https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=ralju_ckupau/en&feed=atom&action=historyralju ckupau/en - Revision history2024-03-28T18:14:10ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=ralju_ckupau/en&diff=74033&oldid=prevTsani at 16:40, 4 November 20132013-11-04T16:40:36Z<p></p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:40, 4 November 2013</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Without qualification, refers to the article ''</del>[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">http</del>:<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">//mw</del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lojban</del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">org/index</del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">php/File:Scientific_American_Loglan_Article,_by_James_Cooke_Brown.pdf Loglan</del>]'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">' written by [[James Cooke Brown]], and published in Scientific American in June 1960.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{{a}}{{Quote box</ins></div></td></tr>
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<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> |source = [</ins>[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Template</ins>:<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Latest News|More news</ins>...]<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">]</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">}}</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== Welcome to Lojban</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s wiki==</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">People who wish to read it, can borrow it from </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">reasonably </del>large <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">library, or they can ask [[TLI|TLI]] to send them </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">copy. That's how </del>[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">tsali|I</del>]] <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">got it. That was </del>in [<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[year1997|1997]</del>]<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, but if they have any copies left, they probably still mail them out for free to anyone who asks for them</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Lojban is a very carefully constructed spoken language designed in the hope of removing </ins>a large <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">portion of the ambiguity from human communication. It was made well-known by </ins>a [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Scientific American article</ins>]] <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">and references </ins>in [<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_Is_a_Harsh_Mistress#Influence%7Cscience fiction</ins>] <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Lojban has been built over five decades by dozens of workers and hundreds of supporters</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">It is currently available for downloading from this wiki</del>: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''[http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/File:Scientific_American_Loglan_Article,_by_James_Cooke_Brown.pdf Loglan].''</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Lojban has a number of features which make it unique</ins>:</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">=== Notable things about the description of Loglan as given </del>in the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">article ===</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*Lojban is designed to be used by people in '''communication''' with each other, and possibly </ins>in the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">future with computers.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The reason that </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">CV templates </del>of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the Loglan </del>words <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">turned out the way we all know and love, </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">not given</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">It only says: "The reader </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">challenged </del>to <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">find </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">combination </del>of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">possible word-forms that does not resolve</del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">"</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*Lojban is designed to be '''culturally neutral'''.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*Lojban has an '''unambiguous grammar''', which is based on </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''principles </ins>of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">logic'''.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*Lojban has '''phonetic spelling''', and unambiguous resolution of sounds into </ins>words<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*Lojban is '''simple''' compared to natural languages; it </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">easy to learn.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*Lojban's '''1300 root words''' can be easily combined to form a vocabulary of '''millions of words'''</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*Lojban </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">regular; the rules of the language are '''without exception'''.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*Lojban attempts </ins>to <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''remove restrictions''' on creative and clear thought and communication.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*Lojban has </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''variety </ins>of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">uses''', ranging from the creative to the scientific, from the theoretical to the practical</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The "little words" ([</del>[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre</del>: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">cmavo|cmavo]</del>]<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">) are unified as a class only semantically, not morphologically (phonotactically)</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The word classes preceding predicates (simple predicates (our gismu) and complex predicates (our lujvo)) were as follows:</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Interested? See and hear an </ins>[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">http</ins>:<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">//www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtEtnpdm7kI%7C example of spoken Lojban</ins>]. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">You can also see this page <span style="color</ins>:<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">#ff0000</ins>"<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">>[[la lojban</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">mo|written </ins>in Lojban<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">]]</span>.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Connectives</del>: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''V''' (the article actually says </del>".