https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=the_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism&feed=atom&action=historythe Emergence of Lojban Nationalism - Revision history2024-03-28T09:00:23ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=the_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism&diff=100360&oldid=prevConversion script: Conversion script moved page The Emergence of Lojban Nationalism to the Emergence of Lojban Nationalism: Converting page titles to lowercase2014-06-30T08:35:53Z<p>Conversion script moved page <a href="/papri/The_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism" class="mw-redirect" title="The Emergence of Lojban Nationalism">The Emergence of Lojban Nationalism</a> to <a href="/papri/the_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism" title="the Emergence of Lojban Nationalism">the Emergence of Lojban Nationalism</a>: Converting page titles to lowercase</p>
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</td></tr></table>Conversion scripthttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=the_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism&diff=91576&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-K])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:57:03Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-K])" to "$1"</p>
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l49">Line 49:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Lojban culture superior to all others? Isn't that dangerous? When europe thought that, look what happened. Slave trade, exploitation of native americans, destruction of the largest and most developed country then in existence. We have a word for this, xod. Xenophobia. I agree that cultural gismu put some cultures 'ahead' of others, so if we remove them we should remove lojbo. Lojban culture can exist, but lojban chauvinism is just anti-nolylojbo in disguise. I prefer the ADDITION of gismu for cultures we lack, such as norgo. ''I second the motion.''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Lojban culture superior to all others? Isn't that dangerous? When europe thought that, look what happened. Slave trade, exploitation of native americans, destruction of the largest and most developed country then in existence. We have a word for this, xod. Xenophobia. I agree that cultural gismu put some cultures 'ahead' of others, so if we remove them we should remove lojbo. Lojban culture can exist, but lojban chauvinism is just anti-nolylojbo in disguise. I prefer the ADDITION of gismu for cultures we lack, such as norgo. ''I second the motion.''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''We don't have enough extra potential gismu to accomodate all the cultures and languages in existence.'' '''Yes we do.''' [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>For small values of 'yes'.|For small values of 'yes'.]] '''See [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Free Gismu Space|Free Gismu Space]]'''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''We don't have enough extra potential gismu to accomodate all the cultures and languages in existence.'' '''Yes we do.''' [[For small values of 'yes'.|For small values of 'yes'.]] '''See [[Free Gismu Space|Free Gismu Space]]'''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Furthermore, such approximations are very far from the original names, whereas with fu'ivla we can do much better -- we can approximate the original names to the extent that our letters let us.--xod''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Furthermore, such approximations are very far from the original names, whereas with fu'ivla we can do much better -- we can approximate the original names to the extent that our letters let us.--xod''</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Europe didn't colonize the whole world because they had racial superiority theories, but rather because they gained the tech superiority to pull it off. --xod''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Europe didn't colonize the whole world because they had racial superiority theories, but rather because they gained the tech superiority to pull it off. --xod''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>just seems to me like a language/culture ought to be allowed to have a native word for itself, and then borrow in the names of the other cultures. however, why argue? both systems are compatible: start making a list of [[cultural fu'ivla|cultural fu'ivla]] and then people who agree will use them. people who don't agree will continue to use the [[cultural gismu|cultural gismu]]. the inferior words will die out sooner or later. --[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>just seems to me like a language/culture ought to be allowed to have a native word for itself, and then borrow in the names of the other cultures. however, why argue? both systems are compatible: start making a list of [[cultural fu'ivla|cultural fu'ivla]] and then people who agree will use them. people who don't agree will continue to use the [[cultural gismu|cultural gismu]]. the inferior words will die out sooner or later. --[[Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Well, some cultures use words like "jetnu" or "prenu" to refer to themselves. How about "la jetybau"? -- [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Adam|Adam]]'' (''jdice cumki bangu'')</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Well, some cultures use words like "jetnu" or "prenu" to refer to themselves. How about "la jetybau"? -- [[Adam|Adam]]'' (''jdice cumki bangu'')</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Because names have to end with consonants followed by full stops... try ''le jetybau'' or ''la jetyban.''