gyakran Ismételt Kérdések

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Lojban GYIK

A FAQ-like Resources oldalon szintén hasznos információkat találhatsz.

Tartalomjegyzék

  1. {ALINK(aname=>general)}Általános kérdések{ALINK}
  1. {ALINK(aname=>resources)}Anyagok{ALINK}
  1. {ALINK(aname=>technical)}Technikai kérdések{ALINK}
  1. {ALINK(aname=>status)}Projekt állapota{ALINK}
  1. {ALINK(aname=>historical)}Történelmi kérdések{ALINK}
  1. {ALINK(aname=>pronunciation)}Kiejtés{ALINK}

{ANAME()}general{ANAME}Általános kérdések

G1. {ALINK(aname=>G1)}Segítség! Nem beszélek angolul!{ALINK}

G2. {ALINK(aname=>G2)}Mi az a lojban?{ALINK}

G3. {ALINK(aname=>G3)}Kik vesznek részt a Lojban projektben?{ALINK}

G4. {ALINK(aname=>G4)}Hányan vannak a Lojban közösségben? Hányan használhatják a Lojbant?{ALINK}

G5. {ALINK(aname=>G5)}Mi az a LogFest / jbonunsla ?{ALINK}

G6. {ALINK(aname=>G6)}Mi a különbség a Reference Grammar és a Complete Lojban Language könyvek között?{ALINK}

G7. {ALINK(aname=>G7)}Van egy komplettebb bevezető a Lojbanba mint ez a GYIK?{ALINK}

{ANAME()}resources{ANAME}Anyagok

R1. {ALINK(aname=>R1)}Mi a legjobb módja elkezdeni tanulni a Lojbant?{ALINK}

R2. {ALINK(aname=>R2)}How can I look up gismu, lujvo, and cmavo when I am translating from lojban?{ALINK}

R3. {ALINK(aname=>R3)}Sources of text to read?{ALINK}

R4. {ALINK(aname=>R4)}What messages are appropriate for the Lojban List?{ALINK}

R5. {ALINK(aname=>R5)}Are there archives? WWW site? ftp site?{ALINK}

R6. {ALINK(aname=>R6)}What is available in languages other than English?{ALINK}

R7. {ALINK(aname=>R7)}What software is available?{ALINK}

{ANAME()}technical{ANAME}TECHNICAL

T1. {ALINK(aname=>T1)}(Glossary) In English descriptions of lojban, I see lojban words used, as well as lojban jargon. What do these words mean?{ALINK}

T2. {ALINK(aname=>T2)}How do you borrow words from other languages?{ALINK}

T3. {ALINK(aname=>T3)}Isn't it confusing that some rafsi are identical to cmavo?{ALINK}

T4. {ALINK(aname=>T4)} Why do some texts use "h" instead of (single quote), or have parentheses, or other non-standard conventions?{ALINK}

T5. {ALINK(aname=>T5)}Why does it have a special meaning when the selbri comes first in a sentence?{ALINK}

T6. {ALINK(aname=>T6)}Why are there so many words for AND? Why not just let .e connect two sumti, bridi, bridi -tails, or anything else?{ALINK}

T7. {ALINK(aname=>T7)}Is the 's' at the end of lojbanized names (such as 'noras.') silent?{ALINK}

{ANAME()}status{ANAME}PROJECT STATUS

PS1. {ALINK(aname=>PS1)}What parts of the language are well worked out, and which parts are in flux?{ALINK}

PS2. {ALINK(aname=>PS2)}What are the most current revisions of each part of the language descriptions?{ALINK}

PS3. {ALINK(aname=>PS3)}What projects are being worked on? When will they be done?{ALINK}

PS4. {ALINK(aname=>PS4)}What can I do to help?{ALINK}

{ANAME()}historical{ANAME}HISTORICAL

H1. {ALINK(aname=>H1)}How was the default place structure order of sumti in a selbri determined? (There does not appear to be any rhyme or reason for the order of sumti in many gismu.){ALINK}

H2. {ALINK(aname=>H2)}How did the gismu get made: discussion, etymology examples{ALINK}

H3. {ALINK(aname=>H3)}What is the difference between Loglan and Lojban? How is Loglan-82 related?{ALINK}

H4. {ALINK(aname=>H4)}Why do older Lojban texts (before 1993) not make much sense sometimes?{ALINK}

{ANAME()}pronunciation{ANAME}PRONUNCIATION

B1. {ALINK(aname=>B1)}I'm not quite sure I understand the written descriptions of how the vowels sound.{ALINK}

GENERAL

{ANAME()}G1{ANAME}G1. Segítség! Nem beszélek angolul!

