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This page is an answer to the suggestion (1) of adopting a kind of chess-rating system for Lojban speakers:
some people on lojban irc are using this to coordinate an online game of nomic, with the authorization of the [[WikiMaster|WikiMaster]], so don't fiddle with it unless you know you're involved in the game.


"One way of doing this, that was suggested on IRC yesterday, is to set up a
http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/nomic.htm


system based on the ELO ranking system, which was originally designed
==== DeLong 24  ====


for the game of chess.<br />The way we are thinking of adapting this to Lojban is roughly as follows:<br />Each "match" is a conversation. After the conversation, both parties throw a secret ballot which indicates whether they thought themselves better or
Kominek 33


worse than their "opponent". If the ballots agree, a winner is designated
Reed 63


appropriately. If the ballots disagree, the conversation is treated as a
Robey -8


draw for the purposes of the ELO system."
* '''301.''' Transmute rule 207 into an immutable rule. passed unanimously
* ''302.'' Transmute rule 109 into a mutable rule. failed. split vote.


Many replies came to this suggestion, some concerning moral/ethical side, some concerning psychological side, more - technical.<br />
* ''303.'' Change rule 209 to read "At no time may there be more than 50 mutable rules." Failed, 3 against, 1 for.
* ''304.'' A -1 point penalty shall be given to those who take more than 10 minutes to make a rule. Failed 2 for, 2 against


I think that the main factor in taking decision on creating such system must be the benefit of the language. Will Lojban benefit from it, or not? It is dubious that the "players" will benefit from such "matches", either, since only they will be left to judge the winner of the talk. Besides, such conversations will probably be quite unvaried, as typical talks from ICQ's and chats are.
** '''END CIRCUIT 1'''
* ''305.'' Change rule 206 to read "When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 20 points.". Failed, 3 against, 1 for.


The main need of Lojban today (my opinion, of course!) is a large textual base, gathered in one place, each sentence/piece of text properly classified as "Correct Lojbanic" or "Wrong Lojbanic". This can be easily combined with rating system allowing constant increase of ratings - a feature that so attracts many RPG players! (:wink:)
* '''306.''' Transmute rule 201 into an immutable rule. pass unanimously.
* ''307.'' Amend rule 210 such that the second paragraph is eliminated, and 210 reads, in its entirety, as "Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates." Failed, two for, two against.


This could be at the same time a rating system for estimating the competence, activity and contribution to the language of those who write in Lojban.  
* ''308.'' The proposer of a rule shall be assumed to have voted yes for it. failed. 1 for, 3 against.
** '''END CIRCUIT 2'''


An outline of such measuring system may be like this:
* ''309.''  Transmute rule 105 to mutable status.  Failed, +2 -2.
* '''310.''' anyone mentioning "eris", goddess of discord in a proposal is awarded one point, in addition to whatever they may gain or lose due to the outcome of the proposal. passed, 3 to 1.


# '''Portions''', each consisting of one or more sentences in English or other non-Lojban language, are posted and stored on a server, categorized by topics.
* ''311.'' In tribute to "Eris", goddess of discord, rule 310 is transmuted to immutable. Failed, split vote.
* '''312.''' Rule 204 is ammended so that a player does not recieve 10 points for voting against a proposal if they were the last to vote. Passed 3 for, 1 against


# The goal is to have a number of correct translations of the portions into Lojban.
** '''END CIRCUIT 3'''
* ''313.'' All proposed rule-changes must be documented at [http://nuzban.wiw.org/wiki/index.php?Nomic] (herafter "The Wiki"), regardless of whether they pass.  The end of a turn is signified when The Wiki is updated.  Failed, split vote.


# Everyone is free to add new portions on the server.
* '''314.''' amend rule 213 so that the text "the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner" is changed to "the player who has the most points at the time is the winner." passed 3 to 1
* ''315.'' Enact a new rule which states, "Voting on a proposal does not begin until the proposer states in #lojbannomic on irc.openprojects.net the words, "By the grace of Eris, voting may begin.". Once those words have been stated by the proposer, no further changes may be made to the proposal." Failed, split vote.


