Difference between revisions of "the Glasgow Conversation"

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*[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]:
 +
**The Lojban conversation held between [[User:Nick Nicholas|Nick Nicholas]] and [[Goran Topic|Goran Topic]] in Glasgow in 1995. Famous for its as-remembered recordbreaking fluency. This conversation, Nick taperecorded and pledged to transcribe, without ever getting round to doing so (to the benefit of the myth?)!
 +
***He doesn't have to transcribe it. Digitize it and let's see if we can understand it!
 +
****I think I do have to transcribe it for those too lazy to try :-) , but by all means, you don't have to read along. (For linguistic analysis, I also want to do a linguistically detailed transcription: false starts, talking over each other, the works.) What I'm really worried about is, whether I'll be able to tell [[Colin Fine|Colin Fine]] and [[Iain Alexander|Iain Alexander]] apart. Goran and Ivan will not be a problem...
 +
****[[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]:
 +
*****I pledge to do so when I return to Australia (where my tapes are) in November 2001. Hopefully after six years (untouched!) the tapes are still in good condition... After I do so, I will solicit opinions on how best to digitize it and put it on line; my alma mater does this kind of stuff with Aboriginal linguistics, so I don't think facilities will be a problem.
 +
******A late, inebriated snippet, with transcript<ref>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lojban/message/15099</ref>.
 +
* And, you've heard the tape; do you remember anything more about the conversation than I do?
 +
**Not really. It was six years ago. You were both very impressive. As I recall, you ummed and aahed more and seemed to be relying on intellectual bruteforce more. I remember other stuff about your spoken Lojban, but I think that was based on [[mi vizykla|then you were speaking to me]].
 +
*And's recollections at the time<ref>http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9509/msg00193.html</ref>.
 +
*A similar event in Esperanto history was not when the first Esperantist who learned it from a book spoke to Zamenhof (this was Grabowski, but Zamenhof and Grabowski were both Polish), but when the first conversation was held between people with no common language. This was a Russian Esperantist visiting France in the 1890's; unfortunately I don't recall details. Lojban, lamentably, is very far from reaching that goal... (But see [[Lojban materials in other languages]]).
 +
**But since the Glasgow Conversationalists had a common language, wasn't it more comparable to Grabowski?
 +
=Transcript=
 +
[[User:Nick Nicholas|la .nitcion.]]:
 +
<pre>
 +
i've converted to MP3 and posted on my website 3 minutes of talk I
 +
had with Goran Topic in Glasgow in 1995, to see if this kind of thing
 +
is feasible. Let me know if i should continue with this; my intent is
 +
to digitise and post all the Glasgow conversations eventually, but
 +
it'll be a long while.
  
Robin's Palm Writings Category: la nicte cadzu
+
This tape was made under suboptimal conditions :-) ; it's the final
 +
day of the Glasgow Worldcon, the 'Dead Dog' party, and I'm already
 +
pretty hoarse. Our Lojban talk is interrupted by a bout of paper
 +
plate throwing, and the conlangers in our party spend the next 10
 +
mins (at least) singing bad filk, lapsing into Klingon, and throwing
 +
paper frisbees. The female voice in the background is Klingonist
 +
Chris Atherton. What the lead in to my chat with Goran was, I don't
 +
know, but I transcribe it something like this (and yes, the talk has
 +
gotten pretty drunken; I vaguely recall this being a plausible parse
 +
--- Goran was claiming divinity over various implausible spheres, and
 +
I was humouring him.)
  
Navigation: [[Robin's Palm Writings: la nicte cadzu|la nicte cadzu Index]] [[Robin's Palm Writings|Robin's Palm Writings Top-Level Index]]
+
G: ti xu ji'a (??)
 
