lojban Brochures: Difference between revisions

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The ''lange'u'' example is in [[the Book|the Book]] on pp. 290-291, chapter 12.14.
== Flyers ==


----
John Cowan has made the so-called "Level -2" package, one page


I think it sounds like an especially wooly dog, or maybe a genetic cross between a dog and a sheep.
(double-sided) flyer suitable for handing out at conventions an the


This is ''not'' a [[jbocre: seljvajvo|seljvajvo]] lujvo in the meaning of ''sheepdog''; it is anomalous.
like.  This flyer requires nothing more than a double-sided printer.


I would use langumtro. The ''gerku'' part is probably redundant in most contexts.
* [http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/level-2.pdf evel -2 in PDF format]
* [http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/level-2.doc evel -2 in Microsoft Word (.doc) format]


...except the most important ones!  A ''lamguntro'' could be a fence around a sheep pen. --[[jbocre: John Cowan|John Cowan]]
* [http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/level-2.sxw evel -2 in OpenOffice 1.1 (.sxw) format]


Then say enough to be clear when it matters! But if it's clear what you're talking about just ''gerku'' or ''jitro'' is probably better [[jbocre: Lojban Style|Lojban Style]].
Jay Kominek has made another one page (double-sided) flyer which


The idea of ''seljvajvo'' is not that you can determine what a lujvo means by its components, but that you can determine its '''place structure''' by its components. ''jitro'' wouldn't contribute any places to the place structure. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]
is prettier than John Cowan's but has the disadvantage of requiring


What in the world is the point of knowing the place structure without knowing the meaning (=what the relationship is between the components)!? If you have to guess at the meaning, the lujvo will most likely become a [[jbocre: malglico|malglico]] mess. -- [[jbocre: Adam|Adam]]
folding.


* If you have to guess at the meaning, it's because you're using lujvo and that's how they work. (Didn't you recently object to ''le'' as well? ''No, I've never objected to "le".'' Your ideas are many years too late.) The idea of lujvo is that they have a commonly-accepted definition, and that if you happen to not know the definition the rafsi will at least give you a good guess. The rafsi do '''not''' define the lujvo.
* {file name=lojbanbrochure.pdf desc="Jay's Brochure" page="Jay's Lojban Brochure"}
** No, the [[jbocre: gismu deep structure|gismu deep structure]] does. The rafsi should be as close to the gismu deep structure as possible.
* {file name=lojbanbrochurea4.pdf desc="Jay's Brochure for A4 paper" page="Jay's Lojban Brochure"}


* The only thing which precisely specifies the meaning is a [[jbocre: gismu deep structure|gismu deep structure]]: ''gerku je jai seji'o lanme'', or if you don't mind getting sumti involved, ''gerku beseji'o lo lanme''.
* {file name=lojbanbrochurea4-fr.pdf desc="Jay's Brochure in French, by Greg Dyke" page="Jay's Lojban Brochure"}
** Right, so why do you support deviating from the rafsi which most closely reflect the gismu deep structure? The closer the rafsi stick to the GDS the easier it is to guess the meaning. A lujvo with no elided rafsi can only have a couple of possible meanings. One with elided rafsi has to choose from a pontentially infinite number of meanings, and if there are a lot of lujvo like that, then we all have some major (and unnecessary) dictionary memorizing to do. ''A side note on gismu deep structures: the gismu deep structure is an unambiguous phrasing of the tanru/lujvo, and contains no tanru or sumti tcica (which simply are replaced by another gismu), and all the sumti necessary. ("je" should really be "gi'e", but since there's really no confusion it doesn't make a huge difference.)''
* {file name=lojbanbrochurea4-fr-greg.pdf desc="Jay's Brochure in French, by Greg Dyke, with Greg Dyke's information in the contact info box" page="Jay's Lojban Brochure"}


