using Undefined Gismu as Names
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tomoj | why shouldn't morphological gismu that aren't actually gismu be acceptable names? |
vensa | who said they shouldnt? |
tomoj | like {la tomjo |
}
vensa | tomoj: who said you cant? I'm all for it |
tomoj | uhh it is not orthodox |
vensa | tomoj: says who? maybe nobody thought of it yet I like it |
lindar | People have. What if that name ends up getting used? |
tomoj | then you wind up with a probably interesting description-based name |
vensa | yep |
selckiku | i'll say it, i don't think that's a sensible thing to do it slightly confuses me and it's new, so i'm opposed to it |
tomoj | me neither, now that I think about it |
vensa | just like what if your name ends up being a meaningful rafsi combination selckiku: you opposed to new things in general? |
tomoj | the grammar says you can stick a selbri after LA |
vensa | or just things that confuse you ? :P |
lindar | Like what if Broca actually uses {la broca}, and then in a year suddenly we start a gismu {broca} that means "x1 is a puss/wimp that can't do x2 and licks giant sweaty balls x3 while being sodomised in orifice x4 by big sloppy dong x5.". |
tomoj | if *{tomjo} counts as a selbri, then I should be able to use it outside of names too |
vensa | tomoj: you CAN it just want make SEMANTIC sense .u'i lindar |
lindar | Then suddenly he's named "the pussy that can't do shit and licks giant sweaty balls while being sodomised by a big sloppy dong.". That's my only issue, really. |
selckiku | i'm not really opposed to new things, i was kidding or something but honestly that doesn't make much sense to me... description names are lojban words, not just random lojbanny shaped thingies |
vensa | lindar: <vensa> just like what if your name ends up being a meaningful rafsi combination |
lindar | Sure, something like that. |
vensa | lindar: so it can happen to cmelva too |
[09:12] * lindar is actually named Lindar, and finds the coincidence hilarious.
vensa | valsi affix: lin |
valsi | no results. http://vlasisku.lojban.org/affix%3A+lin |
vensa | valsi affix: dar |
valsi | no results. http://vlasisku.lojban.org/affix%3A+dar |
selckiku | half of my name "mungodjelis" was jvocme so i made that lujvo, djelisri |
tomoj | it can't happen to cmevla |
vensa | valsi affix:dar |
valsi | {{{2}}} |
vensa | "chain far"! heh |
selckiku | lindar, how'd u get a name like "Lindar" anyway? where's that from? |
lindar | Lord of the Rings. >_> |
tomoj | if it's a cmevla, any meaning you associate to it as a rafsi chain is not fixed by the language |
vensa | tomoj: y not. just showed you |
selckiku | jvocme are a tradition, though... they're not really quite meaningless |
tomoj | the language doesn't say that cmevla that look like rafsi components have anything to do with the meanings of the valsi for those rafsi |
selckiku | it's not meaningless that camgusmis is named "camgusmis", i think about bright lights and fame every time i say it |
tomoj | right it's only by suggestion |
vensa | tomoj: I recall seeing that it does |
tomoj | you can tell that their name looks like a rafsi chain and know that they did this on purpose but really the language is mute on the subject |
vensa | perhaps but it is a PLAUSIBLE option |
selckiku | i tried to get everyone to call them "jvosmicmevla" but people are saying "jvocme" instead b/c they don't like clajvo, o well |
vensa | so would it only be PLAUSIBLE that {broca} chose his name according to the gismu of "pussy" |
Twey | o.@ |
selckiku | it doesn't have denotative meaning, but it has some connotative meaning |
tomoj | yeah |
vensa | whatever that means |
lindar | We're discussing two different things here. |
vensa | I'm putting this in the discussions section later :) |
lindar | I was saying that if somebody names themselves $namethatisanundefinedgismu and then we define that gismu... then what? |
vensa | selckiku: yes, but with english font lindar: what difference is that from {lindar} that happens to be a rafsi chain? |
tomoj | then there name acquires a selbri meaning, so what? |
vensa | maybe its on purpose, maybe not |
@Broca | If someone calls themselves $namethatisundefinedgismu _in Lojban_, they're doing it wrong. |
tomoj | er, their |
selckiku | it's so multilingual in here! next thing you know we'll actually be culturally neutral |
lindar | vensa: Because THOSE names have incidental meaning. |
tomoj | Broca: say {tomjo |
}
vensa | lindar: IMO a gismu name can be incidental as wel as long as it's "la selbri" |
lindar | If I name myself {donri} then I'm not going to be an asshole and say, "No, I'm not called 'Day', it's just 'donri' the letters.". |
vensa | maybe I call myself {la ganxo} because I like the sound of it :) |
lindar | Yeah, no. Please adhere to a policy of non-gluteality. |
tomoj | wait, yeah or no? |
vensa | lindar: some people call their children English names, based solely on the sound, without even knowing the def sometimes |
lindar | If my name was "Shite", it means "Shite". |
vensa | ctino: he ivrit shelcha metzuyenet |
ctino | selckiku: it's nice isn't it? lojban actually has more people from different cultures than I realized. |
selckiku | someday there'll be thousands of jbopre, and all of the gismu will have been someone's name sometime |
vensa | tomoj: I suspect the Yeah was cinical (lindarP) :) |
