View source for using Undefined Gismu as Names

{{irci|tomoj|why shouldn't morphological gismu that aren't actually gismu be acceptable names?<br/>like '''la tomjo}}'''
{{irci|vensa|tomoj: who said you cant?<br/>I'm all for it}}
{{irci|tomoj|uhh<br/>it is not orthodox}}
{{irci|vensa|tomoj: says who?<br/>maybe nobody thought of it yet<br/>I like it}}
{{irci|lindar|People have.<br/>What if that name ends up getting used?}}
{{irci|tomoj|then you wind up with a probably interesting description-based name}}
{{irci|vensa|yep}}
{{irci|selckiku|i'll say it, i don't think that's a sensible thing to do<br/>it slightly confuses me and it's new, so i'm opposed to it}}
{{irci|tomoj|me neither, now that I think about it}}
{{irci|vensa|just like what if your name ends up being a meaningful rafsi combination<br/>selckiku: you opposed to new things in general?}}
{{irci|tomoj|the grammar says you can stick a selbri after LA}}
{{irci|vensa|or just things that confuse you ? :P}}
{{irci|lindar|Like what if Broca actually uses '''la broca''', and then in a year suddenly we start a gismu '''broca''' that means "x1 is a puss/wimp that can't do x2 and licks giant sweaty balls x3 while being sodomised in orifice x4 by big sloppy dong x5.".}}
{{irci|tomoj|if *'''tomjo''' counts as a selbri, then I should be able to use it outside of names too}}
{{irci|vensa|tomoj: you CAN<br/>it just want make SEMANTIC sense<br/>.u'i lindar}}
{{irci|lindar|Then suddenly he's named "the pussy that can't do shit and licks giant sweaty balls while being sodomised by a big sloppy dong.".<br/>That's my only issue, really.}}
{{irci|selckiku|i'm not really opposed to new things, i was kidding or something<br/>but honestly that doesn't make much sense to me... description names are lojban words, not just random lojbanny shaped thingies}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: <vensa> just like what if your name ends up being a meaningful rafsi combination}}
{{irci|lindar|Sure, something like that.}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: so it can happen to cmevla too}}
{{irci|lindar|''lindar is actually named Lindar, and finds the coincidence hilarious.''}}
{{irci|vensa|valsi affix: lin}}
{{irci|valsi|no results. http://vlasisku.lojban.org/affix%3A+lin}}
{{irci|vensa|valsi affix: dar}}
{{irci|valsi|no results. http://vlasisku.lojban.org/affix%3A+dar}}
{{irci|selckiku|half of my name "mungodjelis" was jvocme so i made that lujvo, djelisri}}
{{irci|tomoj|it can't happen to cmevla}}
{{irci|vensa|valsi affix:dar}}
{{irci|valsi|linsi {{=}} x1 is a length of chain/links of material x2 with link properties x3.<br/>darno {{=}} x1 is far/distant from x2 in property x3 (ka).}}
{{irci|vensa|"chain far"!<br/>heh}}
{{irci|selckiku|lindar, how'd u get a name like "Lindar" anyway?  where's that from?}}
{{irci|lindar|Lord of the Rings. >_>}}
{{irci|tomoj|if it's a cmevla, any meaning you associate to it as a rafsi chain is not fixed by the language}}
{{irci|vensa|tomoj: y not. just showed you}}
{{irci|selckiku|jvocme are a tradition, though... they're not really quite meaningless}}
{{irci|tomoj|the language doesn't say that cmevla that look like rafsi components have anything to do with the meanings of the valsi for those rafsi}}
{{irci|selckiku|it's not meaningless that camgusmis is named "camgusmis", i think about bright lights and fame every time i say it}}
{{irci|tomoj|right<br/>it's only by suggestion}}
{{irci|vensa|tomoj: I recall seeing that it does}}
{{irci|tomoj|you can tell that their name looks like a rafsi chain and know that they did this on purpose<br/>but really the language is mute on the subject}}
{{irci|vensa|perhaps<br/>but it is a PLAUSIBLE option}}
{{irci|selckiku|i tried to get everyone to call them "jvosmicmevla" but people are saying "jvocme" instead b/c they don't like clajvo, o well}}
{{irci|vensa|so would it only be PLAUSIBLE that '''broca''' chose his name according to the gismu of "pussy"}}
{{irci|Twey|o.@}}
{{irci|selckiku|it doesn't have denotative meaning, but it has some connotative meaning}}
{{irci|tomoj|yeah}}
{{irci|vensa|whatever that means}}
{{irci|lindar|We're discussing two different things here.}}
