https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=r2D2_Lojban&feed=atom&action=historyr2D2 Lojban - Revision history2024-03-28T09:58:08ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=r2D2_Lojban&diff=99924&oldid=prevConversion script: Conversion script moved page R2D2 Lojban to r2D2 Lojban: Converting page titles to lowercase2014-06-30T08:30:26Z<p>Conversion script moved page <a href="/papri/R2D2_Lojban" class="mw-redirect" title="R2D2 Lojban">R2D2 Lojban</a> to <a href="/papri/r2D2_Lojban" title="r2D2 Lojban">r2D2 Lojban</a>: Converting page titles to lowercase</p>
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</td></tr></table>Conversion scripthttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=r2D2_Lojban&diff=92876&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: " to ""2014-03-23T16:22:29Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: " to ""</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was sitting there thinking, "Gee, how do all these people understand what R2D2 is saying? Do they all really know R2D2-speak? Maybe he is just encoding their normal language in beeps!"</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I was sitting there thinking, "Gee, how do all these people understand what R2D2 is saying? Do they all really know R2D2-speak? Maybe he is just encoding their normal language in beeps!"</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*''Haven't seen episode 2 (yet?), but in the original trilogy C3PO translates for everybody. - mi'e. [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>.kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.]]''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*''Haven't seen episode 2 (yet?), but in the original trilogy C3PO translates for everybody. - mi'e. [[.kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.]]''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**i think luke directly responds to things R2D2 says towards the end of the original three. but maybe he was just picking up on concern in the beeps.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**i think luke directly responds to things R2D2 says towards the end of the original three. but maybe he was just picking up on concern in the beeps.</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=r2D2_Lojban&diff=92446&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-Z])" to "$1"2014-03-23T16:15:12Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-Z])" to "$1"</p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** logarithmic, etc, whatever.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** logarithmic, etc, whatever.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>i've had my computer searching for an optimal letter to frequency mapping for a few days now. currently it searchs the mapping space (3.5568e14 possibilities) randomly. i'll concoct something genetic algorithm-ism in a day or so to handle the end of the search. (a bit of statistical analysis says that my random search has already found mappings better than ~99.9999% of all mappings. (no, the number of 9s there is not arbitrary, but not exact either.] --[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>i've had my computer searching for an optimal letter to frequency mapping for a few days now. currently it searchs the mapping space (3.5568e14 possibilities) randomly. i'll concoct something genetic algorithm-ism in a day or so to handle the end of the search. (a bit of statistical analysis says that my random search has already found mappings better than ~99.9999% of all mappings. (no, the number of 9s there is not arbitrary, but not exact either.] --[[Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* '''''.a'ucai''' .e'o ko cusku le do velfancu''</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* '''''.a'ucai''' .e'o ko cusku le do velfancu''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Well, the idea is to have consonants which appear together as spread apart as possible. So, one finds the score for a mapping by, for each valid consonant pair, averaging the log distance between the two consonants. (2*log distance for initial consonant pairs, as you want a mapping to be rewarded more for making those clearer). we use the log, because once the consonants in a pair get a reasonable distance away from each other, they probably don't need to get any further away, so we lessen the reward to mappings which have a couple of consonants at either end of the mapping from each other. i think that makes some sense. let me know if anything needs to be clarified. right now the best mapping i've found has a score of 1.92589877. the mean is around 1.7, with a standard deviation of 0.4, if i recall correctly. (calculated assuming a normal distribution. so its up to the 5.6th standard deviation or so. :) --[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>** Well, the idea is to have consonants which appear together as spread apart as possible. So, one finds the score for a mapping by, for each valid consonant pair, averaging the log distance between the two consonants. (2*log distance for initial consonant pairs, as you want a mapping to be rewarded more for making those clearer). we use the log, because once the consonants in a pair get a reasonable distance away from each other, they probably don't need to get any further away, so we lessen the reward to mappings which have a couple of consonants at either end of the mapping from each other. i think that makes some sense. let me know if anything needs to be clarified. right now the best mapping i've found has a score of 1.92589877. the mean is around 1.7, with a standard deviation of 0.4, if i recall correctly. (calculated assuming a normal distribution. so its up to the 5.6th standard deviation or so. :) --[[Jay Kominek|Jay]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*** What's the frequency range? One octave? I assume you're using log to achieve the subjective (musical note) quality of a given frequency, as opposed to its linear frequency. Also, consider using non-spectral noises (hisses, pops) for vowels.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*** What's the frequency range? One octave? I assume you're using log to achieve the subjective (musical note) quality of a given frequency, as opposed to its linear frequency. Also, consider using non-spectral noises (hisses, pops) for vowels.