lindar | If my name is "Rose", then it's fucking "Rose". If my name is "Blue" then my name is "Blue". If your name is {xalbo} then your name is actually {xalbo}. Do you see what I'm saying? |
vensa | lindar: no |
lindar | Words have definitions, regardless of whether or not they're also names. |
selckiku | i think a lot about why la xalbo chose "xalbo" and what it means to him |
lindar | You don't get to detach the meaning just because you like the -sound- of the name. |
vensa | lindar: yes |
selckiku | it's a very interesting choice of name |
ctino | vensa: todah, haha. |
lindar | Stop saying no and yes. There's no scale set. It's not a yes or no question. |
vensa | lindar: but that doesnt mean the definition was intended by the name chooser. agreed? |
lindar | >_> In this case, yes it fucking does. |
vensa | what is "this case"?! |
lindar | Ignore all of the old names like "john" and "mary" and shit that have a meaning but not in English. If you name your kid "Crystal", the kid's name is fucking "Crystal". It's a word in English with a meaning. |
vensa | lindar: someone can call their child "auburn" without knowing it's a color yes it has a meaning |
lindar | FUCK those people. They shouldn't be allowed to breed. |
vensa | but some word's meaning are less clear .u'isai |
lindar | Bro, Lojban here. The words are very clear. |
vensa | all I'm saying is that meaning is not always transparent |
selckiku | i remember when there was hardly anyone named a gismu |
vensa | just like you can have nicknames who's original name isnt clear |
lindar | Dude, your name in English is "Springtime". |
selckiku | i used to wonder "why don't people choose gismu names? all the gismu are available!" |
lindar | Guess what it means? |
vensa | e.g.: larry is short for lawrence. did you know that? |
lindar | Yes. |
ksion | coi la kucli |
ctino | The only reason I use a gismu name is because my alias is Amber Shadow and I didn't want to lojbanize it :3 |
ksion | coi rodo .enai la lindar no'u se fanza u'i |
selckiku | "kucli" is a nice gi'ucme i've always loved the word "kucli" |
tomoj | so some names have associated meanings |
lindar | In Lojban, {selckiku} ACTUALLY means means "lock". |
tomoj | why does that mean we shouldn't be allowed to use names with no associated meaning? |
vensa | lindar: are you disagreeing with me when it comes to lojban only? or in english as well? |
tomoj | cmevla are just that way |
selckiku | as does "stela", so my name is Lock Lock :D |
tomoj | why not also selbri-shaped names? |
vensa | yes! tomoj +1 |
lindar | >_> |
ctino | selckiku: I figured that out today xD |
selckiku | there's no meaning associated with "clsn".. that's a neat shape for a name |
lindar | The FACT of the matter is that it is DEFINED as "The one named...". |
tomoj | also, jabberwocky a lojban translation of jabberwocky should use morphological selbri that aren't actual selbri |
lindar | So {la xalbo} is unambiguously DEFINED as "The one named 'levitous-thing'.". That's what it means. |
tomoj | perhaps some morphological cmavo and fu'ivla too? |
lindar | You don't get to say, "Ah, no, I don't feel like doing that. I want my name to be a gismu, but I'm special, so it doesn't actually mean that for me.". |
vensa | lindar: all im saying is that it doesnt neccessarily mean that {la xalbo} is aware of the meaning of his name, or wether he chose it BECAUSE of its meaning |
tomoj | sure you do |
lindar | la donri is "The one named 'Day'.". |
vensa | of course he did in this case |
tomoj | we get to pick our own names |
vensa | but it doesnt have to be |
lindar | >_> |
selckiku | the translation of jabberwocky we have is by xorxes right? |
lindar | YES IT DOES |
tomoj | if I want to be named 'fatass', why can't I be? |
lindar | THAT'S HOW IT'S FUCKING WRITTEN IN THE BOOK THAT TELLS US HOW TO SPEAK LOJBAN IT -DOES- HAVE TO BE |
vensa | lindar: where?! |
tomoj | jeebus |
selckiku | WHY ARE WE YELLING |
tomoj | take a chill pill |
ctino | BECAUSE YELLING IS FUN |
vensa | lindar: the book doesnt tell us what to THINK |
ctino | u'i |
tomoj | there's some candy like tic-tacs called "chill", lol |
ctino | I love tic-tacs. |
vensa | seems like any discussion involving me and lindar can never come to an end :) |
ctino | Haha. |
vensa | or is it just lindar and anybody? :P or me and anybody? |
ctino | Lindar and anybody. |
tomoj | unstoppable force + immovable object |
Twey | ctino: What do you think of that lindar and vensa, eh, eh? |
vensa | I'm pretty stubborn myself :) tomoj u'isai |
ctino | Twey: Entertaining. |
vensa | :) lindar is quite so I suspect he actually went to the books *quiet |
ctino | Probably. I know I would have. |
vensa | when he comes back, all hell will break out |
ctino | Haha. The quiet before the storm. |
vensa | what happens if I leave before he comes back? :P |
ctino | >_> |
vensa | .y shhhhh... "i'm not here..." |
ctino | So what's the synopsis of this debate? |
vensa | we'll have to wait for lindar to return for that |
ksion | vensa: That's mostly because is mutce certu loka fanza ;) |
vensa | it's not over till the british elf screams |
ksion | vensa: lindar is* |
ctino | xD |
tomoj | wat |
vensa | ksion: :) |
lindar | What's up now? |
ctino | I wanna know what the synopsis of your debate is. |
lindar | {{{2}}} |
ctino | Hm. Okay, thanks. |
tomoj | certainly that's conceivable |