https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=lojban_calligraphy&feed=atom&action=historylojban calligraphy - Revision history2024-03-28T21:27:47ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=lojban_calligraphy&diff=99336&oldid=prevConversion script: Conversion script moved page Lojban calligraphy to lojban calligraphy: Converting page titles to lowercase2014-06-30T08:21:54Z<p>Conversion script moved page <a href="/papri/Lojban_calligraphy" class="mw-redirect" title="Lojban calligraphy">Lojban calligraphy</a> to <a href="/papri/lojban_calligraphy" title="lojban calligraphy">lojban calligraphy</a>: Converting page titles to lowercase</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 08:21, 30 June 2014</td>
</tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-89437:rev-99336 -->
</table>Conversion scripthttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=lojban_calligraphy&diff=89437&oldid=prevGleki: Gleki moved page jbocre: Lojban calligraphy to Lojban calligraphy without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: L" to "L"2014-03-23T14:39:11Z<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=jbocre:_Lojban_calligraphy&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="jbocre: Lojban calligraphy (page does not exist)">jbocre: Lojban calligraphy</a> to <a href="/papri/Lojban_calligraphy" class="mw-redirect" title="Lojban calligraphy">Lojban calligraphy</a> without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: L" to "L"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:39, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-87708:rev-89437 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=lojban_calligraphy&diff=87708&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: b" to "b"2014-03-23T12:02:44Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: b" to "b"</p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:02, 23 March 2014</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l29">Line 29:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 29:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Most pensni are derived from the Roman alphabet, as this is the most commonly used script for writing Lojban. However, other alphabets may be used in calligraphy, and in some cases Lojban calligraphers might wish to modify a hand by borrowing just one or two letter forms from an alternate orthography or inventing a new pensni from scratch, typically as a Lojbanic way to fit a letter into the style of a hand being adapted to Lojban that didn't have a particular letter, such as k.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Most pensni are derived from the Roman alphabet, as this is the most commonly used script for writing Lojban. However, other alphabets may be used in calligraphy, and in some cases Lojban calligraphers might wish to modify a hand by borrowing just one or two letter forms from an alternate orthography or inventing a new pensni from scratch, typically as a Lojbanic way to fit a letter into the style of a hand being adapted to Lojban that didn't have a particular letter, such as k.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I'll be writing up a little the hand I use for what little Lojban calligraphy I've done lately, with pictures, and posting that for your enjoyment - but it will take me a little while. It's one that started life as me adapting Visigothic miniscule (would that be "vi'izgo minsulu pensniste" or some such?) before deciding I didn't like the more exotic glyphs the original contained in something that was trying to be at least partially legible and has undergone significant modification. When I get it up it will appear at [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>bontire pensniste|bontire pensniste]].</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I'll be writing up a little the hand I use for what little Lojban calligraphy I've done lately, with pictures, and posting that for your enjoyment - but it will take me a little while. It's one that started life as me adapting Visigothic miniscule (would that be "vi'izgo minsulu pensniste" or some such?) before deciding I didn't like the more exotic glyphs the original contained in something that was trying to be at least partially legible and has undergone significant modification. When I get it up it will appear at [[bontire pensniste|bontire pensniste]].</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>mu'o mi'e .kreig.daniyl.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>mu'o mi'e .kreig.daniyl.</div></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-75438:rev-87708 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=lojban_calligraphy&diff=75438&oldid=prevGleki at 17:02, 4 November 20132013-11-04T17:02:09Z<p></p>
<table style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122;" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 17:02, 4 November 2013</td>
</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l1">Line 1:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 1:</td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== Semantic issues ==</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I've been thinking about calligraphy and Lojban a bit lately. As I see it, the standard roman-alphabet miniscule hands map quite nicely onto Lojban - at least, if you extend them to include k, j, and v, which most don't have as independent letters.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Why were the forms </del>of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the gismu (root words) created from several languages</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rather than just one</del>, for <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">instance English?</del>'''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Would-be Lojban calligraphers probably need a fair amount </ins>of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">specialized vocabulary for talking about our craft</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">though. While calligraphic equipment is a different semantic category that I don't address here</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I suggest the following </ins>for <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">talking about hands (partly based on the fact that I</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">m going to write up how I do Lojban calligraphy soon and figure if I</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">m going to use opaque jargon it might as well be Lojban-language opaque jargon). I</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ve added suggested place structures. I am happy to have all these terms reviewed by others whose Lojban is a bit less out-of-practice than mine.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Because of the ideal of cultural neutrality</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">one wanted to make </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">learnability of the vocabulary the same, regardless </del>of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">one's native language</del>.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Letter forms in a particular calligraphic hand are pensni (pen marks)</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">while </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">hand itself is a pensniste (set </ins>of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">marks)</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Also, making the vocabulary of Lojban too similar </del>to a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">single language </del>(<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">English has been proposed many times, because it is widely </del>used<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">) would make learners who were familiar with that language import semantic and cultural baggage from that language -</del>- <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">what in linguistics terms is called a substrate language.