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Revision as of 08:29, 30 June 2014

<- Why the Book is Right and the ma'oste is Wrong

Times issue of the scope of vo'a has come up in the past:

Inspired by Jay Kominek's dictum that if you're going to rehash a debate, just go to the archives and live vicariously. :-)

(In the following, I highlight defenses, proposals, or usages of short-distance vo'a, and usages ambiguous between short- and long-distance: le catra be vo'a as suicide, or .abu djuno ledu'u by. prami vo'a where vo'a=by are short-distance. 'Logophoric' use refers to vo'a refering to the preceding sentence, which is agreed to be wrong.)

Old Lojban List (could only retrieve 100 of the 151 instances reported of vo'a. Jay?) So this is not complete.

Discussion:

Long:Short:Non-Commital: 7:2:1

People consistently Long:Short:Non-Commital: 3:2:1

Usage:

Long:Short:Other: 14:2:4

People consistently Long:Short:Non-Commital: 6:0:1 (Lojbab, Shoulson, Fine have varied.)

New Lojban list:

Discussion:

Long:Short:Non-Commital: 6:1:0

People consistently Long:Short:Non-Commital: 4:1:0

Usage:

Helsem:

[[I am excluding the original postings of Helsem's story, in favour of the aggregate posting [2]]

    • le vo'a, long-distance;
    • be vo'a, long-distance;
    • be vo'a, long-distance;
    • le vo'a, long-distance;
    • lenu vo'a, long-distance;
    • lenu vo'a, long-distance;
    • levo'a, long-distance;
    • ledu'u vo'a, long-distance;
    • lenu vo'a, long-distance;
    • lenu vo'a, ambiguous (mi xanka le karcynunpo'u calenu xruti vo'a le tcadu: I worry about my car trouble as i return to the City);
    • lenu vo'a, long-distance;
    • noi vo'a, long-distance;
    • lenu vo'a, long-distance;
    • ledu'u vo'a, long-distance;
    • lenu vo'a, long-distance;
    • lenu vo'a, long-distance (translation garbled: mi nu'o gasnu ge lenu do se xrani ginai lenu vo'a se xrani);
    • lenu vo'a, long-distance;
    • ge vo'a, short-distance? (ti'e ge le drata ba'o garkla je'a re lamji ginai vo'a facki le nu gleki) No real nesting here, though.
    • ledu'u vo'a, long-distance;
    • lesedu'u vo'a, long-distance;
    • ledu'u vo'a, long-distance;
    • lenu... poi vo'a, long-distance;
    • poi.. ledu'u vo'a, long-distance;
    • lenu vo'a, long-distance;

Counting the ge...gi vo'a as 'other':

Long:Short:Other: 43:2:4

Non-Helsem:

Not counting unintentionals.:

Long:Short:Other: 11:2:3

People consistently Long:Short:Other: 4:1:0 (Turner, Raizen, Llambias have been inconsistent, although the latter two are probably long-distance.)

Usage is often determined, natural language style, by conflicting interpretations. For example, when vo'a appears as an x1, you can be pretty sure it's not going to be short-distance.

Who is doing all this wonderful work? Thank you!

mi'e nitcion. For now, I'm done, and I'm going home. I doubt this actually proves much, but I'll polemicise another day...