https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=justice&feed=atom&action=history
justice - Revision history
2024-03-29T12:25:51Z
Revision history for this page on the wiki
MediaWiki 1.38.4
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=justice&diff=89769&oldid=prev
Gleki: Gleki moved page jbocre: justice to justice without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: ([a-z])" to "$1"
2014-03-23T14:44:12Z
<p>Gleki moved page <a href="/index.php?title=jbocre:_justice&action=edit&redlink=1" class="new" title="jbocre: justice (page does not exist)">jbocre: justice</a> to <a href="/papri/justice" title="justice">justice</a> without leaving a redirect: Text replace - "jbocre: ([a-z])" to "$1"</p>
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 14:44, 23 March 2014</td>
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Gleki
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=justice&diff=75167&oldid=prev
Gleki at 16:55, 4 November 2013
2013-11-04T16:55:59Z
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 16:55, 4 November 2013</td>
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<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">It</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s easy to talk about visible light</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">or about radio</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">or about the electromagnetic spectrum as a whole, but what about the other major regions of the spectrum?</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'jikca marde''</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'social morals'; ''ve drani'' 'standard of correctness'; & ''pairvu'e'' 'judgment-virtue' have all been offered. (And ''zoity. ruv ty.''</ins>,</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* infrared</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">not entirely in jest.)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** A first try: le me'i xunre se dirce or, by extension, mecyxunseldi'e -- [[jbocre: RobinLeePowell|RobinLeePowell]]</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">*** Um</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I translate that as "less red radiation". Not "less-than-red radiation"</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">which would require the ''me'i'' to describe a property of ''xunre'' somehow - a red light that diminishes in brightness would emit ''le me'i xunre se dirce''.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ka pairvu'e (cf</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">tolpaivu'e</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">from lujvo list)</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* ultraviolet</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* x-rays</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">used </ins>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">drazba</ins>'' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">in broken phone, because I was thinking of "justice"</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** The name "x-ray" is purely conventional. </del>I <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">don</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">t have any better idea than </del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'xy. zei gusni''. ''mi'e [[jbocre: jezrax|jezrax]]</del>''</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(You really have to use ''boxna'' (pleeeeease no "red" or "violet" calques!):</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">in the sense of the actual physical action of making things right,</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'gusni xe boxna barda (cmalu) se dukse fi lenu viska narkakne'' or just</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">i.e., retribution or restitution. It</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s clearly a polysemous word in</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'gusxembonbra(cma)du'e'' for short...</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">English, so there</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s no reason to expect a single lujvo will do it</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Why is it a calque to say something involving "red" or "violet"? If I describe infrared as "beyond</del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">red light" (bancu xunre gusni</del>)<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">, isn't it correct?</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">justice. :</ins>-)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** I like ''bacyxungu'i'' and ''bacyblagu'i''. They're a little vague but seem clear enough for everyday use. Scientists will definitely prefer ''boxna'' when being technical. ''mi'e [[jbocre: jezrax|jezrax]]''</del></div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Incidentally, your tanru doesn</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">t work (</del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">gusni xe boxna barda dukse</del>'' <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">is a kind of </del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">dukse'' - not something excessive, but </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">excess itself) and if you can come up with a seljvajvo place structure for ''gusxembonbradu'e'', more power to you. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab</del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">spir]]</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">mi poi pajni cu stidi zo </ins>'''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">kamdrapai</ins>''' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">po</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">u zoigy. </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">quality of judging right/correct gy</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">...but wouldn</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">t it be </del>a <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">good use for our MEX</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">That</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s also </ins>a <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">meaning of "justice"; the administration of justice generally</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">notation if we were </del>to <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">specify the actual range of wavelengths that define these</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">requires that a controversy be brought </ins>to <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">a judge who judges who are what is</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">terms? e.g.</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">"right" under the circumstances; but then there is also the concomitant fine,</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* near UV ''boxna fu su'evo decmiktre</del>''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">restitution, punishment, or whatever that </ins>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">rectifies</ins>'' (i<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">.e.</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">makes right</ins>)</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* infrared ''boxna fu su'ozepivo decmiktre</del>'' (<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">though </del>i <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">am used to using Angstroms</del>, <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">it seems silly to talk about 4000 or 7400 of a ten-billionth of a meter in Lojban</del>)</div></td><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-added"></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td><td class="diff-marker"></td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><br/></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">** </del>So <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">why do </del>you <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">talk </del>about <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">7</del>.<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">4 of a ten-millionth of a meter rather than 740 billionths? </del>I <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">think using nm for wavelengths </del>of <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">light around </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">visible range </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">well established</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(My real quibble </del>is <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">with </del>the <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">non-</del>power<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-</del>of<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-10^3 used here</del>: <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">10^-7 seems like an illogical base </del>when <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">10^</del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">9 </del>or <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">10^</del>-<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">6 will do </del>-- <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">and require only one prefix rather than two.) That would then become </del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">su</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">evonono navytre</del>'' <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">and </del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">su</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ozevono navytre</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">', respectively</del>. <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">mi'e filip</del></div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the situation. </ins>So <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">if </ins>you<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">'re talking </ins>about <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the judgment, certainly ''le ka drapai'' is better; but after the judge ''drapai''s, he must ''drazba''</ins>.</div></td></tr>