# Everyone is free to add his/her translation of the portions.
* ''316.''  Eris, my wet dream of a goddess, caused me to ingest massive amounts of hallucinogens to come up with a kickass rule:  A player may create a new entity, called a "Corporation", during their rule proposal turn.  The corporation has the power to vote, however, the cost of the corporation is 30 points, which, when deducted from the player's points must still leave the player with a positive amount of points.  Naturally, the player controls the corporation's vote. Failed, split vote
** '''END CIRCUIT 4'''


# Everyone is free to mark any translation (by other people) of any portion as ''correct'' or ''incorrect'', with optional comments.
* '''317.''' rule 207 is hereby ammended to read "Each player is given one vote, plus any votes allocated to them under the affects of later rules.  No votes other than the afformentioned are afforded to a player."
* ''318.'' before a rule is proposed, any player may, if they desire, discard 50 points, and increase their votes by 1. if the player does not have at least positive 50 points, they make not acquire the extra vote. (but they may still chose to discard 50 points and not get the vote.) Hail Eris!  - defeated, split vote


# The weight of a translation varies between 0 and 1. It is 0, IF no one has approved it, and 1, IF (no one has disapproved it AND at least one person with non-zero level of contribution has approved it), OTHERWISE it is the special function, definition below.
* '''319.''' Eris told me that it would be a good idea to enact a rule stating that before the proposal phase of a player's turn, that player may transfer a positive amount of points to any other player, or allow another player to transfer a positive amount of points to the player whose turn it currently is, granted that in either case, the transfer is subject to mutual consent. Passed, 3:1.
* '''320.''' A player cannot recieve points from another player if it puts him within 40 points of the winning amount. passed 3 to 1.


# The level of contribution to the language is the sum of weights of all translations made by that person.
** '''END CIRCUIT 5'''
* ''321.'' At the beginning of any turn, any player may purchase shares in the "Eris Corporation" for 10 points.  After each future turn a dividend of 4 points is payed to a player for each share owned.  A player may not go below 0 points to purchase shares.  Failed 2:2.


The definition of the special function:<br />
* ''322.'' everyone's score, except for jay's, increases by 10 points, one time. failed split vote
* ''323'': In the name of Eris, I propose the following rule be enacted: "During the point transfer phase as created by rule 319, a player may transfer a positive sum equal to 1/8 of a second player's total score (which must also be positive) to that second player for 1 point of stock in the second player. At the end of each turn, every player holding stock gains or loses points equal to 1/8 of the points earned/lost by the player of whom stock is held, multiplied by the amount of stock points held by the stockholder. With all calculations performed for the purpose of this rule, results shall be rounded up to the nearest whole number." Failed, 1:3. Dirty bastards. ;)


Suppose ''N'' persons have marked a translation of a portion.<br />
* ''324.'' Eris has decreed that weaponry is allowed! At the begining of any turn a player may purchase a "Seeker" for 6 points.  This is a highly dangerous, one-time use weapon that will inflict 1 point of damage on the victim that the player aims the weapon at.  Unlimited quantities may be purchased.  A player may not go below 0 points to purchase seekers. Failed 1:3
** '''END CIRCUIT 6'''


Let ''Fi'' be equal 1, if the i-th person has approved the translation, and 0, if he/she has disapproved the translation.<br />
* ''325.'' Ammend rule 310 to exclude rules which include the name "eris" in a nonessential fasion such as "In the name of Eris, ..." or "Eris told me, ...".  Failed 3:1.
* '''326.''' repeal rule 209 passed 3 to 1


Let ''Ri'' be the rating (level of contribution) of the ''i''-th person.<br />
* '''327.''' During the monetary transfer phase of a player's turn (as prescribed by rule 319), that player may purchase a Factory (which produce dolls of Eris, quite the hot commodity, and oddity as well) for the price of 10 points. During this same phase, a player may transfer points to one of their factories. Passed, 3:1.
* ''328.'' Eris likes beer.  In tribute to beer, we can now hoard beer in the form of "Beer points"! Everyone is granted with 10 beer points and gains one beer point at the start of each new circuit.  Failed, split vote. Bastards!


Let ''T = SUM(i=1..N, Ri)'', i. e. the sum of ratings (levels of contribution) of all markers (those who mark, I mean).<br />
** '''END CIRCUIT 7'''
* ''329.'' Transmute rule 201 to immutable status.


Then the weight of the translation, ''x'', equals
* ''330.'' Rules proposed with a number one less than that of a prime number earn the proposer an extra point if they pass. failed split vote.
** Reed gives Delong 10 points. Delong accepts


''x = SUM(i=1..N, Fi * Ri / T)''.
* '''331.''' At the end of each player's turn, a Factory owned by that player will generate one point for every five points it has. Points generated by a Factory will be transferred to the player designated by its owner, or the points may remain in the factory. At no other time may points held by a Factory be transferred. Passed, 3:1.
* ''332.'' If a player successful passes a rule where its number is divisible by 7 or 11, he gains the use of Eris' Scepter, which grants him the power of 2 votes (1 additional vote) for 2 turns.  Failed, split vote.