+
N: .y ki'a .i do jarco ma
ni'o vo pi ci mo'o nu jmaji
+
G: .i .i pau mi cu cevni ti ji'a
 
+
N: .y do jarco ma .i xu do jarco .y
.i la .susan. nergau le citka kumfa ba lo nu rapcreze'a lo dabytadji gi'e cusku lu li'a mi'o ba zi gunta ma li'u .i la .stefen. cu cmalu cisma gi'e cusku lu la rokyka'argau li'u ju'e lu .y. zo rokyka'argau cu lujvo fo ma .u'u li'u ju'e lu lu rokci katna gasnu li'u li'u ju'e lu .yyyy. .ua nai la rokyka'argau xu cu mipri girzu gi'e na ca'a katna lo rokci gi'e gasnu lo mipri ritli gi'e sidju lo verba .e lo simsa li'u .i la .stefen. milxe fengu cusku lu doi .deivid. ko zenba lo ka certu ctuca la .susan. li'u .i vy cusku lu .u'u ru'e sy nelci lo nu damba .e nai lo nu jundi ve cusku .i ji'a mi troci to'i sy ca co'a cusku toi li'u .i sy cusku lu na jetnu .i mi mutce certu lo ka jundi .i mu'i ma du cusku to'i sy ca zgana lo du'u cy troci lo nu na cisma .i se ki'u bo sy co'u tavla toi li'u .i sy milxe bo fengu je se zdile catlu vy
+
G: jarco ki'a
 
+
N: show XXX .i do jarco ma
ni'o cy cmalu cmila gi'e cusku lu la rokyka'argau cu ro roi damba la nicte cadzu tu'a lo remna .i so'a banli cmima be ry ky gy cu se lijda fi lo daspo fekcrida .i ku'i so'a to'e banli cmima cu fe'u po'o sidju lo verba gi'e te ritli fi lo to'e vajni gi'e pilno lo mipri xance bo jgari tadji gi'e vrici to'e vajni .i ma'a damba ry ky gy ze'u li nanca be li so'o no no li'u .i sy cusku lu .ue sai mi pu krici lo du'u la rokyka'argau cu cizra li'u
+
G: .i jarco .i jarco mi jarco lo degji pe
 
+
... what is the inalienable
ni'o sy cusku lu ta'o nai la rokyka'argau cu gasnu ma li'u .i la .deivid. cusku lu lo nu troci lo nu daspo lo barda dinju gi'e catra so'i remna .i ry ky gy zerle'a? so'i tabykrili .i se ki'u bo ny cy djuno lo du'u ba troci lo nu zbasu lo rokci remsmimi'i .i xu mi pu ciksi lo remsmimi'i do li'u ju'e lu xu makfa minji gi'e se tarmi lo remna li'u ju'e lu go'i .i lo rokci remsmimi'i cu tcetcetce tsali gi'e jai nandu fai lo nu catra .i se mu'i bo ny cy troci lo nu facki le se diklo be lo nu zbasu .i ji'a snada .i ry ky gy se ritli ca le cabycta bu'u le jesydinju po la merko banxo li'u ju'e lu xu lo pulji cu kansa mi'o lo nu gunta li'u ju'e lu go'i .i mi'o penmi py ze'o le jesydinju li'u
+
N: po
 
+
G: po is inalienable
ni'o le pulji jatna ca lo nu le gunta girzu be fi la .stefen. .e la .susan. .e la .deivid. .e la .kim. cu cliva le karce cu cusku lu .oi sai do bevri ma pau nai .i li'a le ti xumjimcelxa'i cu to'e jai se flalu .i mi zifre lo nu flalu kavbu ki'u ti po'o li'u .i la .deivid. fengu je smaji cusku lu do zifre lo nu ba'e troci li'u .i cy za'u re'u barda cisma gi'e cusku lu doi verba doi verba ko sisti .i mi'o nitcu lo nu sutra klama .i la'a ru'e pu cfari li'u .i le jatna cu cusku lu ma cfari li'u ju'e lu ju'o do na krici tu'a mi va'o lo nu da'i mi ciksi .i ko se gidva mi li'u
+
N: No, it's po'e
 