<tr><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="−"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">* Are you looking at the same ''[[jbocre: gimste|gimste]]</del>'' I <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">am</del>? <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Mine gives wavelength </del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">velbo'a</del>'', <del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">frequency </del>''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">xelbo'a'', so </del>you want ''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">fo'' not ''fu</del>''. ''<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">mi</del>'<del style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">e [[jbocre: jezrax|jezrax]]</del>''</div></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">In my experience, when people say something like "We demand justice", it is</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">the ''drazba'' they want, not just the ''drapai''.</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>I <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">almost agree. Yet, from my point </ins>of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">view </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">drapai (and hence the kamdrapai) covers both, the judgment "what </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">formally regarded to be right" and the judgment (=the formal order) what has to be done in order to "execute" this judgment</ins>. <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">That means that the execution of a judgment </ins>is <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">just a consequence, getting its legal/moral/ethical, or what have you, power only from drapai. Having </ins>the <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">judgment carried out accordingly is drazba, necessary to fulfill drapai, but this isn't what we call justice, since just being a moreorless "mechanical" act without juridicial </ins>power of <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">its own. (Although I'm not talking of criminal law exclusively, nevertheless this picture to point it out</ins>: <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">it is not "justice" what people might feel/call </ins>when <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">seeing a man hanging from a tree, but just drazba </ins>- or <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">maybe even not!).</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">-</ins>---</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">Then how do you say, "If you want peace, work for justice"?</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">How about </ins>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ganai do djica le nu panpi gi le nu gunka be fi -justice cu xamgu</ins>''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">stidi lu ganai do djica lenu panpi gi ko gunka fi lenu lo kamdrapai ba za</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">irgau li</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">u</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">I</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">m not so sure about </ins>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ganai... gi... ko..</ins>.''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">. X implies that </ins>I <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">command you to Y</ins>? <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"> Certainly </ins>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">le nu ko...</ins>'' <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">might make some sense</ins>, <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">but that</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s not what we</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">re saying here. If </ins>you want <ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">to keep the comand form, I</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">d suggest:</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>''<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">ja</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">e </ins>.<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">a</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">o le nu panpi ku ko gunka fi le -justice</ins>''</div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">(There was a bit of personal back-and-forth here that</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">s not really</ins></div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div> </div></td></tr>
<tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-side-deleted"></td><td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td><td style="color: #202122; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">relevant, so I</ins>'<ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">m deleting all of it.)</ins></div></td></tr>
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Gleki
https://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=justice&diff=64641&oldid=prev
Gleki at 16:52, 4 November 2013
2013-11-04T16:52:44Z
<p></p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div><br />
It's easy to talk about visible light, or about radio, or about the electromagnetic spectrum as a whole, but what about the other major regions of the spectrum?<br />
<br />
* infrared<br />
** A first try: le me'i xunre se dirce or, by extension, mecyxunseldi'e -- [[jbocre: RobinLeePowell|RobinLeePowell]]<br />
<br />
*** Um. I translate that as "less red radiation". Not "less-than-red radiation", which would require the ''me'i'' to describe a property of ''xunre'' somehow - a red light that diminishes in brightness would emit ''le me'i xunre se dirce''.<br />
* ultraviolet<br />
<br />
* x-rays<br />
** The name "x-ray" is purely conventional. I don't have any better idea than ''xy. zei gusni''. ''mi'e [[jbocre: jezrax|jezrax]]''<br />
<br />
(You really have to use ''boxna'' (pleeeeease no "red" or "violet" calques!):<br />
<br />
''gusni xe boxna barda (cmalu) se dukse fi lenu viska narkakne'' or just<br />
<br />
''gusxembonbra(cma)du'e'' for short...<br />
<br />
* Why is it a calque to say something involving "red" or "violet"? If I describe infrared as "beyond-red light" (bancu xunre gusni), isn't it correct?<br />
** I like ''bacyxungu'i'' and ''bacyblagu'i''. They're a little vague but seem clear enough for everyday use. Scientists will definitely prefer ''boxna'' when being technical. ''mi'e [[jbocre: jezrax|jezrax]]''<br />
<br />
* Incidentally, your tanru doesn't work (''gusni xe boxna barda dukse'' is a kind of ''dukse'' - not something excessive, but the excess itself) and if you can come up with a seljvajvo place structure for ''gusxembonbradu'e'', more power to you. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]<br />
<br />
...but wouldn't it be a good use for our MEX<br />
<br />
notation if we were to specify the actual range of wavelengths that define these<br />
<br />
terms? e.g.<br />
<br />
* near UV ''boxna fu su'evo decmiktre''<br />
* infrared ''boxna fu su'ozepivo decmiktre'' (though i am used to using Angstroms, it seems silly to talk about 4000 or 7400 of a ten-billionth of a meter in Lojban)<br />
<br />
** So why do you talk about 7.4 of a ten-millionth of a meter rather than 740 billionths? I think using nm for wavelengths of light around the visible range is well established. (My real quibble is with the non-power-of-10^3 used here: 10^-7 seems like an illogical base when 10^-9 or 10^-6 will do -- and require only one prefix rather than two.) That would then become ''su'evonono navytre'' and ''su'ozevono navytre'', respectively. mi'e filip<br />
* Are you looking at the same ''[[jbocre: gimste|gimste]]'' I am? Mine gives wavelength ''velbo'a'', frequency ''xelbo'a'', so you want ''fo'' not ''fu''. ''mi'e [[jbocre: jezrax|jezrax]]''</div>
Gleki