spero: Difference between revisions

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The words of Lojban are classified, according to their grammar, in 124 selma'o (counting BRIVLA and CMENE). This number of grammar classes is excesive, and can be easily reduced without any noticeable effect in the expressiveness of the language (and in many cases with some increase in it). These 55 selma'o could be eliminated or merged with other selma'o, thereby reducing the complexity of the syntax, and thus making it easier to learn. (Arguments for each of these actions have been presented in different places, and I may in the future try to collect them here or provide links. For the moment I am only recording the list. Discussion about the general idea of selma'o number reduction or about particular cases is welcome in the discussion forum of this page. mi'e [[User:xorxes|xorxes]] )
[http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/spero {spero}] - an unofficial gismu for '[[jbocre: Esperanto|Esperanto]]' (see also http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/unofficial-gismu.html).


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First proposed (with a real chance back then of it becoming official!) by [[jbocre: John Cowan|John Cowan]]: [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9012/msg00009.html] , rejected at Logfest 91: [http://balance.wiw.org/~jkominek/lojban/9106/msg00127.html].


'''selma'o''' | '''recommended action''' | '''backwards compatibility'''
:According to proposal in chapter 4.16 of [[jbocre: The Book|The Book]], fu'ivla ''spe'ato'' can be used instead. How do you like this? -- [[User:Cyril Slobin|kir]]
 
::''spe'anto'' is better, IMO. --[[jbocre: Jay Kominek|Jay]]
tags
:::''But The Book explicitely suggests CCVVCV for cultural fu'ivla! -- [[User:Cyril Slobin| kir]]''
 
::This being a strawpoll :-) , I'm diehard behind ''bangrnesperanto'' -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]] ''Maybe banrsperanto?'' Being hardcore fundamentalist, I avoid this as not being canonical per the Book. ''???!!! How is it not canonical?'' Fine: "not the default strategy suggested."
CAhA | merge with BAI | yes
:::Spero all the way! - [[jbocre: .kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.]]
 
::Well, I'm in favour of ''[[jbocre: pacnybau|pacnybau]]''. --[[User:tsali|tsali]]
CUhE | merge with BAI | yes
:''Since I think we need to jettison all [[jbocre: cultural gismu|cultural gismu]] (except "lojbo") and replace them with stage threes, Esperanto is no exception! --xod''
 
:'''All the ire aroused by this comment was moved [[jbocre: The Emergence of Lojban Nationalism|here]].'''
FAhA | merge with BAI | yes
:pe'i it is okay to keep cultural gismu and add new ones so long as the existing ones lose their rafsi (in usage or in Ideal Lojban). See [[Boo to cultural gismu|Boo to cultural gismu]]. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]]
 
:The idea of cultural gismu is totes inconsistent, considering the nature of Lojban. However, the prefixes and suffixes are sometimes useful. - [[User:PlasticRaven|Plastic Raven]]
KI | merge with BAI | yes
 
PU | merge with BAI | yes
 
TAhE | merge with BAI | yes
 
VA | merge with BAI | yes
 
VEhA | merge with BAI | yes
 
VIhA | eliminate/merge with BAI | no/yes
 
ZAhO | merge with BAI | yes
 
ZEhA | merge with BAI  | yes
 
ZI | merge with BAI | yes
 
MOhI | eliminate/merge with FEhE | no/yes
 
indicators
 
CAI | merge with UI | yes
 
DAhO | merge with UI | yes
 
FUhE | merge with UI | yes
 
FUhO | merge with UI | yes
 
GAhO | merge with UI | almost
 
NAI | merge with UI | yes
 
RAhO | merge with UI | yes
 
SOI | eliminate | no
 
connectives
 
A | merge with JOI | yes (allowing NA JOI)
 
BIhI | merge with JOI | almost
 
JA | merge with JOI | yes (allowing NA JOI)
 
GUhA | eliminate | no
 
predicates
 
BRIVLA | merge with GOhA | yes
 
CMENE | merge with GOhA | almost
 
LA | merge with LE | almost
 
lerfu
 
FOI | eliminate/merge with BY | no/yes
 
LAU | eliminate/merge with BY | no/yes
 
TEI | eliminate/merge with BY | no/yes
 
termsets
 
CEhE | eliminate | no
 
NUhI | eliminate | no
 
NUhU | eliminate | no
 
PEhE | eliminate | no
 
MEX
 
BIhE | eliminate | no
 
FUhA | eliminate | no
 
JOhI | eliminate | no
 
KUhE | eliminate | no
 
MAhO | eliminate | no
 
MOhE | eliminate | no
 
NAhU | eliminate | no
 
NIhE | eliminate | no
 
NUhA | eliminate | no
 
PEhO | eliminate | no
 
TEhU | eliminate | no
 
VEI | eliminate | no
 
VEhO | eliminate | no
 
VUhU | eliminate/merge with JOI | no
 
terminators
 
LOhO | eliminate/merge with BOI | no/yes
 
MEhU | merge with MOI | almost
 
odds and ends
 
COI | merge with DOI | yes
 
NIhO | merge with I | yes
 
CEI | eliminate | no
 
SA | eliminate | no
 
||
 
The surviving selma'o are:
 
BAI BAhE BE BEI BEhO BO BOI BU BY CO CU DOI DOhU FA FAhO FEhE FEhU FIhO GA GEhU GI GIhA GOI
 
GOhA I JAI JOI KE KEhE KEI KOhA KU KUhO LAhE LE LEhU LI LIhU LOhU LU LUhU MAI ME MOI NA NAhE
 
NOI NU PA ROI SE SEI SEhU SI SU TO TOI TUhE TUhU UI VAU VUhO XI Y ZEI ZIhE ZO ZOI ZOhU

Revision as of 17:14, 4 November 2013

{spero} - an unofficial gismu for 'Esperanto' (see also http://arj.nvg.org/lojban/unofficial-gismu.html).

First proposed (with a real chance back then of it becoming official!) by John Cowan: [1] , rejected at Logfest 91: [2].

According to proposal in chapter 4.16 of The Book, fu'ivla spe'ato can be used instead. How do you like this? -- kir
spe'anto is better, IMO. --Jay
But The Book explicitely suggests CCVVCV for cultural fu'ivla! -- kir
This being a strawpoll :-) , I'm diehard behind bangrnesperanto -- nitcion Maybe banrsperanto? Being hardcore fundamentalist, I avoid this as not being canonical per the Book. ???!!! How is it not canonical? Fine: "not the default strategy suggested."
Spero all the way! - .kreig.daniyl.
Well, I'm in favour of pacnybau. --tsali
Since I think we need to jettison all cultural gismu (except "lojbo") and replace them with stage threes, Esperanto is no exception! --xod
All the ire aroused by this comment was moved here.
pe'i it is okay to keep cultural gismu and add new ones so long as the existing ones lose their rafsi (in usage or in Ideal Lojban). See Boo to cultural gismu. --And Rosta
The idea of cultural gismu is totes inconsistent, considering the nature of Lojban. However, the prefixes and suffixes are sometimes useful. - Plastic Raven
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