It can be easily seen that the 'special function' works for 0- and 1- cases as well. :)
** '''END CIRCUIT 8'''
 
* '''333.''' transmute 207 to mutable status. passed 3:1
Since only posting translations will be leading to increase of the rating, some lojbanists may (although I don’t really believe in this) participate only in translating. So there must be formal means of encouraging not only translating, but also posting new portions (texts to translate) and reviewing / marking translations of others. For example, everyone may be able to make 10 translations from the beginning, but in order to make each next translation after those 10, he/she will have to post 0.5 portions and review / mark 4 translations of others.
 
Besides, people could estimate the translations of others by giving not only 1-s and 0-es, but also values in between:
 
||1|'Absolutely agree with this translation'
 
0.9|'The translation is correct, although I would have put this in other way'
 
0.5 – 0.7|'The translation would be correct after minor fixes'
 
0.3|'The translation is incorrect in general, but some moments were interesting / OK'
 
0|'Absolutely disagree with this translation / Written Nonsense / A copy of translation made before'||
 
Portions to translate won’t be equal in difficulty (compare “Me invent wheel” with an excerpt from Homer). So it would be reasonable to use a difficulty multiplier. The poster of a portion may specify its difficulty between 0.1 and 5, or leave it 1 by default. Of course estimating difficulty is also very subjective, so it may also be computed the same way as weights of translations were:
 
Multiplier is 1, if no one with non-zero rating has estimated it.
 
Otherwise, it is a value between 0.5 and 5, rating-averaged from estimates.
 
It will be great if newbies could filter out only easiest portions, with multiplier < 1, to translate. Vice versa, experienced Lojbanists could be interested in hard ones.
 
---
 
(1) Lojban-beginners mailing list, 17 November 2005.
 
'''A realization of such system, called "jboselkei", is being written by me in PHP. It will be finished (and I hope, available) in mid-late March 2006.'''
 
Update: Yanis unveiled jboselkei to the Lojban community on March 15. [http://www.lojban.org/jsk/ lick here to sign up and play.]

Latest revision as of 08:26, 30 June 2014

some people on lojban irc are using this to coordinate an online game of nomic, with the authorization of the WikiMaster, so don't fiddle with it unless you know you're involved in the game.