* Also, [[jbocre: seljvajvo|seljvajvo]] couldn't give you the place structure without the meaning. Knowing the meaning beforehand is necessary in order to use seljvajvo, and therefore invoking seljvajvo while arguing about the meaning of a word makes no sense. This isn't a mysterious art; it's all there in chapter 12 of the book. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]
== Lojban Introductory Brochure ==
** I don't think I understand what you're saying. I choose an unambiguous structure such as ''gerku gi'e jitro lo gunma be loi lanme'', which then becomes the [[jbocre: gismu deep structure DS|gismu deep structure DS]] and the meaning. It is then a straightforward process to turn it into a tanru, ''lanme gunma jitro gerku'', and from there into a clear lujvo, ''langumtroge'u''. I can use the [[jbocre: seljvajvo|seljvajvo]] rules on each seltau-tertau pair to come up with the place structure for the whole thing. Because I went strictly according to this proceedure, someone else seeing the lujvo for the first time can reconstruct the GDS with a minimal amount of guessing, and can use it perfectly, since they know its exact definition. They don't have to worry that meaning has been restricted or completely changed by elided rafsi.


Can I at this point remind people of the difference between sense (''smuni'') and reference (''se sinxa'')? The practical result of seljvajvo may indeed be deriving the place structure; but this is only possible because you've already isolated a particular sense (X be Y, X be lenu Y, X je Y, etc.) -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]].
The basic Lojban introductory brochure is available in the following languages:


''Do you care to elaborate on this?''
* [http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/brochure_english.txt nglish]
* [http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/brochure_espanol.txt spañol]


The classic Frege example of the evening star and the morning star. They have different definitions (the star that appears in the evening, the star that appears in the morning), but as we found out later on, the same referent (Venus). The place structure helps narrow down the reference of the lujvo; the underlying relation ([[jbocre: gismu deep structure|(gismu deep structure]]), I contend, narrows down the sense, and is the cause rather than the effect here.
* [http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/brochure_esperanto.tex speranto, in TeX format]
* [http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/brochure_esperanto.html speranto, in HTML format]


This means of course that Frege also enters the ''Lojban and Logic'' links. :-) -- [[User:Nick Nicholas|nitcion]]
* [http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/brochure_french.txt rançais]
* [http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/brochure_russian.html usskiy][http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/rusbrochure.html usskiy (HTML format)]
 
== Other Brochure Related Files ==
 
* A [http://www.lojban.org/publications/brochures/brochure.short hort version] of the English brochure, suitable for posting on BBSes and in Usenet
* An shortened [[Lojban Introductory Brochure TML version|Lojban Introductory Brochure TML version]] of the English brochure, more easily readable with a browser.
 
These versions are not all equally up-to-date, as we have few resources for any
 
language but English, but they are substantially equivalent. In case of doubt,
 
the English version is the most correct.

Latest revision as of 08:21, 30 June 2014

Flyers

John Cowan has made the so-called "Level -2" package, one page

(double-sided) flyer suitable for handing out at conventions an the

like. This flyer requires nothing more than a double-sided printer.

Jay Kominek has made another one page (double-sided) flyer which

is prettier than John Cowan's but has the disadvantage of requiring

folding.

  • {file name=lojbanbrochure.pdf desc="Jay's Brochure" page="Jay's Lojban Brochure"}
  • {file name=lojbanbrochurea4.pdf desc="Jay's Brochure for A4 paper" page="Jay's Lojban Brochure"}
  • {file name=lojbanbrochurea4-fr.pdf desc="Jay's Brochure in French, by Greg Dyke" page="Jay's Lojban Brochure"}
  • {file name=lojbanbrochurea4-fr-greg.pdf desc="Jay's Brochure in French, by Greg Dyke, with Greg Dyke's information in the contact info box" page="Jay's Lojban Brochure"}

Lojban Introductory Brochure

The basic Lojban introductory brochure is available in the following languages:

Other Brochure Related Files

These versions are not all equally up-to-date, as we have few resources for any

language but English, but they are substantially equivalent. In case of doubt,

the English version is the most correct.