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** the frequency range doesn't come into play in choosing the ordering. i was thinking i'll find the range over which the human ear is most sensitive and spread the frequencies across it evenly. (after digging up a bit on human tone perception to make sure that nothing will be masking anything else.)</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>**** the frequency range doesn't come into play in choosing the ordering. i was thinking i'll find the range over which the human ear is most sensitive and spread the frequencies across it evenly. (after digging up a bit on human tone perception to make sure that nothing will be masking anything else.)</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=r2D2_Lojban&diff=90270&oldid=prevGleki: Gleki moved page jbocre: R2D2 Lojban to R2D2 Lojban without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-Z])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:46:33Z<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=jbocre:_R2D2_Lojban&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="jbocre: R2D2 Lojban (page does not exist)">jbocre: R2D2 Lojban</a> to <a href="/papri/R2D2_Lojban" class="mw-redirect" title="R2D2 Lojban">R2D2 Lojban</a> without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: ([A-Z])" to "$1"</p>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=r2D2_Lojban&diff=75862&oldid=prevGleki at 17:09, 4 November 20132013-11-04T17:09:25Z<p></p>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">A '''glide''' </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''i''' or '''u''' when followed by a [[jbocre: Morphology: syllables ucleus]] </del>and <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">not followed by abother '''glide'''</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">This </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">called R2D2 Lojban for lack of any better descriptor, </ins>and <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">because I thought of it whilst watching R2D2 in episode 2</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">A '''diphthong''' is one of '''ai'''</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> '''au'''</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''ei''', '''oi''' not followed by a '''glide'''.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I was sitting there thinking</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">"Gee</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">how do all these people understand what R2D2 is saying? Do they all really know R2D2-speak? Maybe he is just encoding their normal language in beeps!"</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">A '''vowel''' is one of '''a</del>''', <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''</del>'e<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''', '''i''', '''o''', '''u''' not followed by a </del>[[jbocre: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Morphology: syllables ucleus</del>]].</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*</ins>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Haven</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">t seen episode 2 (yet?)</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">but in the original trilogy C3PO translates for everybody. - mi</ins>'e<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">. </ins>[[jbocre: <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.kreig.daniyl.|.kreig.daniyl.</ins>]]<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">**i think luke directly responds to things R2D2 says towards the end of the original three. but maybe he was just picking up on concern in the beeps</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''</del>a<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''' is any number </del>of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[[jbocre: Morphology: special characters ommas]] (possibly none) </del>and <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the character 'a' or 'A'</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">So, I was thinking one could encode Lojban in </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">series </ins>of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">tones. Just give each character its own tone, </ins>and <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">then slide between dipthongs in some easily recognized fashion</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''e''' is any number of [[jbocre: Morphology: special characters ommas]] </del>(<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">possibly none</del>) and the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">character '</del>e' <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">or 'E'</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">From my time fiddling around with writing software that generates DTMF tones for phone dialing, I know that I </ins>(<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">at least</ins>) <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">can recognize a pair of pure tones in about 35 milliseconds. Silence can be perceived in about 10 milliseconds. Make it 50ms </ins>and <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">25ms respectively to cover 99% of </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">bell curve. Then one can condense "</ins>e'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">osai ko sarji la lojban" down to 1 second</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''</del>i'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'' is any number of </del>[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">[jbocre</del>: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Morphology: special characters ommas</del>]<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">] (possibly none) and the character 'i' or 'I'</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* there are references which seem to indicate that humans can distinguish tone glides as short as 40 milliseconds. </ins>i'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ll try to accumulate good references tomorrow, but for now </ins>[<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">http</ins>:<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">//www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=difference+limen+tone+perception&btnG=Google+Search ry searching for "difference limen tone perception"</ins>].