joi: Difference between revisions

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=BPFK Sections=
[[Image:e-vs-johu-vs-joi.png|thumb]]
== BPFK Sections ==
*[[BPFK_Section:_Non-logical_Connectives#cmavo:_joi_.28JOI.29]]
*[[BPFK_Section:_Non-logical_Connectives#cmavo:_joi_.28JOI.29]]
*[[BPFK_Section:_Non-logical_Connectives#Formal_definitions]]
*[[BPFK_Section:_Non-logical_Connectives#Formal_definitions]]
** '''X''' joi '''Y''' = lo gunma be '''X''' .e '''Y'''
** '''X''' joi '''Y''' = lo gunma be '''X''' .e '''Y'''


=guskant's writing=
== guskant's writing ==
*[[gadri:_an_unofficial_commentary_from_a_logical_point_of_view#Relation_between_jo.27u.2C_joi.2C_ce_and_gadri]]
*[[gadri:_an_unofficial_commentary_from_a_logical_point_of_view#Relation_between_jo.27u.2C_joi.2C_ce_and_gadri]]
** '''X''' joi '''Y''' = lo gunma be '''X''' .e '''Y''' .e no drata be '''X''' .e '''Y'''
** '''X''' joi '''Y''' = lo gunma be '''X''' .e '''Y''' .e no drata be '''X''' .e '''Y'''
** {joi} forms a "non-distributive plural constant".
** {joi} forms a "non-distributive plural constant".


=[https://lojban.github.io/cll/14/14/ CLL 14.14 Non-logical connectives]=
== [https://lojban.github.io/cll/14/14/ CLL 14.14 Non-logical connectives] ==
(Link added for reference — but all the usual disclaimers apply: CLL says quite contradictory things about '''joi''' and '''jo'u'''.)
(Link added for reference — but all the usual disclaimers apply: CLL says quite contradictory things about '''joi''' and '''jo'u'''.)


=gimste definition=
== gimste definition ==


  non-logical connective: mixed conjunction; 'and' meaning 'mixed together', forming a mass.
  non-logical connective: mixed conjunction; 'and' meaning 'mixed together', forming a mass.


=la lalxu's diagram=
== la lalxu's diagram ==
[[File:e-vs-johu-vs-joi.png]]
[[File:e-vs-johu-vs-joi.png]]


=xorxes's Lojban jbovlaste definition=
== xorxes's Lojban jbovlaste definition ==


  nalylogji jonma'o .i te jorne le li'erla'i le se li'erla'i ja'e lo gunma
  nalylogji jonma'o .i te jorne le li'erla'i le se li'erla'i ja'e lo gunma
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This is compatible with the BPFK definition above (whew!) when taking the resulting '''gunma''' to satisfy '''gunma le li'erla'i .e le se li'erla'i'''.
This is compatible with the BPFK definition above (whew!) when taking the resulting '''gunma''' to satisfy '''gunma le li'erla'i .e le se li'erla'i'''.


=broda joi brodu=
== broda joi brodu ==


That definition is fine for '''SUMTI joi SUMTI''', but what about tanru units? The resulting '''broda joi brodu''' can't be a '''gunma''' (mass).
That definition is fine for '''SUMTI joi SUMTI''', but what about tanru units? The resulting '''broda joi brodu''' can't be a '''gunma''' (mass).


==cu'u la .ŭakci==
=== cu'u la .ŭakci ===


la ŭakci suggests the following semantics [source: #ckule on Oct 28, 2018]:
la ŭakci suggests the following semantics [source: #ckule on Oct 28, 2018]:
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  2b) lo ka broda je brodu na du di.
  2b) lo ka broda je brodu na du di.


==cu'u la .ilmen==
=== cu'u la .ilmen ===


Ilmen suggests the following semantics for '''joi gi broda gi brodu''':
Ilmen suggests the following semantics for '''joi gi broda gi brodu''':

Revision as of 15:37, 30 October 2018

e-vs-johu-vs-joi.png

BPFK Sections

guskant's writing

CLL 14.14 Non-logical connectives

(Link added for reference — but all the usual disclaimers apply: CLL says quite contradictory things about joi and jo'u.)

gimste definition

non-logical connective: mixed conjunction; 'and' meaning 'mixed together', forming a mass.

la lalxu's diagram

e-vs-johu-vs-joi.png

xorxes's Lojban jbovlaste definition

nalylogji jonma'o .i te jorne le li'erla'i le se li'erla'i ja'e lo gunma

Non-logical connective. Joins the preceding argument and the following argument, with-result: a gunma.

This is compatible with the BPFK definition above (whew!) when taking the resulting gunma to satisfy gunma le li'erla'i .e le se li'erla'i.

broda joi brodu

That definition is fine for SUMTI joi SUMTI, but what about tanru units? The resulting broda joi brodu can't be a gunma (mass).

cu'u la .ŭakci

la ŭakci suggests the following semantics [source: #ckule on Oct 28, 2018]:

«da broda joi brodu» →
1) da broda i je da brodu;
2) su’o di zo’u da ckaji di i je lo ka broda kei je lo ka brodu cu pagbu di;
2a) lo ka broda kei je lo ka brodu cu simsa di;
2b) lo ka broda je brodu na du di.

cu'u la .ilmen

Ilmen suggests the following semantics for joi gi broda gi brodu:

fasnu fa lo gunma be su'oi da poi me ke'a fa lo nu broda .e lo nu brodu .e no na nu broda kei ja nu brodu

According to Ilmen, an event can be a gunma. la lalxu agrees.