https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=logic_Language_Draft_3.1&feed=atom&action=historylogic Language Draft 3.1 - Revision history2024-03-28T12:05:53ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.38.4https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=logic_Language_Draft_3.1&diff=99288&oldid=prevConversion script: Conversion script moved page Logic Language Draft 3.1 to logic Language Draft 3.1: Converting page titles to lowercase2014-06-30T08:21:12Z<p>Conversion script moved page <a href="/papri/Logic_Language_Draft_3.1" class="mw-redirect" title="Logic Language Draft 3.1">Logic Language Draft 3.1</a> to <a href="/papri/logic_Language_Draft_3.1" title="logic Language Draft 3.1">logic Language Draft 3.1</a>: Converting page titles to lowercase</p>
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</table>Conversion scripthttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=logic_Language_Draft_3.1&diff=91283&oldid=prevGleki: Text replace - "jbocre: ([L-Z])" to "$1"2014-03-23T14:55:42Z<p>Text replace - "jbocre: ([L-Z])" to "$1"</p>
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</tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l83">Line 83:</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Which brings us back to an earlier question: are {lo broda cu brode}, {su'o lo broda cu brode}, {su'o broda cu brode} {da poi broda cu brode} and {da broda ije da brode} all the same? Is there a grammatical clue to a distinction between a quantifier and a descriptor here? Are there contexts in which using one rather than the other makes a difference -- especially in truth value, but in pragmatic ways as well? The previous discussion shows that the answer to the last one is "Yes." So, the second question -- and thus the first -- is significant. CLL and tradition seem to come down rather heavily on the side of "Yes" for the first question and so "No" for the second. Is there a way to introduce a break in this pattern? At the moment, there does not seem to be. The matter is not terribly pressing (it can go into LoCCan), since the hard cases are rare; none seem to have occurred so far -- or at least to have been notice.</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Which brings us back to an earlier question: are {lo broda cu brode}, {su'o lo broda cu brode}, {su'o broda cu brode} {da poi broda cu brode} and {da broda ije da brode} all the same? Is there a grammatical clue to a distinction between a quantifier and a descriptor here? Are there contexts in which using one rather than the other makes a difference -- especially in truth value, but in pragmatic ways as well? The previous discussion shows that the answer to the last one is "Yes." So, the second question -- and thus the first -- is significant. CLL and tradition seem to come down rather heavily on the side of "Yes" for the first question and so "No" for the second. Is there a way to introduce a break in this pattern? At the moment, there does not seem to be. The matter is not terribly pressing (it can go into LoCCan), since the hard cases are rare; none seem to have occurred so far -- or at least to have been notice.</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Logic Language Draft 1.1]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Logic Language Draft 1.1]]</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>Logic Language Draft 2.1]]</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>[[Logic Language Draft 2.1]]</div></td></tr>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>pc:</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>pc:</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Over night I have come to the position that it really is a recto-verso matter (even or odd number of negations in AND-NOT normal form)for the smallest chunk that contains all the occurrences of the variable. Thus, I would now reject numbers 3 and 4 from your list, since the container is an unnegated AND, but also 5 and 6, where the container is a negated AND [[<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">jbocre: </del>P OR Q) is NOT(NOT P AND NOT Q|P OR Q) is NOT(NOT P AND NOT Q]]. I have to admit that I am not completely happy about 5, but everything else seems clearly right. Of course, spotting side on the fly is no snap, so maybe some other plan would be better for Lojban, whatever its consequence logically. But, as a rule of thumb, if the whole scope is atomic or conjunction or U, then the occurrence is recto (the quantifier on the outside is unchanged), otherwise it is verso (quantifier changed). Of course, that scope may be buried and thus be further changed as the quantifier is moved to the front of the whole compound.</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>Over night I have come to the position that it really is a recto-verso matter (even or odd number of negations in AND-NOT normal form)for the smallest chunk that contains all the occurrences of the variable. Thus, I would now reject numbers 3 and 4 from your list, since the container is an unnegated AND, but also 5 and 6, where the container is a negated AND [[P OR Q) is NOT(NOT P AND NOT Q|P OR Q) is NOT(NOT P AND NOT Q]]. I have to admit that I am not completely happy about 5, but everything else seems clearly right. Of course, spotting side on the fly is no snap, so maybe some other plan would be better for Lojban, whatever its consequence logically. But, as a rule of thumb, if the whole scope is atomic or conjunction or U, then the occurrence is recto (the quantifier on the outside is unchanged), otherwise it is verso (quantifier changed). Of course, that scope may be buried and thus be further changed as the quantifier is moved to the front of the whole compound.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The "something" cases are a bit risky to use; at most they show that the universal reading of particulars is not unprecedented, but they cannot be generalized. I would suppose that "Something gold is valuable" needs {roda} in Lojban (unless "something" is /smthn/, in which case the claim is not universal anyhow).</div></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>The "something" cases are a bit risky to use; at most they show that the universal reading of particulars is not unprecedented, but they cannot be generalized. I would suppose that "Something gold is valuable" needs {roda} in Lojban (unless "something" is /smthn/, in which case the claim is not universal anyhow).</div></td></tr>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=logic_Language_Draft_3.1&diff=89612&oldid=prevGleki: Gleki moved page jbocre: Logic Language Draft 3.1 to Logic Language Draft 3.1 without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: L" to "L"2014-03-23T14:41:50Z<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=jbocre:_Logic_Language_Draft_3.1&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="jbocre: Logic Language Draft 3.1 (page does not exist)">jbocre: Logic Language Draft 3.1</a> to <a href="/papri/Logic_Language_Draft_3.1" class="mw-redirect" title="Logic Language Draft 3.1">Logic Language Draft 3.1</a> without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: L" to "L"</p>
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</table>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=logic_Language_Draft_3.1&diff=75408&oldid=prevGleki at 17:02, 4 November 20132013-11-04T17:02:07Z<p></p>
<a href="https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=logic_Language_Draft_3.1&diff=75408&oldid=64878">Show changes</a>Glekihttps://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=logic_Language_Draft_3.1&diff=64878&oldid=prevGleki at 16:57, 4 November 20132013-11-04T16:57:45Z<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><br />
[[jbocre: la lojbangirz|la lojbangirz]] is the Lojban name of [[jbocre: The Logical Language Group|The Logical Language Group]].<br />
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''(The Lojbaneers)''<br />
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ni'o lei lujvo pe la noras. cu jai vecu'u stidi tu'a zo jbogri</div>Gleki