No hablo muy bien inglés...
Puedes contactarte con ailto:jjllambias@gmail.com orge Llambías
Je ne comprends pas très bien l'anglais...
Tu peux contacter ailto:gregory.dyke@epfl.ch reg Dyke
Ich verstehe Englisch nicht sehr gut....
Du kannst eine Mail an ailto:gregory.dyke@epfl.ch reg Dyke senden
mi na se bangu le glibau
.oiru'e do na nitcu le nu tcidu dei kei ki'u le za'i .ui do pujeca se bangu le jbobau

Szintén, Lojban Materials in other languages nem angol nyelvű anyagok is segítséget nyújthatnak.

{ANAME()}G2{ANAME}G2. Mi az a lojban?

Lojban is a carefully constructed spoken, as well as

written, language designed in the hope of removing a large portion of

the ambiguity from human communication. It was made well-known by a

Scientific American article and references in both science

fiction and computer publications. Lojban has been built over five

decades by dozens of workers and hundreds of supporters.

{ANAME()}G3{ANAME}G3.Who is involved in the Lojban project?

Key people are listed on the Lojbanic Community Links ommunity page.

{ANAME()}G4{ANAME}G4.How many people are there in the Lojban community? How many can use Lojban?

As of March 2010, close to two thousand people from around the world have developed an interest in Lojban to the point of ordering a ooks ook or joined a {ALINK(aname=>lists,pagename=>Lojbanic Forums)}Lojban

List{ALINK} . At any given time, there are at least 50 to 100 active participants (people who will respond if you ask a question on one of the email lists or in ojban IRC RC chat room, for example). A number of them can hold a real-time conversation in the language.

{ANAME()}G5{ANAME}G5.What is LogFest / jbonunsla ?

LogFest is the annual gathering of the Logical Language Group. We are required by an ylaws of The Logical Language Group, Inc. LG bylaw to have

an annual meeting. Every year we have a Lojban Convention for any and all in

the Lojbanic Community Links ommunity who are willing

to come. LogFest was traditionally held at lojbab's house in Fairfax VA, a suburb of

Washington DC, usually over a weekend in July or August. We have typically had

around 20 people come for part or all of the weekend. Some of these people are

among the more committed Lojbanists, and around half the attendees typically

are at beginner skill levels. Usually several people travel a substantial

distance in order to attend, and those people are often treated as a guests of

honor and are given first consideration for choosing the activities on which we

focus.

Other than giving those who had to

travel furthest preference in picking topics, LogFest is largely

unstructured, in part because we don't know who or how many are coming

until a couple of days before things start. LogFest is what the

Lojbanic Community Links ommunity chooses to make it. Because the official LLG meeting occurs during Logfest,

some of the major decisions affecting the Lojbanic Community Links ojban community tend

to get made there.

In 2005 and 2006, the annual gatherings started being held at science fiction conventions.

The name "LogFest" is a holdover from Loglan. The word for it in Lojban is "jbonunsla".

{ANAME()}G6{ANAME}G6.What is the difference between the Reference Grammar and the Complete Lojban Language?

The Reference Grammar is online; The Complete Lojban Language is the hard-copy book version. The terms are sometimes used interchangeably.

{ANAME()}G7{ANAME}G7.Is there a more complete introduction to Lojban than this FAQ?

Yes! You can read or download What Is Lojban?, The Book hat Is Lojban?, also known as the Level Zero book, edited by

Nick Nicholas and John Woldemar Cowan. This book makes an

excellent introduction to lojban.

RESOURCES

{ANAME()}R1{ANAME}R1.What is the best way to start learning Lojban?