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Because names have to end with consonants followed by full stops... try ''le jetybau'' or ''la jetyban.''</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=the_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism&diff=89211&oldid=prevGleki: Gleki moved page jbocre: The Emergence of Lojban Nationalism to The Emergence of Lojban Nationalism without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: T" to "T"2014-03-23T14:35:20Z<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=jbocre:_The_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="jbocre: The Emergence of Lojban Nationalism (page does not exist)">jbocre: The Emergence of Lojban Nationalism</a> to <a href="/papri/The_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism" class="mw-redirect" title="The Emergence of Lojban Nationalism">The Emergence of Lojban Nationalism</a> without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: T" to "T"</p>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=the_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism&diff=88331&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: l" to "l"2014-03-23T12:15:32Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: l" to "l"</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>See ''[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>le pu naje ca xamsi cnita|le pu naje ca xamsi cnita]]''.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>See ''[[le pu naje ca xamsi cnita|le pu naje ca xamsi cnita]]''.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>----</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>----</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>No, it doesn't. It supposed to remind you of ''logji bangu'', but it's a name. If you want it to mean that, use ''lojbau''. Likewise, if you want a word meaning ''lojbo bangu'', use ''jbobau''.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>No, it doesn't. It supposed to remind you of ''logji bangu'', but it's a name. If you want it to mean that, use ''lojbau''. Likewise, if you want a word meaning ''lojbo bangu'', use ''jbobau''.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I still don't get it. Are you saying we ''should'' be culturally chauvinistic? If there's some reason that all the other [[cultural gismu|cultural gismu]] should be dropped, why doesn't it apply to ''[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>lojbo|lojbo]]''? (Not that I'm agreeing, just wondering what the reason is.)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I still don't get it. Are you saying we ''should'' be culturally chauvinistic? If there's some reason that all the other [[cultural gismu|cultural gismu]] should be dropped, why doesn't it apply to ''[[lojbo|lojbo]]''? (Not that I'm agreeing, just wondering what the reason is.)</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I agree. Lojbo as the only cultural gismu makes lojban culture seem superior to other cultures. I thought our goal was neutrality...</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I agree. Lojbo as the only cultural gismu makes lojban culture seem superior to other cultures. I thought our goal was neutrality...</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=the_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism&diff=87898&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: t" to "t"2014-03-23T12:07:57Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: t" to "t"</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Because names have to end with consonants followed by full stops... try ''le jetybau'' or ''la jetyban.''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Because names have to end with consonants followed by full stops... try ''le jetybau'' or ''la jetyban.''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''No, they don't; selma'o LA can appear anywhere LE can. (There's the ''stace = Frank'' example in [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>the book|the book]] somewhere.) Personally, I find morphological cmene to be ugly and hard to pronounce, and I suggest using them as little as possible (certainly not when there's a clearer selbri).''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''No, they don't; selma'o LA can appear anywhere LE can. (There's the ''stace = Frank'' example in [[the book|the book]] somewhere.) Personally, I find morphological cmene to be ugly and hard to pronounce, and I suggest using them as little as possible (certainly not when there's a clearer selbri).''