<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">V", but this is probably a typo; nothing is mentioned of obligatory pauses in front of vowel-initial words, the period isn't used in this way anywhere else </del>in <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the article, and as far as I can tell, this use of the period is strictly a </del>Lojban <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">innovation)</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Indicators: '''VV'''</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Operators</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** Simple operators: '''CV'''</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** Sentential operators: '''CVV'''</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** Compound operators: '''CV'CV''' (the article consistently uses an apostrophe '''after''' a syllable to indicate stress, this is probably what is intended here)</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The Loglan text that occurs in the tables in the article is written in all capitals, but the examples that occur inside the running text, is written in </del>the [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Standard Average European</del>|<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">SAE</del>]] <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">orthography that is common both to natural languages that use latinate scripts, and Loglan </del>of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">today. Still, there is some talk about audiovisual isomorphism, and</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[Learning|Learn Lojban now]] or read </ins>the [[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Lojban Introductory Brochure</ins>|<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">introductory brochure</ins>]] <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">for a more detailed description </ins>of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Lojban</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Loglan's "spoken punctuation" operators</del>.</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Most indicators (our attitudinals) were irrealis. In fact, there is a theoretical possibility that ALL of them were irrealis. If we entertain the possibility that even "ui" (our ".ui") turns a predicate into a non</del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">claim, that does not entail that it turns it into a claim of the opposite.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>-</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>{<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">{nuzba/jbo}</ins>}</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The only example of borrowing of vowel-final names, Mississippi, which becomes "lu misisipis", displays the addition of an ''s'' in the end, which is now the de facto standard of creating such names in Lojban (though not governed by any rules).</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">=== Things I don't understand about the Loglan description ===</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* The word ''nu'' is glossed as "un- [also passive voice of two-place predicates]". Does this mean that Loglan has or had a word that can mean both ''to'e'' and ''se''?</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** Not quite. As I recall, the example in JCB's head was a word (damn, I wish I could remember which) whose passive was in effect a opposite. And then he generalized, as often. The mess was cleared up (by pointing to a few other words, I suppose) long before the first version of Loglan 1 was cut. The SA article is very crude: even the vocab was not yet thoroughly worked out (eternal </del>{<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">blanu</del>} <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">notwithstanding)and the selection of cmavo was heavily influenced by typesetting, for some reason.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** Sometimes ''to'e'' and ''se'' have a similar effect in Lojban: ''to'e zunle'' = ''se zunle'' = ''pritu''.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[Category:dzejbo]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
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</table>Tsanihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=ralju_ckupau/en&diff=63607&oldid=prevGleki at 16:40, 4 November 20132013-11-04T16:40:28Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>Without qualification, refers to the article ''[http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/File:Scientific_American_Loglan_Article,_by_James_Cooke_Brown.pdf Loglan]'' written by [[James Cooke Brown]], and published in Scientific American in June 1960.<br />
<br />
People who wish to read it, can borrow it from a reasonably large library, or they can ask [[TLI|TLI]] to send them a copy. That's how [[tsali|I]] got it. That was in [[year1997|1997]], but if they have any copies left, they probably still mail them out for free to anyone who asks for them.<br />
<br />
It is currently available for downloading from this wiki: ''[http://mw.lojban.org/index.php/File:Scientific_American_Loglan_Article,_by_James_Cooke_Brown.pdf Loglan].''<br />
<br />
=== Notable things about the description of Loglan as given in the article ===<br />
The reason that the CV templates of the Loglan words turned out the way we all know and love, is not given. It only says: "The reader is challenged to find a combination of possible word-forms that does not resolve."<br />
<br />
The "little words" ([[jbocre: cmavo|cmavo]]) are unified as a class only semantically, not morphologically (phonotactically). The word classes preceding predicates (simple predicates (our gismu) and complex predicates (our lujvo)) were as follows:<br />
* Connectives: '''V''' (the article actually says ".V", but this is probably a typo; nothing is mentioned of obligatory pauses in front of vowel-initial words, the period isn't used in this way anywhere else in the article, and as far as I can tell, this use of the period is strictly a Lojban innovation)<br />
* Indicators: '''VV'''<br />
* Operators<br />
** Simple operators: '''CV'''<br />
** Sentential operators: '''CVV'''<br />
** Compound operators: '''CV'CV''' (the article consistently uses an apostrophe '''after''' a syllable to indicate stress, this is probably what is intended here)<br />
<br />
The Loglan text that occurs in the tables in the article is written in all capitals, but the examples that occur inside the running text, is written in the [[Standard Average European|SAE]] orthography that is common both to natural languages that use latinate scripts, and Loglan of today. Still, there is some talk about audiovisual isomorphism, and<br />
Loglan's "spoken punctuation" operators.<br />
<br />
Most indicators (our attitudinals) were irrealis. In fact, there is a theoretical possibility that ALL of them were irrealis. If we entertain the possibility that even "ui" (our ".ui") turns a predicate into a non-claim, that does not entail that it turns it into a claim of the opposite.<br />
<br />
The only example of borrowing of vowel-final names, Mississippi, which becomes "lu misisipis", displays the addition of an ''s'' in the end, which is now the de facto standard of creating such names in Lojban (though not governed by any rules).<br />
<br />
=== Things I don't understand about the Loglan description ===<br />
* The word ''nu'' is glossed as "un- [also passive voice of two-place predicates]". Does this mean that Loglan has or had a word that can mean both ''to'e'' and ''se''?<br />
** Not quite. As I recall, the example in JCB's head was a word (damn, I wish I could remember which) whose passive was in effect a opposite. And then he generalized, as often. The mess was cleared up (by pointing to a few other words, I suppose) long before the first version of Loglan 1 was cut. The SA article is very crude: even the vocab was not yet thoroughly worked out (eternal {blanu} notwithstanding)and the selection of cmavo was heavily influenced by typesetting, for some reason.<br />
** Sometimes ''to'e'' and ''se'' have a similar effect in Lojban: ''to'e zunle'' = ''se zunle'' = ''pritu''.<br />
[[Category:dzejbo]]</div>Gleki