We recommend the following:

  1. You can read or download What Is Lojban?, The Book hat Is Lojban?, also known as the Level Zero book, edited by Nick Nicholas and John Woldemar Cowan. This book makes an excellent introduction to lojban.
  1. Work through Lojban For Beginners.
  1. Read through the Reference Grammar -- reading for concepts, not detail.
  1. Create a cheat sheet with lists of {ALINK(aname=>cmavo)}cmavo{ALINK} you're likely to need.
  1. Read and write Texts In Lojban ojban texts using the Reference Grammar and your cheat sheets for reference. Post your translated text to the {ALINK(aname=>lists,pagename=>Lojbanic Forums)}Lojban List{ALINK} for feedback.
  1. If you get serious about it, use ogflash or uizlet (register and join the Lojban Group) to help you memorize vocabulary.

If some concepts in any of the above resources seem unclear, post

your questions to the {ALINK(aname=>lists,pagename=>Lojbanic Forums)}Lojban List{ALINK}.

{ANAME()}R2{ANAME}R2.How can I look up {ALINK(aname=>cmavo)}cmavo{ALINK} when I am translating from Lojban?

Use one of these: - print yourself out the omplete gismu list, the current lujvo list, and the [http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/cmavo.txt complete

cmavo list] as well as the complete rafsi list - refer to the online ictionary.

{ANAME()}R3{ANAME}R3.Sources of text to read?

There are many. You can find a complete list exts in Lojban here. Take your pick from original or translated, short or long, prose or poetry, currently-being-worked-on or completed-and-reviewed.

The {ALINK(aname=>lists,pagename=>Lojbanic Forums)}Lojban List{ALINK} will have discussion in Lojban from time to time. There is also

now a Lojban-only list called {ALINK(aname=>jbosnu,pagename=>Lojbanic Forums)}jbosnu{ALINK} ("Lojbanic Discussers").

{ALINK(aname=>JL)}ju'i lobypli{ALINK} (Attention! Lojbanic Users) usually have several examples

of commented text, though early issues may have some obsolete words or

usages.

Other Lojbanists publish Web pages, some with Lojban texts and some

entirely in Lojban. ojbanic Community Links here are

some interesting sites.

Stuff on paper can be ordered from the {ALINK(aname=>LLG)}Logical Language Group{ALINK}; however it is much better if you can

retrieve stuff directly off the net.

{ANAME()}R4{ANAME}R4.What messages are appropriate for the Lojban List?

Beginners are encouraged to post. Anything is appropriate as long as

the title approximately reflects the content and you're not selling

magazine subscriptions or mail-order brides (exception: even THAT is OK

if the post is written in Lojban!). You can post on any subject in

Lojban, or about Lojban in any language. You can post in any language

you think people will understand.

{ANAME()}R5{ANAME}R5.Are there archives? WWW site? ftp site?

There are archives of some of the more recent e-mail list messages on this website, while others

are stored at Yahoo. See [http://www.lojban.org/resources/forums.html#lists the mailing

lists page].

{ANAME()}R6{ANAME}R6.What is available in languages other than English?

There are brochures in Spanish ({file name="Brochure_Spanish1.doc" showdesc=1}), French

({file name="Brochure_French1.doc" showdesc=1}),

speranto,

and ussian.

Jorge and Jose have translated the {ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK} list into Spanish ({file name="Lista_de_gismu_con_definiciones_en_es.doc" showdesc=1}).

{ANAME()}R7{ANAME}R7.What software is available?

Up-to-date information is available at [http://www.lojban.org/resources/tools.html the lojban software

tools page] on the main site. Below are direct links to some of the

software directly associated with the LLG.

ogflash 1 - teaches {ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK}; [http://www.lojban.org/resources/../files/software/lfsrc.ZIP Turbo-Pascal

source code] (not well-documented) is available

ogflash 3 - teaches {ALINK(aname=>cmavo)}cmavo{ALINK}

ojban Parser - the definitive standard of Lojban grammar; verifies the

Lojban grammar in a text

ojban Parser/Glosser (includes the parser, roughly glosses text to

English)

ujvo-maker program

rolog Semantic Analyzer

andom Sentence Generator - updated version in progress, the available

version has somewhat obsolete grammar definitions

TECHNICAL

{ANAME()}T1{ANAME}T1.(Glossary) In English descriptions of lojban, I see lojban words used, as well as lojban jargon. What do these mean?

Here are APPROXIMATE definitions.

Note: Words in ALL CAPS on the {ALINK(aname=>lists,pagename=>Lojbanic Forums)}Lojban List{ALINK} often refer to Lojban parts of speech. the English-language

phonetic translation of (single quote) is "h",

so when this convention is used, "h" is used as the "capitalization" of

. So in English-language discussion, the

lojban part of speech contaning the word la'e (the referent of a sumti) would be "LAhE".