</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=the_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism&diff=86866&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: c" to "c"2014-03-23T11:38:25Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: c" to "c"</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 11:38, 23 March 2014</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Since I think we need to jettison all [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>cultural gismu|cultural gismu]] (except "lojbo") and replace them with stage threes, [http://nuzban.wiw.org/wiki/index.php?full=spero speranto] is no exception! --xod''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Since I think we need to jettison all [[cultural gismu|cultural gismu]] (except "lojbo") and replace them with stage threes, [http://nuzban.wiw.org/wiki/index.php?full=spero speranto] is no exception! --xod''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Why should ''lojbo'' be an exception? What's wrong with ''banrlojbani''?</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Why should ''lojbo'' be an exception? What's wrong with ''banrlojbani''?</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l31">Line 31:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>No, it doesn't. It supposed to remind you of ''logji bangu'', but it's a name. If you want it to mean that, use ''lojbau''. Likewise, if you want a word meaning ''lojbo bangu'', use ''jbobau''.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>No, it doesn't. It supposed to remind you of ''logji bangu'', but it's a name. If you want it to mean that, use ''lojbau''. Likewise, if you want a word meaning ''lojbo bangu'', use ''jbobau''.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I still don't get it. Are you saying we ''should'' be culturally chauvinistic? If there's some reason that all the other [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>cultural gismu|cultural gismu]] should be dropped, why doesn't it apply to ''[[jbocre: lojbo|lojbo]]''? (Not that I'm agreeing, just wondering what the reason is.)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I still don't get it. Are you saying we ''should'' be culturally chauvinistic? If there's some reason that all the other [[cultural gismu|cultural gismu]] should be dropped, why doesn't it apply to ''[[jbocre: lojbo|lojbo]]''? (Not that I'm agreeing, just wondering what the reason is.)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I agree. Lojbo as the only cultural gismu makes lojban culture seem superior to other cultures. I thought our goal was neutrality...</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I agree. Lojbo as the only cultural gismu makes lojban culture seem superior to other cultures. I thought our goal was neutrality...</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Europe didn't colonize the whole world because they had racial superiority theories, but rather because they gained the tech superiority to pull it off. --xod''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Europe didn't colonize the whole world because they had racial superiority theories, but rather because they gained the tech superiority to pull it off. --xod''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>just seems to me like a language/culture ought to be allowed to have a native word for itself, and then borrow in the names of the other cultures. however, why argue? both systems are compatible: start making a list of [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>cultural fu'ivla|cultural fu'ivla]] and then people who agree will use them. people who don't agree will continue to use the [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>cultural gismu|cultural gismu]]. the inferior words will die out sooner or later. --[[jbocre: Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>just seems to me like a language/culture ought to be allowed to have a native word for itself, and then borrow in the names of the other cultures. however, why argue? both systems are compatible: start making a list of [[cultural fu'ivla|cultural fu'ivla]] and then people who agree will use them. people who don't agree will continue to use the [[cultural gismu|cultural gismu]]. the inferior words will die out sooner or later. --[[jbocre: Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Well, some cultures use words like "jetnu" or "prenu" to refer to themselves. How about "la jetybau"? -- [[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]'' (''jdice cumki bangu'')</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''Well, some cultures use words like "jetnu" or "prenu" to refer to themselves. How about "la jetybau"? -- [[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]'' (''jdice cumki bangu'')</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=the_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism&diff=76204&oldid=prevGleki at 17:16, 4 November 20132013-11-04T17:16:21Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 17:16, 4 November 2013</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">For the Lojban symbol see [[GIF images of the Lojban symbol]]</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Robin's Palm Writings Category: la nicte