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*pensni: x1 is a handwritten symbol used </ins>to <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">represent letter/lerfu x2<br></ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*pensniste: x1 is </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">calligraphic hand incorporating symbol</ins>(<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s) x2 </ins>used <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">to write text x3 in alphabet/character</ins>-<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">set x4</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''Why isn't </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">default base of </del>Lojban <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">numerals base</del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">sixteen?'''</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Pensni can represent jbolerfu, the Lojban letters, including y</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">y and denpa.bu (.) but not slaka.bu (,). They can also represent </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">letters not used in </ins>Lojban<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, such as h, q, and w; these are naljbolerfu. Furthermore, there may be other marks such as diacritics and the slaka.bu; these are nalyle'usni, or non</ins>-<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">letteral marks.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Because base</del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ten seems to be the easiest for humans to use.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*jbolerfu: x1 (la'e zo BY/word</ins>-<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">bu) is a letter in Lojban representing sound x2</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*naljbolerfu: x1 (la'e zo BY/word-bu) is a letter non-Lojban alphabet x2 representing x3</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">''Why </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">there </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gismu </del>(<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">root word</del>) <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">for X?'''</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*nalyle</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">usni: x1 </ins>is a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">symbol used with/in character set x2 to represent x3 </ins>(<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">which is not a letteral</ins>)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Depending on </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">specific X</del>, the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">answer could </del>be <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">one or more of the following:</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Some hands contain ligatures - special glyphs representing a pair of letters in sequence. These are jonle'u in Lojban. In European hands, an "et" jonle'u is probably the most common, since it is also used to represent </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">word "and" (Latin "et")</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">but in Lojban I believe </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">most useful jonle'u would </ins>be <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ones for "tc" and "dj".</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>* <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">It covers one of the base categories in Eaton</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s thesaurus</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>*<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jonle</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">u: x1 </ins>is a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">symbol in character set x2 representing letter sequence x3</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* It </del>is a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">common or important concept</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* The concept cannot </del>be <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">expressed </del>by <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">combining other gismu into a tanru </del>(<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">phrase compounds</del>) or <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lujvo </del>(<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">affix compounds</del>)</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Letters can </ins>be <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">represented </ins>by <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">glyphs that are miniscule </ins>(<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">lowercase</ins>) or <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">majuscule </ins>(<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">capital</ins>)<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">; hands may include one or both types of letters, but most calligraphic hands are not mixed-case. There is not an obvious lujvo for these concepts; I suggest the fu'ivla "minsulu" for miniscule and "kaptalo" for majuscule.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* It seems to be useful in compounds</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Why isn't there </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gismu (root word) for X?'''</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*minsulu: x1 is </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">miniscule letter/hand</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*kaptalo: x1 is a majuscule letter/hand</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Depending </del>on the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">specific X</del>, the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">answer could </del>be <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">one </del>or <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">more </del>of the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">following:</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">In English, hands are sometimes given names based </ins>on the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">culture they originated from, in addition to a descriptive term; I suggest using cultural gismu or fu'ivla as seltau in tanru used as hand names</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">possibly along with descriptive terms. Thus one of </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">major historical hands, Carolingian miniscule, might </ins>be <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">termed the "ka'olno minsulu pensniste" </ins>or <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">simply "ka'olno pensniste" (using the CVVCCV form which has been suggested for fu'ivla used as cultural designators to coin "ka'olno" for things relating to the culture </ins>of the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Carolingian empire) while the insular scripts might be collectively known as "brito pensniste".