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G: po'e .i mi jarco lo degji po'e lemi pendo
ni'o za'a le jatna to'e gleki .i ku'i ri .e so'o drata pulji cu se gidva la .stefen. .i le jatna ca lo nu le girzu re'o le vorme be le jesydinju cu cusku lu do na zifre lo nu nergau li'u .i cy catlu le jatna tai lo ka cusku lo se du'u xu go'i .ia nai sai .i cy cusku lu doi .kim. li'u .i ky ze'i gunka catlu le vrogai .i se ri'a bo le ro girzu cu tirna lo sance be lo nu lo stela cu kalri binxo .i se ki'u bo le girzu cu nergau le jesydinju .i ca bo la .susan. sumne lo carvi gi'e peisku lu mi nelci lo nitce nu carvi li'u
+
N: .i .i fau lenu do djica lenu ponse le ...
 
+
ponse so ... co cevni .y le degji [kei],
ni'o ba za bo le girzu cu nergau le -elevator-? si'u la .kim. .i le jatna ca lo nu farlu cu cusku lu doi .stefen. ma nenri le xekri tanxe li'u ju'e lu lo barda xumjimcelxa'i li'u .i le jatna na jarco lo ka gleki .i la .deivid. cu smaji cusku bau la .lojban. lu lu ma ji'a mi'o se ponse li'u ju'e lu lo xa mei fekcrida dakli li'u li'u .i la .susan. ze'i se cfipu gi'e ku'i ba bo morji lo skinsa to ri poi na te bangu fi la .lojban. li'a sai toi .i lo nu na cmila cu mutce nandu sy
+
do ka'e go'i [= djica]
 +
.i mi curmi .i mi na'e natfe
 +
.i zifre munje .i zifre munje
 +
.i zifre loi cevni ...
 +
G: mi
 +
N: ... pe mu'u do
 +
G: mi .y bu'u ti noda natfe
 +
N: XXX bu'u ki'a (??)
 +
G: Here. At this place.
 +
N: Ah, bu'u! Stop using that, I'm not familiar with it!
 +
G: I'm sorry!
 +
N: Those bloody... bloody.. loi mabla cnino
 +
.y selckaji pe... be le gerna [be'o] poi na'e ke se djuno mi
 +
.i .i do pilno roroi lei mabla cnino
 +
.i mi na'e ka'e fraxu (??)
 +
G: .i mi na pilno ro lei mabla cnino
 +
N: .i do pilno loi zabna ... Ah shit (??)...
 +
.i do pilno loi traji mabla cnino
 +
G: .i mi na go'i
 +
C: Are you talking about me?
 +
N: Nah, I'm saying, stop using all these bloody grammatical innovations.
 +
C: Yes, don't do it.
 +
N: Yeah.
 +
(Laughter)
 +
G: .i mi .y cu pilno .y so'o po'o lo cnino
 +
N: .y mi na'e djica (??)
 +
.i do pilno zo ... zo bu'u noi banzu
 +
noi banzu lonu .y
 +
(C: says she is not a Lojbanist to someone else)
 +
N: xlapajni do
 +
(Other talk)
 +
(Flying saucers)
 +
N: Now this is just getting silly!
 +
.i co'a se bebna!
 +
</pre>
 +
=Audio=
 +
*[[:File:the Glasgow Conversation.mpga|the Glasgow Conversation]]
 +
=References=