cadzu</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">----</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Navigation: [[Robin</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s Palm Writings: la nicte cadzu|la nicte cadzu Index]] [[Robin</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s Palm Writings|Robin</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s Palm Writings Top-Level Index]] </del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.i se</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">a .o</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">acai ri</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">esai le lojbo noi banli zo'u na'ebo ly. ca'a kalci bangu</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ni</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">o sai vo mo'o nu troci co falgau</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.i ma traji le ka jbopa</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ni</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">o vo pi pa mo</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">o nu fengu</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.i ju</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ocai le pruxi po</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">e ly. cu prane</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">la .kricnan. cu nergau le briju gi</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">e cusku lu do djica lo nu mi vitke do doi jatna li'u to bau la .gliban. .</del>i <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">le dei pagbu cu ro roi se bangu la .gliban. toi </del>.i <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">la .djan. cusku lu go</del>'i <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.i ti malgletu month li'u gi'e fengu desygau lo xatra .i la .kricnan. smaji ganlygau </del>le <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">vrogai gi'u cusku lu mi na djuno .i .e'u ko zgagau mi ti li'u .i la .djan. rigni je fandu dunda </del>le <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">xatra .i la .kricnan. sutra tcidu gi'e barda je to'e gleki vasxu gi'e zutse ragve </del>le <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jubme la .djan. poi fengu </del>je <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">cladu cusku lu ba'e mo li'u</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ga</ins>'i .i'i le <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbopei </ins>le <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rarbaupei cu zmadu </ins>le <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ka logji </ins>je <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">vlipa</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ni'o ky cusku lu mi pu kanpe lo nu do na gleki ti </del>.i <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ku'i le ve xatra cu curve lo ka jetnu li'u </del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i la .djan. catlu la .kricnan. se kai lo ka dy krici lo du'u ky mulno -mentally ill-? </del>.i <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">dy cusku lu .e'u cai </del>ko <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">cusku lo se du'u do pu zi zdile cusku li'u ju'e lu .u'u </del>sai <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">mi na zdile cusku li'u ju'e lu ti xatra mi lo purlamji pulji jatna lo se du'u mi bilga lo nu na jundi lo morsi remna poi se jadni lo kanla joi lunra </del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i li'a sai fenki .i mi no roi bilga lo nu toljundi lo morsi remna .i mi pulji jatna .oi sai li'u</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>.i .<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">iisai </ins>.i ko <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">terpa </ins>sai <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">le bazu fatci jbopei </ins>.<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">iosai</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ni'o la .kricnan. se sance tu'a lo ka tatpi gi'e cusku lu doi jatna ko cpedu fi su'o le ro pulji poi bu'u se jibri ze'u lo nance be li su'o re .i ro remna poi penmi lo remna poi pilno le kanla joi lunra sinxa cu xusra lo du'u la nicte cadzu cu badgau fo da poi do no kakne lo nu xanri li'u .i la .djan. fengu catlu gi'e cusku lu xu lo catra poi do skicu cu se cmene lu nicte c adzu li'u li'u ju'e lu go'i li'u .i dy catke lo batke gi'e cusku lu doi .doris. ko facki pa pulji poi bu'u se jibri ze'a lo nanca be li su'o re .i ko minde lo nu ri vitke mi li'u ju'e lu .y. so'i da zasti .i do djica ma sa'e li'u ju'e lu mi na cinri .i ko pilno lo pa moi poi do viska li'u ju'i lu vi'o jatna li'u</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">----</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ni</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">o ba ze</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i lo mentu be li ji'i re to la .djan. fengu catlu la .kricnan. ca'o ri toi la .moriartis. nergau </del>le <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">kumfa gi'e cusku lu do djica ma doi jatna li'u .i la .djan. cusku lu xu do </del>pu <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">zgana le se jadni po la nicte cadzu li'u .i my ze'i terpa catlu la .kricnan. gi'e ga'orgau </del>le <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">vrogai gi'e cusku lu go'i li'u .i la .djan. cusku lu xu do troci lo nu facki da poi pilno le se jadni li'u ju'e lu na go'i doi jatna li'u ju'e lu .oi sai ma mukti li'u ju'e lu .y. .u'u sai doi jatna la'a do na krici le mukti li'u ju'e lu .oi cai doi ro do ko sisti lo nu cusku lo se du'u mi na krici .i mi bu'u se jibri ze'i pa jetfu .i do ba'e na djuno ma kau poi mi ka'e krici .i doi .moriartis. ko ciksi le mukti li'u ju'e lu le se jadni cu se jadni lo na cumki jmive li'u ju'e lu .oi sai lu lo na cumki jmive li'u cu se smuni ma .i li'a smuni no da li'u ju'e lu mi na djuno .i ku'i mi su'o pa roi ro jeftu cu terpa senvi le morsi jmive poi mi </del>pu <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">viska li</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">u ju</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">e lu </del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">oi ko cliva li'u</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">See </ins>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[jbocre: </ins>le pu <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">naje ca xamsi cnita|</ins>le pu <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">naje ca xamsi cnita]]</ins>''.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ni</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">o ba bo la </del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">kricnan</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">cusku lu mi stidi lo nu </del>do <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">penmi da poi krati la nicte cadzu </del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i mu</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i bo </del>so'a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">bu</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">u pulji ba na sidju do lo nu kavbu ny cy </del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i </del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">u</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">u sai li</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">u </del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i ky zi krici lo du</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">u </del>le <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">risna </del>be <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">le jatna cu fliba </del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i se </del>mu'i <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">bo </del>le <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">flira be </del>le <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jatna cu binxo </del>lo <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">curve xunre .i ba bo la .djan. smaji cusku lu </del>ko <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ji</del>'a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">cliva pu </del>lo <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">nu </del>mi <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">catra do se pi</del>'o <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">le mi xanxe li</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">u .i la .kricnan. ca gasnu lo te minde</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">----</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'Since I think we need to jettison all [[jbocre: cultural gismu|cultural gismu]] (except "lojbo") and replace them with stage threes, [http://nuzban.wiw.org/wiki/index.php?full=spero speranto] is no exception! --xod''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Why should ''lojbo'' be an exception? What's wrong with ''banrlojbani''?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''(Well for one thing, the "-ban" at the end means bangu; that word you created thus means "language, logical language".) On the other hand, There is no need for us to try not to be culturally chauvinistic. --xod''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">No, ''lojban'' is a name. I can also talk about ''kulnrlojbani'' and ''gugrlojbani''.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''Are you telling me that '''lojban''' does NOT mean lojbo bangu? --xod''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">No, it doesn't. It supposed to remind you of ''logji bangu'', but it's a name. If you want it to mean that, use ''lojbau''. Likewise, if you want a word meaning ''lojbo bangu'', use ''jbobau''.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I still don't get it. Are you saying we ''should'' be culturally chauvinistic? If there's some reason that all the other [[jbocre: cultural gismu|cultural gismu]] should be dropped, why doesn't it apply to ''[[jbocre: lojbo|lojbo]]''? (Not that I'm agreeing, just wondering what the reason is.)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I agree. Lojbo as the only cultural gismu makes lojban culture seem superior to other cultures. I thought our goal was neutrality.