{ANAME()}attitudinal{ANAME}attitudinal
A Lojban interjection (corresponding to "Wow!" or "Eek!" in English, only lojban has many more)
{ANAME()}audiovisualisomorphism{ANAME}audiovisual isomorphism
Used to describe the fact that spoken and written Lojban have the same form
{ANAME()}bridi{ANAME}bridi
Lojban sentence~--~a predicate
{ANAME()}brivla{ANAME}brivla
Any word that can state a relationship among several objects or concepts, and thus be the core word in a Lojban {ALINK(aname=>bridi)}bridi{ALINK} - a predicate word
{ANAME()}cmavo{ANAME}cmavo
A little word showing structure rather than carrying meaning. The urrent cmavo list is available, but it isn't very easy to read!
{ANAME()}cmene{ANAME}cmene
Lojban names
{ANAME()}evidential{ANAME}evidential
Special word indicating how the speaker got their information
{ANAME()}fu'ivla{ANAME}fu'ivla
Borrowed word
{ANAME()}gadri{ANAME}gadri
Lojban article or determiner~--~signals the start of a {ALINK(aname=>sumti)}sumti{ALINK}
{ANAME()}gismu{ANAME}gismu
Basic 5-letter lojban root word; the basic gismu list is available here
{ANAME()}JL{ANAME}ju'i lobypli (Attention! Lojbanic Users) (also known as JL)
A Lojban newsletter/journal. Publication is currently suspended, but we are hoping to resume publication in future. ack issues are available online.
{ANAME()}LK{ANAME}le lojbo karni (The Lojbanic Journal) (also known as LK)
A Lojban newsletter intended to keep our lowest level of supporters informed as to what is going on (in hopes of inspiring greater activity). Also currently suspended.
{ANAME()}le'avla{ANAME}le'avla
The old word for {ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK}
{ANAME()}LLG{ANAME}Logical Language Group (LLG)
The Logical Language Group is legally in charge of the development and maintenance of lojban. It also works to promote the use of lojban throughout the world.
{ANAME()}lujvo{ANAME}lujvo
Compound word
{ANAME()}modal{ANAME}modal
A word for {ALINK(aname=>sumtcita)}sumtcita{ALINK} whose exact derivation is lost in the history of the Lojban project
{ANAME()}pe'i{ANAME}pe'i
An attitudinal meaning "In my opinion"
{ANAME()}placestructure{ANAME}place structure
The specified canonical order of {ALINK(aname=>bridi)}bridi{ALINK}, so that you know who is doing what to whom.
{ANAME()}rafsi{ANAME}rafsi
Building block(s) of {ALINK(aname=>lujvo)}lujvo{ALINK} compound words
{ANAME()}selbri{ANAME}selbri
The part of a Lojban sentence that expresses the relationship between the various objects ({ALINK(aname=>sumti)}sumti{ALINK})
{ANAME()}selma'o{ANAME}selma'o
Part of speech
{ANAME()}slinku'i{ANAME}slinku'i
A hypothetical borrowed word, which would not be legal because it could be interpreted as parts of other words in some contexts.
{ANAME()}sumti{ANAME}sumti
An object or idea which may be related to others, that relationship being expressed in a Lojban {ALINK(aname=>bridi)}bridi{ALINK}
{ANAME()}sumtcita{ANAME}sumtcita
Lojban prepositions/adverbs
{ANAME()}tanru{ANAME}tanru
A phrase formed of two or more Lojban {ALINK(aname=>brivla)}brivla{ALINK}
{ANAME()}TLI{ANAME}TLI
he Loglan Institute

{ANAME()}T2{ANAME}T2.How do you borrow words from other languages?

There are four ways to borrow words. Only the most common method is

covered here; see the ojban Reference Grammar (Chapter 4, Section 7) for more detail.

Borrowed words are called {ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK}, meaning approximately "copied words"

(after all, "borrowing" implies we're going to give them back someday!).

The use of {ALINK(aname=>lujvo)}lujvo{ALINK} is not always appropriate

for very concrete or specific terms (e. g. "brie," or "cobra"), or for

jargon words specialized to a narrow field (e. g. "quark," "integral,"

or "iambic pentameter"). These words are in effect names for

concepts, and the names were invented by speakers of another language.

