using Undefined Gismu as Names

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tomoj why shouldn't morphological gismu that aren't actually gismu be acceptable names?
like la tomjo
vensa tomoj: who said you cant?
I'm all for it
tomoj uhh
it is not orthodox
vensa tomoj: says who?
maybe nobody thought of it yet
I like it
lindar People have.
What if that name ends up getting used?
tomoj then you wind up with a probably interesting description-based name
vensa yep
selckiku i'll say it, i don't think that's a sensible thing to do
it slightly confuses me and it's new, so i'm opposed to it
tomoj me neither, now that I think about it
vensa just like what if your name ends up being a meaningful rafsi combination
selckiku: you opposed to new things in general?
tomoj the grammar says you can stick a selbri after LA
vensa or just things that confuse you ? :P
lindar Like what if Broca actually uses la broca, and then in a year suddenly we start a gismu broca that means "x1 is a puss/wimp that can't do x2 and licks giant sweaty balls x3 while being sodomised in orifice x4 by big sloppy dong x5.".
tomoj if *tomjo counts as a selbri, then I should be able to use it outside of names too
vensa tomoj: you CAN
it just want make SEMANTIC sense
.u'i lindar
lindar Then suddenly he's named "the pussy that can't do shit and licks giant sweaty balls while being sodomised by a big sloppy dong.".
That's my only issue, really.
selckiku i'm not really opposed to new things, i was kidding or something
but honestly that doesn't make much sense to me... description names are lojban words, not just random lojbanny shaped thingies
vensa lindar: <vensa> just like what if your name ends up being a meaningful rafsi combination
lindar Sure, something like that.
vensa lindar: so it can happen to cmevla too
lindar lindar is actually named Lindar, and finds the coincidence hilarious.
vensa valsi affix: lin
valsi no results. http://vlasisku.lojban.org/affix%3A+lin
vensa valsi affix: dar
valsi no results. http://vlasisku.lojban.org/affix%3A+dar
selckiku half of my name "mungodjelis" was jvocme so i made that lujvo, djelisri
tomoj it can't happen to cmevla
vensa valsi affix:dar
valsi linsi = x1 is a length of chain/links of material x2 with link properties x3.
darno = x1 is far/distant from x2 in property x3 (ka).
vensa "chain far"!
heh
selckiku lindar, how'd u get a name like "Lindar" anyway? where's that from?
lindar Lord of the Rings. >_>
tomoj if it's a cmevla, any meaning you associate to it as a rafsi chain is not fixed by the language
vensa tomoj: y not. just showed you
selckiku jvocme are a tradition, though... they're not really quite meaningless
tomoj the language doesn't say that cmevla that look like rafsi components have anything to do with the meanings of the valsi for those rafsi
selckiku it's not meaningless that camgusmis is named "camgusmis", i think about bright lights and fame every time i say it
tomoj right
it's only by suggestion
vensa tomoj: I recall seeing that it does
tomoj you can tell that their name looks like a rafsi chain and know that they did this on purpose
but really the language is mute on the subject
vensa perhaps
but it is a PLAUSIBLE option
selckiku i tried to get everyone to call them "jvosmicmevla" but people are saying "jvocme" instead b/c they don't like clajvo, o well
vensa so would it only be PLAUSIBLE that broca chose his name according to the gismu of "pussy"
Twey o.@
selckiku it doesn't have denotative meaning, but it has some connotative meaning
tomoj yeah
vensa whatever that means
lindar We're discussing two different things here.
vensa I'm putting this in the discussions section later :)
lindar I was saying that if somebody names themselves $namethatisanundefinedgismu and then we define that gismu... then what?
vensa selckiku: yes, but with english font
lindar: what difference is that from lindar that happens to be a rafsi chain?
tomoj then there name acquires a selbri meaning, so what?
vensa maybe its on purpose, maybe not
Broca If someone calls themselves $namethatisundefinedgismu _in Lojban_, they're doing it wrong.
tomoj er, their
selckiku it's so multilingual in here! next thing you know we'll actually be culturally neutral
lindar vensa: Because THOSE names have incidental meaning.
tomoj Broca: say tomjo
vensa lindar: IMO a gismu name can be incidental as wel
as long as it's "la selbri"
lindar If I name myself donri then I'm not going to be an asshole and say, "No, I'm not called 'Day', it's just 'donri' the letters.".
vensa maybe I call myself la ganxo because I like the sound of it :)
lindar Yeah, no.
Please adhere to a policy of non-gluteality.
tomoj wait, yeah or no?
vensa lindar: some people call their children English names, based solely on the sound, without even knowing the def sometimes
lindar If my name was "Shite", it means "Shite".
vensa ctino: he ivrit shelcha metzuyenet
ctino selckiku: it's nice isn't it? lojban actually has more people from different cultures than I realized.
selckiku someday there'll be thousands of jbopre, and all of the gismu will have been someone's name sometime
vensa tomoj: I suspect the Yeah was cinical (lindarP) :)
lindar If my name is "Rose", then it's fucking "Rose". If my name is "Blue" then my name is "Blue". If your name is xalbo then your name is actually xalbo. Do you see what I'm saying?
vensa lindar: no
lindar Words have definitions, regardless of whether or not they're also names.
selckiku i think a lot about why la xalbo chose "xalbo" and what it means to him
lindar You don't get to detach the meaning just because you like the -sound- of the name.
vensa lindar: yes
selckiku it's a very interesting choice of name
ctino vensa: todah, haha.
lindar Stop saying no and yes. There's no scale set. It's not a yes or no question.
vensa lindar: but that doesnt mean the definition was intended by the name chooser. agreed?
lindar >_> In this case, yes it fucking does.
vensa what is "this case"?!
lindar Ignore all of the old names like "john" and "mary" and shit that have a meaning but not in English. If you name your kid "Crystal", the kid's name is fucking "Crystal".