{{irci|vensa|I'm putting this in the discussions section later :)}}
{{irci|lindar|I was saying that if somebody names themselves $namethatisanundefinedgismu and then we define that gismu... then what?}}
{{irci|vensa|selckiku: yes, but with english font<br/>lindar: what difference is that from '''lindar''' that happens to be a rafsi chain?}}
{{irci|tomoj|then there name acquires a selbri meaning, so what?}}
{{irci|vensa|maybe its on purpose, maybe not}}
{{irci|Broca|If someone calls themselves $namethatisundefinedgismu _in Lojban_, they're doing it wrong.}}
{{irci|tomoj|er, their}}
{{irci|selckiku|it's so multilingual in here!  next thing you know we'll actually be culturally neutral}}
{{irci|lindar|vensa: Because THOSE names have incidental meaning.}}
{{irci|tomoj|Broca: say '''tomjo}}'''
{{irci|vensa|lindar: IMO a gismu name can be incidental as wel<br/>as long as it's "la selbri"}}
{{irci|lindar|If I name myself '''donri''' then I'm not going to be an asshole and say, "No, I'm not called 'Day', it's just 'donri' the letters.".}}
{{irci|vensa|maybe I call myself '''la ganxo''' because I like the sound of it :)}}
{{irci|lindar|Yeah, no.<br/>Please adhere to a policy of non-gluteality.}}
{{irci|tomoj|wait, yeah or no?}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: some people call their children English names, based solely on the sound, without even knowing the def sometimes}}
{{irci|lindar|If my name was "Shite", it means "Shite".}}
{{irci|vensa|ctino: he ivrit shelcha metzuyenet}}
{{irci|ctino|selckiku: it's nice isn't it? lojban actually has more people from different cultures than I realized.}}
{{irci|selckiku|someday there'll be thousands of jbopre, and all of the gismu will have been someone's name sometime}}
{{irci|vensa|tomoj: I suspect the Yeah was cinical (lindarP) :)}}
{{irci|lindar|If my name is "Rose", then it's fucking "Rose". If my name is "Blue" then my name is "Blue". If your name is '''xalbo''' then your name is actually '''xalbo'''. Do you see what I'm saying?}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: no}}
{{irci|lindar|Words have definitions, regardless of whether or not they're also names.}}
{{irci|selckiku|i think a lot about why la xalbo chose "xalbo" and what it means to him}}
{{irci|lindar|You don't get to detach the meaning just because you like the -sound- of the name.}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: yes}}
{{irci|selckiku|it's a very interesting choice of name}}
{{irci|ctino|vensa: todah, haha.}}
{{irci|lindar|Stop saying no and yes. There's no scale set. It's not a yes or no question.}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: but that doesnt mean the definition was intended by the name chooser. agreed?}}
{{irci|lindar|>_> In this case, yes it fucking does.}}
{{irci|vensa|what is "this case"?!}}
{{irci|lindar|Ignore all of the old names like "john" and "mary" and shit that have a meaning but not in English. If you name your kid "Crystal", the kid's name is fucking "Crystal".<br/>It's a word in English with a meaning.}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: someone can call their child "auburn" without knowing it's a color<br/>yes it has a meaning}}
{{irci|lindar|FUCK those people. They shouldn't be allowed to breed.}}
{{irci|vensa|but some word's meaning are less clear<br/>.u'isai}}
{{irci|lindar|Bro, Lojban here.<br/>The words are very clear.}}
{{irci|vensa|all I'm saying is that meaning is not always transparent}}
{{irci|selckiku|i remember when there was hardly anyone named a gismu}}
{{irci|vensa|just like you can have nicknames who's original name isnt clear}}
{{irci|lindar|Dude, your name in English is "Springtime".}}
{{irci|selckiku|i used to wonder "why don't people choose gismu names?  all the gismu are available!"}}
{{irci|lindar|Guess what it means?}}
{{irci|vensa|e.g.: larry is short for lawrence. did you know that?}}
{{irci|lindar|Yes.}}
{{irci|ksion|coi la kucli}}
{{irci|ctino|The only reason I use a gismu name is because my alias is Amber Shadow and I didn't want to lojbanize it :3}}
{{irci|ksion|coi rodo .enai la lindar no'u se fanza u'i}}
{{irci|selckiku|"kucli" is a nice gi'ucme<br/>i've always loved the word "kucli"}}