The vast majority of names for plants, animals, foods, and scientific

terminology cannot be easily expressed as {ALINK(aname=>tanru)}tanru{ALINK}. They thus must be "borrowed" (actually,

taken) into Lojban from the original language, forming words called {ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK}.

The word must be Lojbanized into one of several permitted {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK} is then attached to the

beginning of the Lojbanized form, usually using a vocalic consonant as

"glue" to ensure that the resulting word doesn't fall apart. The {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK} categorizes or limits the

meaning of the {ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK};

otherwise a word having several different jargon meanings in other

languages (such as "integral"), would require a choice made as to which

meaning should be assigned to the {ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK}.

{ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK}, like other

{ALINK(aname=>brivla)}brivla{ALINK}, are not permitted

to have more than one definition.

Summarizing the most common method to make {ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK}:

  1. Lojbanize the word to be borrowed by the methods used for {ALINK(aname=>cmene)}cmene{ALINK}.
  1. Convert all "y"s to some other vowel or to a vocalic consonant.
  1. Modify the ending to be a vowel, either by dropping a final consonant or by adding an extra vowel.
  1. Modify the beginning to be a consonant, either by adding an extra consonant or dropping an initial vowel.
  1. Choose a {ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK} (not a {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK}) that categorizes the {ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK} into a "topic area." Replace the final vowel of the {ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK} with a vocalic "r".
  1. Prefix the modified {ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK}.

Examples:

||English|lojban

spaghetti|cidjrspageti or djarspageti

maple tree|tricrmeipli

maple sugar|saktrmeipli

mathematical integral|cmacrnintegra or cmacrntegra

brie|cirlrbri

cobra|sincrkobra

quark|saskrkuarka

iambic|pemcrniambo||

A {ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK} thus

consists of three parts: the classifier, the glue, and the borrowed part

The quintessential example is djarspageti,

meaning "spaghetti." dja is the classifier: it

is the short form {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK} for

cidja, meaning "food." "r" is the glue: it is

necessary to keep the word from falling into two parts. spageti is the Lojbanized version of "spaghetti."

The classifier is glued on the front for two reasons: it helps identify

strange borrowings, and it prevents borrowings that happen to coincide

with things that are already Lojban words. For example if you borrowed

the word "spageti" directly, it could lead to ambiguity in a phrase like

ko bevri re spageti palta

which could mean "Bring two plates of spaghetti" or something like

"Be a carrying-reptile and a plate made of this":

ko bevri respa ge ti palta

In a natural language there would be no doubt which of the two was

meant, but Lojban is constructed so that you shouldn't need to

understand the sentence to know where one word ends and the next begins.

{ANAME()}T3{ANAME}T3.Isn't it confusing that some {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK} are identical to {ALINK(aname=>cmavo)}cmavo{ALINK}?

No, it isn't. In theory you can tell completely from the neighboring

syllables whether something is a {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK}. This is how the computer is able to parse

Lojban without understanding its meaning. For example the dei in bavlamdei ("tomorrow") is a {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK} for

"day," not the {ALINK(aname=>cmavo)}cmavo{ALINK}'dei, a special pronoun meaning "this sentence." We

know which is which because Lojban words can't end in a consonant, so

dei'must be a part of bavlamdei; "bavLAM" can't be a whole word. (No, it

can't be a name, either. Names end with a consonant followed by a pause,

written as a ".") In practice you can also use

your knowledge of the meanings of the words to help with this; it is

possible to think up a sentence like

la bavLAM. dei cusku,

"Bavlam says this sentence.", but it is not likely in practice if

you don't know anyone named "Bavlam"!

{ANAME()}T4{ANAME}T4.'Why do some texts use "h" instead of (single quote), or have parentheses, or other non-standard conventions?

Aesthetic reasons. And Rosta in

particular thinks mohi looks better in print

than mo'i (space motion) and sometimes uses it

the hopes that he can influence the Lojbanic Community Links ojban community to accept this other spelling convention. This is purely a

difference in spelling; they are pronounced the same, and should be

considered different ways of writing the same "letter." This alternate

spelling also is somewhat closer to the spelling of he Loglan Institute LI Loglan. There is another similar spelling

convention, which has never been used, designed to make Lojban look more

familiar to potential converts from he Loglan Institute LI. This

alternate convention may be found in the ojban Reference Grammar.