It's a word in English with a meaning.
vensa lindar: someone can call their child "auburn" without knowing it's a color
yes it has a meaning
lindar FUCK those people. They shouldn't be allowed to breed.
vensa but some word's meaning are less clear
.u'isai
lindar Bro, Lojban here.
The words are very clear.
vensa all I'm saying is that meaning is not always transparent
selckiku i remember when there was hardly anyone named a gismu
vensa just like you can have nicknames who's original name isnt clear
lindar Dude, your name in English is "Springtime".
selckiku i used to wonder "why don't people choose gismu names? all the gismu are available!"
lindar Guess what it means?
vensa e.g.: larry is short for lawrence. did you know that?
lindar Yes.
ksion coi la kucli
ctino The only reason I use a gismu name is because my alias is Amber Shadow and I didn't want to lojbanize it :3
ksion coi rodo .enai la lindar no'u se fanza u'i
selckiku "kucli" is a nice gi'ucme
i've always loved the word "kucli"
tomoj so some names have associated meanings
lindar In Lojban, selckiku ACTUALLY means means "lock".
tomoj why does that mean we shouldn't be allowed to use names with no associated meaning?
vensa lindar: are you disagreeing with me when it comes to lojban only? or in english as well?
tomoj cmevla are just that way
selckiku as does "stela", so my name is Lock Lock :D
tomoj why not also selbri-shaped names?
vensa yes! tomoj +1
lindar >_>
ctino selckiku: I figured that out today xD
selckiku there's no meaning associated with "clsn".. that's a neat shape for a name
lindar The FACT of the matter is that it is DEFINED as "The one named...".
tomoj also, jabberwocky
a lojban translation of jabberwocky should use morphological selbri that aren't actual selbri
lindar So la xalbo is unambiguously DEFINED as "The one named 'levitous-thing'.". That's what it means.
tomoj perhaps some morphological cmavo and fu'ivla too?
lindar You don't get to say, "Ah, no, I don't feel like doing that. I want my name to be a gismu, but I'm special, so it doesn't actually mean that for me.".
vensa lindar: all im saying is that it doesnt neccessarily mean that la xalbo is aware of the meaning of his name, or wether he chose it BECAUSE of its meaning
tomoj sure you do
lindar la donri is "The one named 'Day'.".
vensa of course he did in this case
tomoj we get to pick our own names
vensa but it doesnt have to be
lindar >_>
selckiku the translation of jabberwocky we have is by xorxes right?
lindar YES IT DOES
tomoj if I want to be named 'fatass', why can't I be?
lindar THAT'S HOW IT'S FUCKING WRITTEN IN THE BOOK THAT TELLS US HOW TO SPEAK LOJBAN
IT -DOES- HAVE TO BE
vensa lindar: where?!
tomoj jeebus
selckiku WHY ARE WE YELLING
tomoj take a chill pill
ctino BECAUSE YELLING IS FUN
vensa lindar: the book doesnt tell us what to THINK
ctino u'i
tomoj there's some candy like tic-tacs called "chill", lol
ctino I love tic-tacs.
vensa seems like any discussion involving me and lindar can never come to an end :)
ctino Haha.
vensa or is it just lindar and anybody? :P
or me and anybody?
ctino Lindar and anybody.
tomoj unstoppable force + immovable object
Twey ctino: What do you think of that lindar and vensa, eh, eh?
vensa I'm pretty stubborn myself :)
tomoj u'isai
ctino Twey: Entertaining.
vensa :)
lindar is quite so I suspect he actually went to the books
*quiet
ctino Probably.
I know I would have.
vensa when he comes back, all hell will break out
ctino Haha.
The quiet before the storm.
vensa what happens if I leave before he comes back? :P
ctino >_>
vensa .y
shhhhh... "i'm not here..."
ctino So what's the synopsis of this debate?
vensa we'll have to wait for lindar to return for that
ksion vensa: That's mostly because is mutce certu loka fanza ;)
vensa it's not over till the british elf screams
ksion vensa: lindar is*
ctino xD
tomoj wat
vensa ksion: :)
lindar What's up now?
ctino I wanna know what the synopsis of your debate is.
lindar btw: Not to be picky/whiney or anything, but I would appreciate the favour of you referring to be as a spivvak. =/
*to me as
Short version: If you have a brivla name, you picked it. It always has the meaning. You can't divorce a gismu from the meaning just because it's a name. That's like naming a kid "Hope" and then saying, "It's a really cool name, but I never looked it up to find out what it means.".
ctino Hm. Okay, thanks.
tomoj certainly that's conceivable