</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* The concept can </del>be <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">expressed </del>by <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">combining other gismu </del>into a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">tanru or lujvo</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Most pensni are derived from the Roman alphabet, as this is the most commonly used script for writing Lojban. However, other alphabets may </ins>be <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">used in calligraphy, and in some cases Lojban calligraphers might wish to modify a hand </ins>by <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">borrowing just one or two letter forms from an alternate orthography or inventing a new pensni from scratch, typically as a Lojbanic way to fit a letter </ins>into <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the style of a hand being adapted to Lojban that didn't have </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">particular letter</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">such as k.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* The concept is specific</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">or infrequently needed</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== Phonological issues ==</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I'll be writing up a little the hand I use for what little Lojban calligraphy I've done lately, with pictures, and posting that for your enjoyment - but it will take me a little while. It's one that started life as me adapting Visigothic miniscule (would that be "vi'izgo minsulu pensniste" or some such?) before deciding I didn't like the more exotic glyphs the original contained in something that was trying to be at least partially legible and has undergone significant modification. When I get it up it will appear at [[jbocre: bontire pensniste|bontire pensniste]].</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'If rafsi (combining forms) unambiguously refer to one gismu (root word), and it is shorter than a gismu, why have not CVCCV/CCVCV gismu at all? Why not use rafsi as brivla (predicate words)?'''</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">mu</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">o mi</ins>'e .<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">kreig</ins>.<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">daniyl</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Because the current system of self-segregation would break down. Specifically, tanru (phrase compounds) and lujvo (affix compounds) would be indistinguishable. Tanru and lujvo have widely differing semantic properties. Tanru are vague and made up on the fly; lujvo are specific and re-used over and over again. In linguistics terms, lujvo are lexicalised, while tanru are not. Such a language would either have no lexicalised compounds (and hence the vocabulary would be expandable through loan words, if at all), or it would be like some natural languages, in which, upon seeing some unknown sequence of words, can't be certain whether they are meant as a sequence or as a unit with a specific meaning.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Also, some rafsi have the same form as cmavo (grammatical words), so they would be ambiguous.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">An artificial language that does use single-syllable root words is [http://www.geocities.com/ceqli/Uploadexp.htm eqli].</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Why weren't numeral words selected so that if sorted in alphabetical order, a number would also sort in numerical order?'''</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">The idea likely didn't occur to the designers at that time.</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Also, the common way of assigning series of cmavo (grammatical words) is to have the initial consonant the same, but vowels in ascending order (a, </del>e<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, i, o, u; or i, a, u)</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Doing this with numerals is not possible, because there are more than five of them</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Also, an important principle in creating Lojban numerals was that they were to be maximally distinct</del>.</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'''Why does Lojban use the ' (apostrophe) symbol for the /h/ phoneme, instead of h?'''</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">== Syntactical issues ==</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<!-- diff cache key mediawiki:diff::1.12:old-64908:rev-75438 -->
</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=lojban_calligraphy&diff=64908&oldid=prevGleki at 16:57, 4 November 20132013-11-04T16:57:47Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><br />
== Semantic issues ==<br />
<br />
'''Why were the forms of the gismu (root words) created from several languages, rather than just one, for instance English?'''<br />
<br />
Because of the ideal of cultural neutrality, one wanted to make the learnability of the vocabulary the same, regardless of one's native language.<br />
<br />
Also, making the vocabulary of Lojban too similar to a single language (English has been proposed many times, because it is widely used) would make learners who were familiar with that language import semantic and cultural baggage from that language -- what in linguistics terms is called a substrate language.<br />
<br />
'''Why isn't the default base of Lojban numerals base-sixteen?'''<br />
<br />
Because base-ten seems to be the easiest for humans to use.<br />
<br />
'''Why is there a gismu (root word) for X?'''<br />
<br />
Depending on the specific X, the answer could be one or more of the following:<br />
<br />
* It covers one of the base categories in Eaton's thesaurus<br />
* It is a common or important concept<br />
<br />
* The concept cannot be expressed by combining other gismu into a tanru (phrase compounds) or lujvo (affix compounds)<br />
* It seems to be useful in compounds<br />
<br />
'''Why isn't there a gismu (root word) for X?'''<br />
<br />
Depending on the specific X, the answer could be one or more of the following:<br />
<br />
* The concept can be expressed by combining other gismu into a tanru or lujvo<br />
* The concept is specific, or infrequently needed<br />
<br />
== Phonological issues ==<br />
<br />
'''If rafsi (combining forms) unambiguously refer to one gismu (root word), and it is shorter than a gismu, why have not CVCCV/CCVCV gismu at all? Why not use rafsi as brivla (predicate words)?'''<br />
<br />
Because the current system of self-segregation would break down. Specifically, tanru (phrase compounds) and lujvo (affix compounds) would be indistinguishable. Tanru and lujvo have widely differing semantic properties. Tanru are vague and made up on the fly; lujvo are specific and re-used over and over again. In linguistics terms, lujvo are lexicalised, while tanru are not. Such a language would either have no lexicalised compounds (and hence the vocabulary would be expandable through loan words, if at all), or it would be like some natural languages, in which, upon seeing some unknown sequence of words, can't be certain whether they are meant as a sequence or as a unit with a specific meaning.<br />
<br />
Also, some rafsi have the same form as cmavo (grammatical words), so they would be ambiguous.<br />
<br />
An artificial language that does use single-syllable root words is [http://www.geocities.com/ceqli/Uploadexp.htm eqli].<br />
<br />
'''Why weren't numeral words selected so that if sorted in alphabetical order, a number would also sort in numerical order?'''<br />
<br />
The idea likely didn't occur to the designers at that time.<br />
<br />
Also, the common way of assigning series of cmavo (grammatical words) is to have the initial consonant the same, but vowels in ascending order (a, e, i, o, u; or i, a, u). Doing this with numerals is not possible, because there are more than five of them. Also, an important principle in creating Lojban numerals was that they were to be maximally distinct.<br />
<br />
'''Why does Lojban use the ' (apostrophe) symbol for the /h/ phoneme, instead of h?'''<br />
<br />
== Syntactical issues ==</div>Gleki