There are a number of other non-standard spelling conventions:

And Rosta has (or at least had) a style in which

(single quote) is omitted altogether where

the vowels couldn't possibly be stuck together; for example, he'd write

coe for co'e (unspecified bridi), since "oe" is not a legal combination. He has used

"." (period) as in English, to end a sentence, rather than as a pause.

He has capitalized the first word of the sentence.

Xod often

uses / (a forward slash) or parentheses to mark clauses out when writing

in lojban. He also uses a single capital letter for acronyms instead of

the lojban letterals (i.e. A instead of .abu.).

There have been others. In general, they are all quite understandable

by a competent lojbanic person, with the possible exception of And's

removal of (single quote).

{ANAME()}T5{ANAME}T5.Why does it have a special meaning when the {ALINK(aname=>selbri)}selbri{ALINK} comes first?

In Loglan it used to be a command, but now we use either ko

(imperative) or {ALINK(aname=>attitudinal)}attitudinals{ALINK}. In

a simple bridi, having the selbri at the beginning make it an

observative, which means you ar

stating that you are observing the relationship in question (much like

saying "Fire!" in English, except without necessarily carrying emotional

connotations).

In a poi

broda (which does/is something-or-other) phrase, it is likely that

you'll want x{SUB()}1{SUB} to be ke'a and to

explicitly state x{SUB()}2{SUB}. If verb-initial ordering (also called

V-initial) wasn't special, and if syntax within a poi (restrictive clause) was consistent with

sentence-level syntax, then you'd have to explicitly use fe (second sumti place) or zo'e (unspecified it) or ke'a to get to the x{SUB()}2{SUB}. For example, now

we say

le nanmu poi prami mi (The man which loves

me)

and the x{SUB()}1{SUB} of prami (love) is

elided, and we can assume it is ke'a, which here

equals le nanmu (The/a man/men). Without this

special treatment of V-initial, we'd have to say

le nanmu poi ke'a prami mi (The man which

loves me)

or

le nanmu poi ke'a mi prami. (The man which

loves me)

So: it saves 2 syllables in what is arguably the most common way of

using poi (restrictive clause). May or may not

be worth it, depending on how you value word-order flexibility vs.

brevity. In general it lets you easily get to x{SUB()}2{SUB} in sentences

without an x{SUB()}1{SUB}.

Remember: There's always more than one way to do it in lojban.

{ANAME()}T6{ANAME}T6.Why are there so many words for AND? Why not just let ".e" (and, between sumti) connect two {ALINK(aname=>bridi)}bridi{ALINK}, bridi-tails (a predicate and a sumti), or anything else?

We use different connectives for different scopes. Doing so helps

the listener keep track of what exactly the speaker wants connected.

This is much more important in speech than in text, because in

text you can re-read and ponder. If you have a multi-part nested {ALINK(aname=>sumti)}sumti{ALINK} joined to another

multi-part nested {ALINK(aname=>sumti)}sumti{ALINK},

having clear indicators of scope may make the sentence understandable

when otherwise it is not. It is therefore hoped that spoken Lojban and

written Lojban can be similar in level of complexity. (You know, {ALINK(aname=>audiovisualisomorphism)}audiovisual isomorphism{ALINK}.)

{ANAME()}T7{ANAME}T7.Is the 's' at the end of lojbanized names (such as 'noras.') silent?

No. 'noras.' is really pronounced with an 's' at the end.

Some languages can borrow names with virtually no changes, but Lojban is one of the languages that sometimes requires quite heavy modification of the names. Specifically, all Lojban words of the class {ALINK(aname=>cmene)}cmene{ALINK} must always end in a consonant. Sometimes, this requires removing a vowel at the end, or adding a consonant. By convention, this is often 's', but it could be any consonant.

If names were not changed this way, some of them could be mistaken for other words, or sequences of words. In this case, were there no 's' at the end, 'nora' would read as 'no ra', ie. "none of them"! This distinction is as important in speech as in writing, so names, as any other Lojban word, must be pronounced exactly as written. There are no silent letters in Lojban.

PROJECT STATUS

{ANAME()}PS1{ANAME}PS1.What parts of the language are well worked out, and which parts are in flux?