</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''o''' is any number of [[jbocre: Morphology: special characters ommas]] (possibly none) and the character 'o' or 'O'</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Not particularly useful, I suppose, but if ones computer could talk to them in Lojban, then this might be a way to let it talk to you faster</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''u''' is any number of [[jbocre</del>: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Morphology: special characters ommas]] (possibly none) and the character 'u' or 'U'.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Ideas for handling dipthongs</ins>:</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">y</del>''' is any <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">number </del>of [[jbocre: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Morphology: special characters ommas</del>]] (<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">possibly none</del>) <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">and </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">character </del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">y' or 'Y</del>'.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Generate the tones that correspond to both vowels in the dipthong at the same time, but put more energy into the tone which corresponds to the leading vowel. (Or trailing vowel, whichever.)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Slide linearly between the two vowel frequencies, first to second. (Probably easily confused.)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** logarithmic, etc, whatever.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i've had my computer searching for an optimal letter to frequency mapping for a few days now. currently it searchs the mapping space (3.5568e14 possibilities) randomly. i'll concoct something genetic algorithm-ism in a day or so to handle the end of the search. (a bit of statistical analysis says that my random search has already found mappings better than ~99.9999% of all mappings. (no, the number of 9s there is not arbitrary, but not exact either.] --[[jbocre: Jay Kominek|Jay]]</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* '''''.a'ucai</ins>''' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.e</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">o ko cusku le do velfancu</ins>''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** Well, the idea </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">to have consonants which appear together as spread apart as possible. So, one finds the score for a mapping by, for each valid consonant pair, averaging the log distance between the two consonants. (2*log distance for initial consonant pairs, as you want a mapping to be rewarded more for making those clearer). we use the log, because once the consonants in a pair get a reasonable distance away from each other, they probably don't need to get </ins>any <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">further away, so we lessen the reward to mappings which have a couple of consonants at either end of the mapping from each other. i think that makes some sense. let me know if anything needs to be clarified. right now the best mapping i've found has a score of 1.92589877. the mean is around 1.7, with a standard deviation </ins>of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">0.4, if i recall correctly. (calculated assuming a normal distribution. so its up to the 5.6th standard deviation or so. :) --</ins>[[jbocre: <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Jay Kominek|Jay</ins>]]</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*** What's the frequency range? One octave? I assume you're using log to achieve the subjective </ins>(<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">musical note</ins>) <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">quality of a given frequency, as opposed to its linear frequency. Also, consider using non-spectral noises (hisses, pops) for vowels.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">**** </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">frequency range doesn</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">t come into play in choosing the ordering. i was thinking i</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ll find the range over which the human ear is most sensitive and spread the frequencies across it evenly. (after digging up a bit on human tone perception to make sure that nothing will be masking anything else</ins>.<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">)</ins></div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=r2D2_Lojban&diff=65313&oldid=prevGleki at 17:06, 4 November 20132013-11-04T17:06:09Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><br />
A '''glide''' is '''i''' or '''u''' when followed by a [[jbocre: Morphology: syllables ucleus]] and not followed by abother '''glide'''.<br />
<br />
A '''diphthong''' is one of '''ai''', '''au''', '''ei''', '''oi''' not followed by a '''glide'''.<br />
<br />
A '''vowel''' is one of '''a''', '''e''', '''i''', '''o''', '''u''' not followed by a [[jbocre: Morphology: syllables ucleus]].<br />
<br />
'''a''' is any number of [[jbocre: Morphology: special characters ommas]] (possibly none) and the character 'a' or 'A'.<br />
<br />
'''e''' is any number of [[jbocre: Morphology: special characters ommas]] (possibly none) and the character 'e' or 'E'.<br />
<br />
'''i''' is any number of [[jbocre: Morphology: special characters ommas]] (possibly none) and the character 'i' or 'I'.<br />
<br />
'''o''' is any number of [[jbocre: Morphology: special characters ommas]] (possibly none) and the character 'o' or 'O'.<br />
<br />
'''u''' is any number of [[jbocre: Morphology: special characters ommas]] (possibly none) and the character 'u' or 'U'.<br />
<br />
'''y''' is any number of [[jbocre: Morphology: special characters ommas]] (possibly none) and the character 'y' or 'Y'.</div>Gleki