{{irci|tomoj|so some names have associated meanings}}
{{irci|lindar|In Lojban, '''selckiku''' ACTUALLY means means "lock".}}
{{irci|tomoj|why does that mean we shouldn't be allowed to use names with no associated meaning?}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: are you disagreeing with me when it comes to lojban only? or in english as well?}}
{{irci|tomoj|cmevla are just that way}}
{{irci|selckiku|as does "stela", so my name is Lock Lock :D}}
{{irci|tomoj|why not also selbri-shaped names?}}
{{irci|vensa|yes! tomoj +1}}
{{irci|lindar|>_>}}
{{irci|ctino|selckiku: I figured that out today xD}}
{{irci|selckiku|there's no meaning associated with "clsn".. that's a neat shape for a name}}
{{irci|lindar|The FACT of the matter is that it is DEFINED as "The one named...".}}
{{irci|tomoj|also, jabberwocky<br/>a lojban translation of jabberwocky should use morphological selbri that aren't actual selbri}}
{{irci|lindar|So '''la xalbo''' is unambiguously DEFINED as "The one named 'levitous-thing'.". That's what it means.}}
{{irci|tomoj|perhaps some morphological cmavo and fu'ivla too?}}
{{irci|lindar|You don't get to say, "Ah, no, I don't feel like doing that. I want my name to be a gismu, but I'm special, so it doesn't actually mean that for me.".}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: all im saying is that it doesnt neccessarily mean that '''la xalbo''' is aware of the meaning of his name, or wether he chose it BECAUSE of its meaning}}
{{irci|tomoj|sure you do}}
{{irci|lindar|la donri is "The one named 'Day'.".}}
{{irci|vensa|of course he did in this case}}
{{irci|tomoj|we get to pick our own names}}
{{irci|vensa|but it doesnt have to be}}
{{irci|lindar|>_>}}
{{irci|selckiku|the translation of jabberwocky we have is by xorxes right?}}
{{irci|lindar|YES IT DOES}}
{{irci|tomoj|if I want to be named 'fatass', why can't I be?}}
{{irci|lindar|THAT'S HOW IT'S FUCKING WRITTEN IN THE BOOK THAT TELLS US HOW TO SPEAK LOJBAN<br/>IT -DOES- HAVE TO BE}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: where?!}}
{{irci|tomoj|jeebus}}
{{irci|selckiku|WHY ARE WE YELLING}}
{{irci|tomoj|take a chill pill}}
{{irci|ctino|BECAUSE YELLING IS FUN}}
{{irci|vensa|lindar: the book doesnt tell us what to THINK}}
{{irci|ctino|u'i}}
{{irci|tomoj|there's some candy like tic-tacs called "chill", lol}}
{{irci|ctino|I love tic-tacs.}}
{{irci|vensa|seems like any discussion involving me and lindar can never come to an end :)}}
{{irci|ctino|Haha.}}
{{irci|vensa|or is it just lindar and anybody? :P<br/>or me and anybody?}}
{{irci|ctino|Lindar and anybody.}}
{{irci|tomoj|unstoppable force + immovable object}}
{{irci|Twey|ctino: What do you think of that lindar and vensa, eh, eh?}}
{{irci|vensa|I'm pretty stubborn myself :)<br/>tomoj u'isai}}
{{irci|ctino|Twey: Entertaining.}}
{{irci|vensa|:)<br/>lindar is quite so I suspect he actually went to the books<br/>*quiet}}
{{irci|ctino|Probably.<br/>I know I would have.}}
{{irci|vensa|when he comes back, all hell will break out}}
{{irci|ctino|Haha.<br/>The quiet before the storm.}}
{{irci|vensa|what happens if I leave before he comes back? :P}}
{{irci|ctino|>'''_>}}
{{irci|vensa|.y<br/>shhhhh...  "i'm not here..."}}
{{irci|ctino|So what's the synopsis of this debate?}}
{{irci|vensa|we'll have to wait for lindar to return for that}}
{{irci|ksion|vensa: That's mostly because is mutce certu loka fanza ;)}}
{{irci|vensa|it's not over till the british elf screams}}
{{irci|ksion|vensa: lindar is*}}
{{irci|ctino|xD}}
{{irci|tomoj|wat}}
{{irci|vensa|ksion: :)}}
{{irci|lindar|What's up now?}}
{{irci|ctino|I wanna know what the synopsis of your debate is.}}
{{irci|lindar|btw: Not to be picky/whiney or anything, but I would appreciate the favour of you referring to be as a spivvak. {{=}}/<br/>*to me as<br/>Short version: If you have a brivla name, you picked it. It always has the meaning. You can't divorce a gismu from the meaning just because it's a name. That's like naming a kid "Hope" and then saying, "It's a really cool name, but I never looked it up to find out what it means.".}}
{{irci|ctino|Hm. Okay, thanks.}}
{{irci|tomoj|certainly that's conceivable}}