As of 1997, the language design has been baselined for a minimum of

5 years after the publication of the three books: the reference grammar,

the dictionary, and the textbook. Since the latter two are not near

publication, this means that no changes to the language will even be

considered until at least 2006. This baseline is non-negotiable, even if

we enter into discussions with The Loglan Institute to reunite the

Loglan community now that James Cooke Brown CB has passed on.

The phonology, orthography, and morphology have been essentially

stable since 1988, except for a slight change in what counts as a legal

{ALINK(aname=>fu'ivla)}fu'ivla{ALINK}. The 'gismu list has been stable since 1988, except

that about 25 {ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK} have

been added and 2 {ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK} had minor changes up

until 1994, but since then only clarifications of confusing wording have

been made to the official aseline gismu list, and they are now considered

baselined. The {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK} have

been unchanged since 1993, when around 20% were changed in a final

tuning before baselining them. Much existing text has not been updated

after the {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK} change, so

texts dated before 1993 may be confusing. The grammar has been basically

stable since 1993, was under careful documented control after that date,

and frozen with the publication of The Complete Lojban Language in 1997. The 'cmavo list has been baselined since 1997, though

new compounds may be defined through usage. The only area not frozen is

the addition of new words to the lexicon through borrowing ({ALINK(aname=>lujvo)}lujvo{ALINK}). Those two productive

areas are open-ended; a primary limitation on the language definition is

the inability to record and define new coinings as fast as they are

invented.

The basic semantics of the language are stable. There are still

ongoing disputes about "how to say it best in Lojban"; we expect these

to continue indefinitely. As a matter of policy, changes even to Lojban

non-baselined usages, if they would require people to re-learn things,

are resisted vigorously. Almost anything that practical people (i.e.

beginners) would actually use is well worked out, debugged and stable.

Points of controversy include highly technical philosophical issues such

as whether empty sets are or are not excluded as the candidate referent

set of a {ALINK(aname=>sumti)}sumti{ALINK}, or whether

current grammar is adequate to represent all possible forms of indirect

questions. The answers are very important to the language definition (no

joke), but people have been speaking natural languages for years without

knowing the answers, so don't worry about Lojban. And you don't have to

know what lambda calculus is. The major point of controversy that is

significant to beginners is a feeling in some quarters that the policies

used to design the place (argument, {ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK} (basic predicate words) were not exactly

optimal. Sometimes the semantics of the less-used places are at issue.

Officially, we'll go with what we have to preserve the investment people

have made in learning the language, and after the baseline period is

over, those who are actually speaking the language will be allowed to

discuss changes in Lojban. There are no plans to ever seriously discuss

changes to the language other than in Lojban.

{ANAME()}PS2{ANAME}PS2.What are the most current revisions of each part of the language descriptions?

The versions found on the ojban web site are definitive, except that the printed version of The Lojban Reference Grammar ( which is called The Complete Lojban Language ) takes precedence over the HTML version. Working

drafts of books in preparation are maintained on lojbab's home computers, and may be slightly updated

from the on-line versions.

{ANAME()}PS3{ANAME}PS3.What projects are being worked on? When will they be done?

The Complete Lojban Language is of course complete and published.

For a current list of ongoing projects, see

the Official LLG Projects page,

the Official LLG Committees page, and

ongoing projects he wiki ongoing projects page.

WHEN?

Projects are all being done by volunteers, and therefore will be

done when people finish them. We've promised dates in the past and

invariably been wrong. The priorities are for the dictionary and the

introductory materials book, with the latter more likely to come out

earlier than the former. Publication of books is severely hampered by

finances (anyone with money is welcome to sarji fo lo jdini onate!), and the lack of

ability to publish in the short term has tended to hurt motivation and

productivity of those working on those publications.

{ANAME()}PS4{ANAME}PS4.What can I do to help?