</ins>..</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''I really don't see why cultural neutrality has anything to </ins>do <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">with Lojban culture! Are we supposed to be free of that too? As soon as we see ourselves establishing a Lojban culture we're supposed to stop, for fear of malylojbo? Clearly if the idea of neutrality is taken to ridiculous extremes, it contradicts itself. If SW is valid, there exists a (largely-undiscovered) Lojban culture. If we waste our time with Lojban it's because we think such a culture would be a good thing. If you're a Lojban Chauvinist like me, you absolutely believe that a Lojbanic culture is, in fact, superior to any other. --xod''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I don't have a problem with Lojban culture, but if fu'ivla are better than gismu for talking about all the other cultures, why is ''lojbo'' an exception?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''So we can use the jbo- rafsi. --xod''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Then why doesn't the ''mer-'' rafsi justify the existence of ''merko''?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''Because this is the Lojban language, not the American language! Therefore a lojbocentric viewpoint need not even be justified. --xod''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I just remind you once again of Ralph Dumain's dictum: Cultural Neutrality != Cultural Nullity. (And he thinks Lojban has the latter) -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]].</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Lojban culture superior to all others? Isn't that dangerous? When europe thought that, look what happened. Slave trade, exploitation of native americans, destruction of the largest and most developed country then in existence. We have a word for this, xod. Xenophobia</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I agree that cultural gismu put some cultures 'ahead</ins>' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">of others, </ins>so <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">if we remove them we should remove lojbo. Lojban culture can exist, but lojban chauvinism is just anti-nolylojbo in disguise. I prefer the ADDITION of gismu for cultures we lack, such as norgo. </ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'I second the motion.''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''We don't have enough extra potential gismu to accomodate all the cultures and languages in existence.'' '''Yes we do.''' [[jbocre: For small values of 'yes'.|For small values of 'yes'.]] '''See [[jbocre: Free Gismu Space|Free Gismu Space]]'''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''Furthermore, such approximations are very far from the original names, whereas with fu'ivla we can do much better -- we can approximate the original names to the extent that our letters let us.--xod''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''Cultures evolve. Are all cultures interchangeably equal and equivalent? No. If you hate all those aforementioned atrocities, let's do what we can do evolve past them. Part of this evolution is the development of cultural elements that are better than previous ones. I happen to think that a logical language is better than a natural language at enabling its speakers to deal with reality and logic and complexity. The atrocities you are wary of might be regarded as antithetical to the evolution I am discussing. --xod''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''Europe didn't colonize the whole world because they had racial superiority theories, but rather because they gained the tech superiority to pull it off. --xod''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">just seems to me like a language/culture ought to be allowed to have a native word for itself, and then borrow in the names of the other cultures. however, why argue? both systems are compatible: start making </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">list of [[jbocre: cultural fu</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ivla|cultural fu'ivla]] and then people who agree will use them. people who don't agree will continue to use the [[jbocre: cultural gismu|cultural gismu]]. the inferior words will die out sooner or later</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">--[[jbocre: Jay Kominek|Jay]]</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''Well, some cultures use words like "jetnu" or "prenu" to refer to themselves</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">How about "la jetybau"? -- [[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]'' (''jdice cumki bangu</ins>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Because names have to end with consonants followed by full stops..</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">try '</ins>'le <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jetybau'' or ''la jetyban.''