justice: Difference between revisions

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It's easy to talk about visible light, or about radio, or about the electromagnetic spectrum as a whole, but what about the other major regions of the spectrum?
''jikca marde'', 'social morals'; ''ve drani'' 'standard of correctness'; & ''pairvu'e'' 'judgment-virtue' have all been offered. (And ''zoity. ruv ty.'',


* infrared
not entirely in jest.)
** A first try: le me'i xunre se dirce or, by extension,  mecyxunseldi'e -- [[jbocre: RobinLeePowell|RobinLeePowell]]


*** Um. I translate that as "less red radiation". Not "less-than-red radiation", which would require the ''me'i'' to describe a property of ''xunre'' somehow - a red light that diminishes in brightness would emit ''le me'i xunre se dirce''.
ka pairvu'e (cf. tolpaivu'e, from lujvo list)
* ultraviolet


* x-rays
I used ''drazba'' in broken phone, because I was thinking of "justice"
** The name "x-ray" is purely conventional. I don't have any better idea than ''xy. zei gusni''. ''mi'e [[jbocre: jezrax|jezrax]]''


(You really have to use ''boxna'' (pleeeeease no "red" or "violet" calques!):
in the sense of the actual physical action of making things right,


''gusni xe boxna barda (cmalu) se dukse fi lenu viska narkakne'' or just
i.e., retribution or restitution.  It's clearly a polysemous word in


''gusxembonbra(cma)du'e'' for short...
English, so there's no reason to expect a single lujvo will do it


* Why is it a calque to say something involving "red" or "violet"? If I describe infrared as "beyond-red light" (bancu xunre gusni), isn't it correct?
justice. :-)
** I like ''bacyxungu'i'' and ''bacyblagu'i''. They're a little vague but seem clear enough for everyday use. Scientists will definitely prefer ''boxna'' when being technical. ''mi'e [[jbocre: jezrax|jezrax]]''


* Incidentally, your tanru doesn't work (''gusni xe boxna barda dukse'' is a kind of ''dukse'' - not something excessive, but the excess itself) and if you can come up with a seljvajvo place structure for ''gusxembonbradu'e'', more power to you. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]
mi poi pajni cu stidi zo '''kamdrapai''' po'u zoigy. the quality of judging right/correct gy.


...but wouldn't it be a good use for our MEX
That's also a meaning of "justice"; the administration of justice generally


notation if we were to specify the actual range of wavelengths that define these
requires that a controversy be brought to a judge who judges who are what is


terms? e.g.
"right" under the circumstances; but then there is also the concomitant fine,


* near UV  ''boxna fu su'evo decmiktre''
restitution, punishment, or whatever that ''rectifies'' (i.e., makes right)
* infrared ''boxna fu su'ozepivo decmiktre'' (though i am used to using Angstroms, it seems silly to talk about 4000 or 7400 of a ten-billionth of a meter in Lojban)


** So why do you talk about 7.4 of a ten-millionth of a meter rather than 740 billionths? I think using nm for wavelengths of light around the visible range is well established. (My real quibble is with the non-power-of-10^3 used here: 10^-7 seems like an illogical base when 10^-9 or 10^-6 will do -- and require only one prefix rather than two.) That would then become ''su'evonono navytre'' and ''su'ozevono navytre'', respectively. mi'e filip
the situation.  So if you're talking about the judgment, certainly ''le ka drapai'' is better; but after the judge ''drapai''s, he must ''drazba''.
* Are you looking at the same ''[[jbocre: gimste|gimste]]'' I am? Mine gives wavelength ''velbo'a'', frequency ''xelbo'a'', so you want ''fo'' not ''fu''. ''mi'e [[jbocre: jezrax|jezrax]]''
 
In my experience, when people say something like "We demand justice", it is
 
the ''drazba'' they want, not just the ''drapai''.
 
I almost agree. Yet, from my point of view the drapai (and hence the kamdrapai) covers both, the judgment "what is formally regarded to be right" and the judgment (=the formal order) what has to be done in order to "execute" this judgment. That means that the execution of a judgment is just a consequence, getting its legal/moral/ethical, or what have you, power only from drapai. Having the judgment carried out accordingly is drazba, necessary to fulfill drapai, but this isn't what we call justice, since just being a moreorless "mechanical" act without juridicial power of its own. (Although I'm not talking of criminal law exclusively, nevertheless this picture to point it out: it is not "justice" what people might feel/call when seeing a man hanging from a tree, but just drazba - or maybe even not!).
 
----
 
Then how do you say, "If you want peace, work for justice"?
 
How about ''ganai do djica le nu panpi gi le nu gunka be fi -justice cu xamgu''
 
stidi lu ganai do djica lenu panpi gi ko gunka fi lenu lo kamdrapai ba za'irgau li'u
 
I'm not so sure about ''ganai... gi... ko...''.  X implies that I command you to Y? Certainly ''le nu ko...'' might make some sense, but that's not what we're saying here.  If you want to keep the comand form, I'd suggest:
 
''ja'e .a'o le nu panpi ku ko gunka fi le -justice''
 
(There was a bit of personal back-and-forth here that's not really
 
relevant, so I'm deleting all of it.)

Latest revision as of 14:44, 23 March 2014

jikca marde, 'social morals'; ve drani 'standard of correctness'; & pairvu'e 'judgment-virtue' have all been offered. (And zoity. ruv ty.,

not entirely in jest.)

ka pairvu'e (cf. tolpaivu'e, from lujvo list)

I used drazba in broken phone, because I was thinking of "justice"

in the sense of the actual physical action of making things right,

i.e., retribution or restitution. It's clearly a polysemous word in

English, so there's no reason to expect a single lujvo will do it

justice. :-)

mi poi pajni cu stidi zo kamdrapai po'u zoigy. the quality of judging right/correct gy.

That's also a meaning of "justice"; the administration of justice generally

requires that a controversy be brought to a judge who judges who are what is

"right" under the circumstances; but then there is also the concomitant fine,

restitution, punishment, or whatever that rectifies (i.e., makes right)

the situation. So if you're talking about the judgment, certainly le ka drapai is better; but after the judge drapais, he must drazba.

In my experience, when people say something like "We demand justice", it is

the drazba they want, not just the drapai.

I almost agree. Yet, from my point of view the drapai (and hence the kamdrapai) covers both, the judgment "what is formally regarded to be right" and the judgment (=the formal order) what has to be done in order to "execute" this judgment. That means that the execution of a judgment is just a consequence, getting its legal/moral/ethical, or what have you, power only from drapai. Having the judgment carried out accordingly is drazba, necessary to fulfill drapai, but this isn't what we call justice, since just being a moreorless "mechanical" act without juridicial power of its own. (Although I'm not talking of criminal law exclusively, nevertheless this picture to point it out: it is not "justice" what people might feel/call when seeing a man hanging from a tree, but just drazba - or maybe even not!).


Then how do you say, "If you want peace, work for justice"?

How about ganai do djica le nu panpi gi le nu gunka be fi -justice cu xamgu

stidi lu ganai do djica lenu panpi gi ko gunka fi lenu lo kamdrapai ba za'irgau li'u

I'm not so sure about ganai... gi... ko.... X implies that I command you to Y? Certainly le nu ko... might make some sense, but that's not what we're saying here. If you want to keep the comand form, I'd suggest:

ja'e .a'o le nu panpi ku ko gunka fi le -justice

(There was a bit of personal back-and-forth here that's not really

relevant, so I'm deleting all of it.)