if: Difference between revisions

From Lojban
Jump to navigation Jump to search
m (Text replace - "jbocre: b" to "b")
No edit summary
 
(11 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown)
Line 4: Line 4:
So, there is no "standard" word or phrase you can use to translate English "if" consistently. The following words can all be used:
So, there is no "standard" word or phrase you can use to translate English "if" consistently. The following words can all be used:


*'''[[jbocre: ganai, gi|ganai, gi]]''' indicates correlation and says nothing about causality.
*'''[[ganai, gi|ganai, gi]]''' indicates correlation and says nothing about causality.
*'''[[jbocre: go, gi|go, gi]]''' indicates a slightly different correlation and says nothing about causality.
*'''[[go, gi|go, gi]]''' indicates a slightly different correlation and says nothing about causality.


*'''[[jbocre: va'o|va'o]], [[fau|fau]]''' indicate correlation and say nothing about causality?
*'''[[va'o|va'o]], [[fau|fau]]''' indicate correlation and say nothing about causality
*'''[[jbocre: mu'ei|mu'ei]]''' is an experimental cmavo which incorporates into Lojban logicians' method of handing conditional statements in terms of [[jbocre: possible worlds and mu'ei ossible worlds|possible worlds and mu'ei ossible worlds]]; it has been discussed on the wiki as a means to indicate [[jbocre: counterfactual correlation|counterfactual correlation]].
*'''[[mu'ei|mu'ei]]''' is an experimental cmavo which incorporates into Lojban logicians' method of handing conditional statements in terms of [[possible worlds and mu'ei]]; it has been discussed on the wiki as a means to indicate [[counterfactual correlation|counterfactual correlation]].


*'''[[jbocre: CAhA as sumtcita a'a|CAhA as sumtcita a'a]]''' as a sumtcita may indicate necessity like ''ro[[jbocre: mu'ei|mu'ei]]''
*'''[[CAhA as sumtcita]]''' as a sumtcita may indicate necessity like '''ro[[mu'ei|mu'ei]]'''
*'''[[bi'ai|bi'ai]]''' is the true ''ro[[jbocre: mu'ei|mu'ei]]''. ''ca'a'' is a special variation of ''su'o[[jbocre: mu'ei|mu'ei]]''.
*'''[[bi'ai|bi'ai]]''' is the true '''ro[[mu'ei|mu'ei]]'''. '''ca'a''' is out of this philosophy.


*'''[[bai|bai]]''' indicates causality, in the sense that one event compels another to happen.
*'''[[bai|bai/bapli]]''' indicates causality, in the sense that one event compels another to happen.
*'''[[jbocre: ja'e|ja'e]]''' indicates logical causality.
*'''[[ja'e|ja'e]]''' indicates logical causality.


*'''[[jbocre: selbri for causality rinu|selbri for causality rinu]]''' indicates causality by reason/justification/explanation.
*'''[[selbri for causality|ki'u/krinu]]''' indicates causality by reason/justification/explanation.
*'''[[jbocre: selbri for causality ibli|selbri for causality ibli]]''' indicates causality by logical implication.
*'''[[selbri for causality|ni'i/nibli]]''' indicates causality by logical implication.


*'''[[jbocre: selbri for causality ukti|selbri for causality ukti]]''' indicates causality by motivation/incentive.
*'''[[selbri for causality|mu'i/mukti]]''' indicates causality by motivation/incentive.
*'''[[jbocre: selbri for causality inka|selbri for causality inka]]''' indicates causality by physical cause.
*'''[[selbri for causality|ri'a/rinka]]''' indicates causality by physical cause.


----
*'''lo du'u xukau''' is for when you meant to say “whether” (“I don't know if ...”).


This page was absolutely getting out of hand, so I've reorganized it. If you feel your viewpoint has been marginalized, sorry.
==conditional==
'''ma tadji lenu mi cusku zoi gy. ''"I would have killed the cat"'' .gy bau la lojban.'''
* '''mi no'omu'eiku pu catra le mlatu'''
* '''mi jibni jeku'i se fanta co catra le mlatu'''


Please try to keep this list clean - comments about whether a certain form is good or bad should go on the corresponding page. --[[jbocre: rab.spir|rab.spir]]
* That only works if you mean that you did in fact to intend to kill the cat. What about "I would have killed the cat, which was running across the road, if I hadn't slammed on the brakes"?
 
* Couldn't you give other examples than those of killing cats!!!!
* Thanks. A big improvement. --[[User:And Rosta|And Rosta]].
** Sure.
** '''ma tadji lenu mi cusku zoi gy. "I would have killed the platypus" .gy bau la .lojban.'''
*** xod:
**** [[The Book]] shows how and it seems rather sufficient.
**** '''.i da'i ganai co'e gi mi ba'o catra le mlatu'''
**** Since the '''da'i''' is on the '''.i''', it covers the whole statement.

Latest revision as of 18:25, 2 September 2014

The English word "if" encompasses a large range of concepts. Sometimes it implies correlation, and sometimes it implies causality. Sometimes it expresses an event happening in a counterfactual world. All of these should be translated differently into Lojban, because they express different concepts.

So, there is no "standard" word or phrase you can use to translate English "if" consistently. The following words can all be used:

  • ganai, gi indicates correlation and says nothing about causality.
  • go, gi indicates a slightly different correlation and says nothing about causality.
  • bai/bapli indicates causality, in the sense that one event compels another to happen.
  • ja'e indicates logical causality.
  • ki'u/krinu indicates causality by reason/justification/explanation.
  • ni'i/nibli indicates causality by logical implication.
  • mu'i/mukti indicates causality by motivation/incentive.
  • ri'a/rinka indicates causality by physical cause.
  • lo du'u xukau is for when you meant to say “whether” (“I don't know if ...”).

conditional

ma tadji lenu mi cusku zoi gy. "I would have killed the cat" .gy bau la lojban.

  • mi no'omu'eiku pu catra le mlatu
  • mi jibni jeku'i se fanta co catra le mlatu
  • That only works if you mean that you did in fact to intend to kill the cat. What about "I would have killed the cat, which was running across the road, if I hadn't slammed on the brakes"?
  • Couldn't you give other examples than those of killing cats!!!!
    • Sure.
    • ma tadji lenu mi cusku zoi gy. "I would have killed the platypus" .gy bau la .lojban.
      • xod:
        • The Book shows how and it seems rather sufficient.
        • .i da'i ganai co'e gi mi ba'o catra le mlatu
        • Since the da'i is on the .i, it covers the whole statement.