Latest revision as of 19:20, 11 April 2015

  • And Rosta:
    • The Lojban conversation held between Nick Nicholas and Goran Topic in Glasgow in 1995. Famous for its as-remembered recordbreaking fluency. This conversation, Nick taperecorded and pledged to transcribe, without ever getting round to doing so (to the benefit of the myth?)!
      • He doesn't have to transcribe it. Digitize it and let's see if we can understand it!
        • I think I do have to transcribe it for those too lazy to try :-) , but by all means, you don't have to read along. (For linguistic analysis, I also want to do a linguistically detailed transcription: false starts, talking over each other, the works.) What I'm really worried about is, whether I'll be able to tell Colin Fine and Iain Alexander apart. Goran and Ivan will not be a problem...
        • nitcion:
          • I pledge to do so when I return to Australia (where my tapes are) in November 2001. Hopefully after six years (untouched!) the tapes are still in good condition... After I do so, I will solicit opinions on how best to digitize it and put it on line; my alma mater does this kind of stuff with Aboriginal linguistics, so I don't think facilities will be a problem.
            • A late, inebriated snippet, with transcript[1].
  • And, you've heard the tape; do you remember anything more about the conversation than I do?
    • Not really. It was six years ago. You were both very impressive. As I recall, you ummed and aahed more and seemed to be relying on intellectual bruteforce more. I remember other stuff about your spoken Lojban, but I think that was based on then you were speaking to me.
  • And's recollections at the time[2].
  • A similar event in Esperanto history was not when the first Esperantist who learned it from a book spoke to Zamenhof (this was Grabowski, but Zamenhof and Grabowski were both Polish), but when the first conversation was held between people with no common language. This was a Russian Esperantist visiting France in the 1890's; unfortunately I don't recall details. Lojban, lamentably, is very far from reaching that goal... (But see Lojban materials in other languages).
    • But since the Glasgow Conversationalists had a common language, wasn't it more comparable to Grabowski?

Transcript

la .nitcion.:

i've converted to MP3 and posted on my website 3 minutes of talk I 
had with Goran Topic in Glasgow in 1995, to see if this kind of thing 
is feasible. Let me know if i should continue with this; my intent is 
to digitise and post all the Glasgow conversations eventually, but 
it'll be a long while.

This tape was made under suboptimal conditions :-) ; it's the final 
day of the Glasgow Worldcon, the 'Dead Dog' party, and I'm already 
pretty hoarse. Our Lojban talk is interrupted by a bout of paper 
plate throwing, and the conlangers in our party spend the next 10 
mins (at least) singing bad filk, lapsing into Klingon, and throwing 
paper frisbees. The female voice in the background is Klingonist 
Chris Atherton. What the lead in to my chat with Goran was, I don't 
know, but I transcribe it something like this (and yes, the talk has 
gotten pretty drunken; I vaguely recall this being a plausible parse 
--- Goran was claiming divinity over various implausible spheres, and 
I was humouring him.)

G: ti xu ji'a (??)
N: .y ki'a .i do jarco ma
G: .i .i pau mi cu cevni ti ji'a
N: .y do jarco ma .i xu do jarco .y
G: jarco ki'a
N: show XXX .i do jarco ma
G: .i jarco .i jarco mi jarco lo degji pe
... what is the inalienable
N: po
G: po is inalienable
N: No, it's po'e
G: po'e .i mi jarco lo degji po'e lemi pendo
N: .i .i fau lenu do djica lenu ponse le ...
ponse so ... co cevni .y le degji [kei],
do ka'e go'i [= djica]
.i mi curmi .i mi na'e natfe
.i zifre munje .i zifre munje
.i zifre loi cevni ...
G: mi
N: ... pe mu'u do
G: mi .y bu'u ti noda natfe
N: XXX bu'u ki'a (??)
G: Here. At this place.
N: Ah, bu'u! Stop using that, I'm not familiar with it!
G: I'm sorry!
N: Those bloody... bloody.. loi mabla cnino
.y selckaji pe... be le gerna [be'o] poi na'e ke se djuno mi
.i .i do pilno roroi lei mabla cnino
.i mi na'e ka'e fraxu (??)
G: .i mi na pilno ro lei mabla cnino
N: .i do pilno loi zabna ... Ah shit (??)...
.i do pilno loi traji mabla cnino
G: .i mi na go'i
C: Are you talking about me?
N: Nah, I'm saying, stop using all these bloody grammatical innovations.
C: Yes, don't do it.
N: Yeah.
(Laughter)
G: .i mi .y cu pilno .y so'o po'o lo cnino
N: .y mi na'e djica (??)
.i do pilno zo ... zo bu'u noi banzu
noi banzu lonu .y
(C: says she is not a Lojbanist to someone else)
N: xlapajni do
(Other talk)
(Flying saucers)
N: Now this is just getting silly!
.i co'a se bebna!

Audio

References