http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/writing/nomic.htm

DeLong 24

Kominek 33

Reed 63

Robey -8

  • 301. Transmute rule 207 into an immutable rule. passed unanimously
  • 302. Transmute rule 109 into a mutable rule. failed. split vote.
  • 303. Change rule 209 to read "At no time may there be more than 50 mutable rules." Failed, 3 against, 1 for.
  • 304. A -1 point penalty shall be given to those who take more than 10 minutes to make a rule. Failed 2 for, 2 against
    • END CIRCUIT 1
  • 305. Change rule 206 to read "When a proposed rule-change is defeated, the player who proposed it loses 20 points.". Failed, 3 against, 1 for.
  • 306. Transmute rule 201 into an immutable rule. pass unanimously.
  • 307. Amend rule 210 such that the second paragraph is eliminated, and 210 reads, in its entirety, as "Players may not conspire or consult on the making of future rule-changes unless they are team-mates." Failed, two for, two against.
  • 308. The proposer of a rule shall be assumed to have voted yes for it. failed. 1 for, 3 against.
    • END CIRCUIT 2
  • 309. Transmute rule 105 to mutable status. Failed, +2 -2.
  • 310. anyone mentioning "eris", goddess of discord in a proposal is awarded one point, in addition to whatever they may gain or lose due to the outcome of the proposal. passed, 3 to 1.
  • 311. In tribute to "Eris", goddess of discord, rule 310 is transmuted to immutable. Failed, split vote.
  • 312. Rule 204 is ammended so that a player does not recieve 10 points for voting against a proposal if they were the last to vote. Passed 3 for, 1 against
    • END CIRCUIT 3
  • 313. All proposed rule-changes must be documented at [1] (herafter "The Wiki"), regardless of whether they pass. The end of a turn is signified when The Wiki is updated. Failed, split vote.
  • 314. amend rule 213 so that the text "the first player unable to complete a turn is the winner" is changed to "the player who has the most points at the time is the winner." passed 3 to 1
  • 315. Enact a new rule which states, "Voting on a proposal does not begin until the proposer states in #lojbannomic on irc.openprojects.net the words, "By the grace of Eris, voting may begin.". Once those words have been stated by the proposer, no further changes may be made to the proposal." Failed, split vote.
  • 316. Eris, my wet dream of a goddess, caused me to ingest massive amounts of hallucinogens to come up with a kickass rule: A player may create a new entity, called a "Corporation", during their rule proposal turn. The corporation has the power to vote, however, the cost of the corporation is 30 points, which, when deducted from the player's points must still leave the player with a positive amount of points. Naturally, the player controls the corporation's vote. Failed, split vote
    • END CIRCUIT 4
  • 317. rule 207 is hereby ammended to read "Each player is given one vote, plus any votes allocated to them under the affects of later rules. No votes other than the afformentioned are afforded to a player."
  • 318. before a rule is proposed, any player may, if they desire, discard 50 points, and increase their votes by 1. if the player does not have at least positive 50 points, they make not acquire the extra vote. (but they may still chose to discard 50 points and not get the vote.) Hail Eris! - defeated, split vote
  • 319. Eris told me that it would be a good idea to enact a rule stating that before the proposal phase of a player's turn, that player may transfer a positive amount of points to any other player, or allow another player to transfer a positive amount of points to the player whose turn it currently is, granted that in either case, the transfer is subject to mutual consent. Passed, 3:1.
  • 320. A player cannot recieve points from another player if it puts him within 40 points of the winning amount. passed 3 to 1.
    • END CIRCUIT 5
  • 321. At the beginning of any turn, any player may purchase shares in the "Eris Corporation" for 10 points. After each future turn a dividend of 4 points is payed to a player for each share owned. A player may not go below 0 points to purchase shares. Failed 2:2.
  • 322. everyone's score, except for jay's, increases by 10 points, one time. failed split vote
  • 323: In the name of Eris, I propose the following rule be enacted: "During the point transfer phase as created by rule 319, a player may transfer a positive sum equal to 1/8 of a second player's total score (which must also be positive) to that second player for 1 point of stock in the second player. At the end of each turn, every player holding stock gains or loses points equal to 1/8 of the points earned/lost by the player of whom stock is held, multiplied by the amount of stock points held by the stockholder. With all calculations performed for the purpose of this rule, results shall be rounded up to the nearest whole number." Failed, 1:3. Dirty bastards. ;)
  • 324. Eris has decreed that weaponry is allowed! At the begining of any turn a player may purchase a "Seeker" for 6 points. This is a highly dangerous, one-time use weapon that will inflict 1 point of damage on the victim that the player aims the weapon at. Unlimited quantities may be purchased. A player may not go below 0 points to purchase seekers. Failed 1:3
    • END CIRCUIT 6
  • 325. Ammend rule 310 to exclude rules which include the name "eris" in a nonessential fasion such as "In the name of Eris, ..." or "Eris told me, ...". Failed 3:1.
  • 326. repeal rule 209 passed 3 to 1
  • 327. During the monetary transfer phase of a player's turn (as prescribed by rule 319), that player may purchase a Factory (which produce dolls of Eris, quite the hot commodity, and oddity as well) for the price of 10 points. During this same phase, a player may transfer points to one of their factories. Passed, 3:1.
  • 328. Eris likes beer. In tribute to beer, we can now hoard beer in the form of "Beer points"! Everyone is granted with 10 beer points and gains one beer point at the start of each new circuit. Failed, split vote. Bastards!
    • END CIRCUIT 7
  • 329. Transmute rule 201 to immutable status.
  • 330. Rules proposed with a number one less than that of a prime number earn the proposer an extra point if they pass. failed split vote.
    • Reed gives Delong 10 points. Delong accepts
  • 331. At the end of each player's turn, a Factory owned by that player will generate one point for every five points it has. Points generated by a Factory will be transferred to the player designated by its owner, or the points may remain in the factory. At no other time may points held by a Factory be transferred. Passed, 3:1.
  • 332. If a player successful passes a rule where its number is divisible by 7 or 11, he gains the use of Eris' Scepter, which grants him the power of 2 votes (1 additional vote) for 2 turns. Failed, split vote.
    • END CIRCUIT 8
  • 333. transmute 207 to mutable status. passed 3:1