelang that has been published and has a small community of experts focused around it. Hence the inadequacy of Lojban as a language design does not diminish its interest.
==='''Below is a copy of parts of [[Jay Kominek|Jay's manifesto]] with some comments from me (in italics) interspersed.'''===
Since these pages are reference material, here is a quick reference guide to my positions on Lojban policy.
Forum:Admin, Forum:CantDelete, Forum:CantEdit, Forum:CantPost, Forum:CantSearch, Forum:CantView, Forum:Mod, Forum:NoSigs, Translators, Users, Bureaucrats, forumadmin, staff, Administrators, translate-proofr, twitter, uploader, Widget editors
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