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''No, they don't; selma'o LA can appear anywhere LE can. (There's the ''stace = Frank'' example in [[jbocre: the book|the book]] somewhere.) Personally, I find morphological cmene to </ins>be <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ugly and hard to pronounce, and I suggest using them as little as possible (certainly not when there's a clearer selbri)</ins>.<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">----</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ma goi ko'a pare'u morsi </ins>mu'i le <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">nu prami </ins>le <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lojbo kulnu i a'ocai ko'a na renro </ins>lo <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">vinji poi vasru </ins>ko'a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">e so'o drata prenu ku'o </ins>lo <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">dinju poi vasru so'i prenu i </ins>mi<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'e tinkit</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">----</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{mrobi</ins>'o<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">} Can one ''be'</ins>' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">dead (or anything else) for a motive?</ins></div></td></tr>
</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=the_Emergence_of_Lojban_Nationalism&diff=65651&oldid=prevGleki at 17:11, 4 November 20132013-11-04T17:11:12Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><br />
Robin's Palm Writings Category: la nicte cadzu<br />
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Navigation: [[Robin's Palm Writings: la nicte cadzu|la nicte cadzu Index]] [[Robin's Palm Writings|Robin's Palm Writings Top-Level Index]] <br />
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ni'o sai vo mo'o nu troci co falgau<br />
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ni'o vo pi pa mo'o nu fengu<br />
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.i la .kricnan. cu nergau le briju gi'e cusku lu do djica lo nu mi vitke do doi jatna li'u to bau la .gliban. .i le dei pagbu cu ro roi se bangu la .gliban. toi .i la .djan. cusku lu go'i .i ti malgletu month li'u gi'e fengu desygau lo xatra .i la .kricnan. smaji ganlygau le vrogai gi'u cusku lu mi na djuno .i .e'u ko zgagau mi ti li'u .i la .djan. rigni je fandu dunda le xatra .i la .kricnan. sutra tcidu gi'e barda je to'e gleki vasxu gi'e zutse ragve le jubme la .djan. poi fengu je cladu cusku lu ba'e mo li'u<br />
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ni'o ky cusku lu mi pu kanpe lo nu do na gleki ti .i ku'i le ve xatra cu curve lo ka jetnu li'u .i la .djan. catlu la .kricnan. se kai lo ka dy krici lo du'u ky mulno -mentally ill-? .i dy cusku lu .e'u cai ko cusku lo se du'u do pu zi zdile cusku li'u ju'e lu .u'u sai mi na zdile cusku li'u ju'e lu ti xatra mi lo purlamji pulji jatna lo se du'u mi bilga lo nu na jundi lo morsi remna poi se jadni lo kanla joi lunra .i li'a sai fenki .i mi no roi bilga lo nu toljundi lo morsi remna .i mi pulji jatna .oi sai li'u<br />
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ni'o la .kricnan. se sance tu'a lo ka tatpi gi'e cusku lu doi jatna ko cpedu fi su'o le ro pulji poi bu'u se jibri ze'u lo nance be li su'o re .i ro remna poi penmi lo remna poi pilno le kanla joi lunra sinxa cu xusra lo du'u la nicte cadzu cu badgau fo da poi do no kakne lo nu xanri li'u .i la .djan. fengu catlu gi'e cusku lu xu lo catra poi do skicu cu se cmene lu nicte c adzu li'u li'u ju'e lu go'i li'u .i dy catke lo batke gi'e cusku lu doi .doris. ko facki pa pulji poi bu'u se jibri ze'a lo nanca be li su'o re .i ko minde lo nu ri vitke mi li'u ju'e lu .y. so'i da zasti .i do djica ma sa'e li'u ju'e lu mi na cinri .i ko pilno lo pa moi poi do viska li'u ju'i lu vi'o jatna li'u<br />
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ni'o ba ze'i lo mentu be li ji'i re to la .djan. fengu catlu la .kricnan. ca'o ri toi la .moriartis. nergau le kumfa gi'e cusku lu do djica ma doi jatna li'u .i la .djan. cusku lu xu do pu zgana le se jadni po la nicte cadzu li'u .i my ze'i terpa catlu la .kricnan. gi'e ga'orgau le vrogai gi'e cusku lu go'i li'u .i la .djan. cusku lu xu do troci lo nu facki da poi pilno le se jadni li'u ju'e lu na go'i doi jatna li'u ju'e lu .oi sai ma mukti li'u ju'e lu .y. .u'u sai doi jatna la'a do na krici le mukti li'u ju'e lu .oi cai doi ro do ko sisti lo nu cusku lo se du'u mi na krici .i mi bu'u se jibri ze'i pa jetfu .i do ba'e na djuno ma kau poi mi ka'e krici .i doi .moriartis. ko ciksi le mukti li'u ju'e lu le se jadni cu se jadni lo na cumki jmive li'u ju'e lu .oi sai lu lo na cumki jmive li'u cu se smuni ma .i li'a smuni no da li'u ju'e lu mi na djuno .i ku'i mi su'o pa roi ro jeftu cu terpa senvi le morsi jmive poi mi pu viska li'u ju'e lu .oi ko cliva li'u<br />
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ni'o ba bo la .kricnan. cusku lu mi stidi lo nu do penmi da poi krati la nicte cadzu .i mu'i bo so'a bu'u pulji ba na sidju do lo nu kavbu ny cy .i .u'u sai li'u .i ky zi krici lo du'u le risna be le jatna cu fliba .i se mu'i bo le flira be le jatna cu binxo lo curve xunre .i ba bo la .djan. smaji cusku lu ko ji'a cliva pu lo nu mi catra do se pi'o le mi xanxe li'u .i la .kricnan. ca gasnu lo te minde</div>Gleki