A few possibilities:

  • Post beginner questions on the {ALINK(aname=>lists,pagename=>Lojbanic Forums)}Lojban List{ALINK} and don't be intimidated
  • Tell about yourself and your interests (in Lojban preferably, but English is OK) on the {ALINK(aname=>lists,pagename=>Lojbanic Forums)}Lojban List{ALINK}
  • Write in Lojban on the {ALINK(aname=>lists,pagename=>Lojbanic Forums)}Lojban List{ALINK}
  • Write something in Lojban (Try to write something new~--~Translations ranslation of literature is not generally a good or easy beginner exercise).
  • Study Lojban vocabulary using LogFlash or flashcards
  • Come to {ALINK(aname=>G5)}LogFest{ALINK} in July/August in Fairfax VA (near Washington, DC), USA.
  • Try expressing yourself in Lojban
  • Invite others to join a live {ALINK(aname=>irc,pagename=>Lojbanic Forums)}IRC chat{ALINK} in or about Lojban
  • Keep a diary in Lojban
  • Check out the Projects and the Committees pages for new and ongoing projects
  • Send money to the {ALINK(aname=>LLG)}LLG{ALINK} using PayPal

HISTORICAL

{ANAME()}H1{ANAME}H1.How was the default {ALINK(aname=>selbri)}selbri{ALINK} determined? (There does not appear to be any rhyme or reason for the order of {ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK}.)

They went through a lot of revisions; it is something in-between

planning and evolution. There is a considerable amount of system there,

but it is ill-documented.

The nice thing to know is that you don't have to memorize the {ALINK(aname=>placestructure)}place structures{ALINK}. Just using the language,

you will come to have a feel for which places are present and in what

order.

Most people who take the time to become familiar with the language find that

with practice, they begin to develop a sense of what the place structures ought

to be. Conveniently, their sense usually matches up with the

definition.

{ANAME()}H2{ANAME}H2.How did the {ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK} get made: discussion, etymology examples?

There is a

gismu Etymology ull set of etymologies on the file server.

There is some explanation available, including amples (broken link),

and a more verbose description in the

evel 0 package and at the Lojban Etymology ojban Etymology Information page.

The etymologies in 6 languages and the scoring for each language are given, in

order Chinese/English/Hindi/Spanish/Russian/Arabic~--~a 0 score means that

the language made no contribution to the word, and thus its etymological

keyword did not matter. The languages were weighted. While new {ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK} are not being made, lojbab updates the weighting based on estimated numbers of

first and second language speakers every couple of years. The original and 1999

weights are available nline.

{ANAME()}H3{ANAME}H3.What is the difference between Loglan and Lojban? How is Loglan-82 related?

James Cooke Brown ( James Cooke Brown CB )

came up with the idea of Loglan in the 1940s and starting inventing the

language around 1955. It has been evolving ever since. In 1982-4 or so

there was a political disagreement and the Loglan community fell apart.

A couple of years later, Bob LeChevalier (lojbab), then working with James Cooke Brown CB,

attempted to resurrect the community. This led to a falling out based on

James Cooke Brown CB's proprietary intellectual property claims on the language. The community

split into two efforts, with James Cooke Brown CB at the head of of the Loglan effort,

{ALINK(aname=>TLI)}The Loglan Institute (TLI){ALINK}, and (lojbab) at the head of the

Lojban effort, the {ALINK(aname=>LLG)}Logical Language Group (LLG){ALINK}. The

latter is Lojban, which {ALINK(aname=>LLG)}LLG{ALINK} (backed up by a court

decision) considers a subcategory of Loglan. Sadly, James Cooke Brown CB passed away in 2000. It is unclear if the Loglan organization has

leadership capable of sustaining the effort. A more lengthy discussion

of the issues can be found in the article

The Loglan-Lojban Dispute, and in {ALINK(aname=>JL)}ju'i lobypli{ALINK} (Attention!

Lojbanic Users).

lojbab makes occasional efforts to spark discussion

that would lead to reunification of the efforts behind Lojban, although no

consideration will be given to abandoning the Lojban baseline.

Loglan-82 is a completely unrelated computer language developed in

Poland by people unaware of the existence of the Loglan/Lojban project.

{ANAME()}H4{ANAME}H4.Why do older Lojban texts (before 1993) not make much sense sometimes?

Lojban has been quite stable since 1992-3, when the last significant

changes were made (since then, most "changes" have been additions to the

language which did not make older text invalid). The last changes to the

{ALINK(aname=>gismu)}gismu{ALINK} list were made in

1992, and in 1993 the {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK} in Lojban word-making.

There is a ranslation table

from the older {ALINK(aname=>rafsi)}rafsi{ALINK} to the final set.

PRONUNCIATION

{ANAME()}B1{ANAME}B1.I'm not quite sure I understand the written descriptions of how the vowels sound.

Here is a link to vowel sound file in Ogg Vorbis format.